Lucifers Hero

Agreed which is why I don't get people thinking #23 is 'overs'.

This one: Spine tingling! Still brings happy tears. Up there with the Watts QB goal for unbridled joy and emotion. Sad to see him go.

I wonder if too much is being made of his injury. Unless North were telling porkies nearly 2 months ago, reports suggest the knee injury wasn't serious: “Ben had an MRI yesterday and was cleared of any ligament damage,” Rawlings said. “He sustained pinching of the lateral knee joint and reported pain and discomfort, but both have subsided." August 7 Report He then had surgery. Detailed report in here: Sept 2 Report This time last year he would be a mid 1st round pick. Not sure the injury downgrades his trade value much lower than #23. Also there may be 'steak knives''/later pick swaps involved.

Nothing in it: Just someone on BF trying to distract posters from the bombshells SOS dropped yesterday.

SEN saying he might stay (not sure how we do that and take Brown). GWS showing new interest in TMac with Cameron's departure. Edit: would be interesting to see how a Preuss/TMac trade could be leveraged to off load all TMac's salary and take a more moderate draft pick in return for the two.

SEN saying he had a medical at the club yesterday. North will ask for our 2nd rnd pick: # 23 But he hasn't said he wants to join us.

The answer lies here: Hogan has a clause that triggers a two-year extension, with a bigger salary, should he play about 45 AFL games during his initial 2019-2021 contract. hogan-s-afl-future-hanging-by-a-thread He has played so few games so far that unless Freo make the finals he can't reach the triggers. The Covid breach seems to be the last straw and they will move him this year if they can.

SEN reporting he is going to the Saints. Some discussion elsewhere that Geelong withdrew their interest after Cameron chose the Cats.

The rules say they should be included in the TPP (unless for approved and declared 'marquee' payments) as it is a form of cheating the salary cap. MFCSS says if we did it, some disgruntled ex-player, ex-official would 'sing' and we would be fined for 'not doing something everyone else does' ala fine for 'not tanking'.

? I was going to 'Like' your post until I saw the last bit.. It would be like an ? for me.

Not saying this about Geelong but there are lots of ways friends of a club can give players benefits: jobs for family members, paid education, free use of sporting/holiday facilities, post footy career jobs, discounts on any number of purchases and services etc etc. All on a handshake of course. Technically they should be caught in the sal cap as '3rd party payments' but not sure if the AFL police them anymore. Suspect clubs would be very good to ensure there is no audit trail.

If GWS force a trade Geelong can use two first round picks and effectively get him 'cheaply'. Geelong have picks 11, 13 and 18/19. They can give 11 and 13 to GWS (which they got on the back Tim Kelly (a 2018 2nd rnd pick #24)). See below. Very astute trading. They were preparing their war chest for 2020 FA's with a few targets in mind (Viney, Crouch and Cameron) so if forced to trade they had the currency. ...The pick swap with GCS was borderline legal but the AFL ok'd it. If they use 11 and 13 it will be 3 players (Cameron, Stephens, Evans) for the original price of Kelly +/- steak knives. They will do even better if they don't use both picks in a Cameron trade. I hope GWS (and Adelaide if Geelong go for Crouch) force trades to soak up those 3 first round draft picks.

Thanks for thoughtful response. Tbh my comment last week was a bit of a throw away line so I was a bit surprised by the pile on. Thought it would derail the thread if I responded so chose not to. Yes, I'm pessimistic at the moment and hope this trade/draft period and Pert's review change that. iirc Coll 1st round 2018 pick was in the high teens having been GF and 2019 pick expected to be similar. Without looking at 'points' our pick 6 was valued very highly by GCS. But I prefer to no to rehash the various trades. Can I leave it by saying I understand where you are coming from and I'm glad people are optimistic. I desperately want you all to be right.

Agreed. So many things go into a decision to change clubs and often $$$ isn't the reason. We could add success, facilities, club strength to the criteria you mention. I just feel that we don't rank highly in the intangibles so have to pay a higher price ($ or picks), which may not be the case. I guess I'm just jealous of big and successful clubs.

Fair enough. Thank you for responding reasonably. I happen to think we aren't a destination club and won't be until we become a 'big' club and start regularly winning finals.

Our big and medium fish: May was well on his way to Collingwood but they couldn't satisfy GCS with draft picks. We could. Like someone else said it was a marriage of convenience coming to us. Saints pulled out of the race for Tomlinson and we were the last option. Lever was our highest paid player when he arrived, reportedly more than other clubs were prepared to pay. The above commentary was in the media at time. People can do their own research and provide evidence that what I've written above is incorrect. I can hear people say: 'do you believe everything you read in the media' cry. The answer is no I don't. Nor do I think that everything they right is fiction. If people pile on that is fine. I can deal with it. I just ask them to do some research before they go full on with the keyboard. And if people just pile on without evidence then I shall choose to not respond. I'm with @Demonland: Sad to admit it but without $$$ or the high draft picks to trade we are not a destination club.

That seems to be the only way we get really good players: outbid other interested clubs with $$$ or picks. I need to get my flak jacket out - the last time I posted something like that there was a huge, negative pile on!

Has chosen Geelong. FA needs to change: Buddy to GF'list Lynch to Premiers Daniher to Prelim team The AFLPA can carry on as much as they like abut the number of players that don't exercise FA or a few go to low teams. But as the above shows the best go to the best teams which just makes them stronger.

Perhaps we aren't the destination club people think we are... Tmac staying?? No takers or we have decided to keep him? iirc the only people who have linked us to Brown are those who see we need a tall fwd, Brown is available so 2+2=5.

Why would he go to the saints instead of us.

Winning finals, in general: Pressure, pressure, pressure Smart coach Tried and true game plan "win the 'key' moments" (according to coaches this week) A balanced team that has top talent on every line. Winning finals by demons: we fall short on most of those. We might be ok at some but 'ok' doesn't win finals. Our team isn't balanced: Most of our top talent is in the midfield. We have a deficient 'spine'. We have 3-4 players at the top AFL level, 2-3 next level players, 3-4 next level, 3 hi potential developing kids and then a lot of (too many) journeymen. Based on the first round of 2020 finals the top 4 teams were awesome with their pressure. Two lost but they are in the GF. To me we are a fair way off the pace of those teams in what I've identified required to win finals.

Apparently Simon Black was in the same room so he would also have been a very fitting presenter. One of the Lions all time greats.

I kept a close eye on the coaches votes and found high consistency in how their 5 and 4 votes were allocated, medium consistency in their 3 vote and a bit of variability with their 2 and 1 votes. As both coaches are voting it is unlikely the overall result would be affected by any 'messaging'. The top 4 players in the Coaches votes were the same players as the top 4 at the Brownlow with spots 2 to 4 being close in both talllies so some minor repositioning.

Top 5: Neale, Cripps, Fyfe, Martin, Dangerfield. I get that Neale and (maybe Cripps) would be short odds but the others are more 'yesterday's heroes'. So, how do the odds work?

Looks like Oliver has bragging rights over Viney for the Brownlow and the AA squad. That should be enough to offset any disappointment at being just a few points behind him in the BnF. 9th is really an amazing effort by Oliver when we had Petracca and Gawn polling well. Hopefully, that quietens the folks on here that have questioned his 2020 performance. Good to see the umpires finally giving him the recognition he deserves.