rjay

Pushing it a bit there, one thing Gysberts wasn't is an elite athlete. Never was, never will be. Slow and no tank means he's not a sprinter or a distance runner and I didn't see him jumping too high. ...and it seems Norths development didn't work either.

His VFL year as an under age player was outstanding so I would think he has a lot of upside.

If we were to trade pick 2, then being in a position to pick up Crouch would work for me.

It's all a bit premature 'Rhino', there's still a bit to play out yet.

He's invested too much in this, but he does need to back off. I thought it was a bit premature last night when they said the Essendon saga was over, it couldn't be at least until the final report comes down. What didn't he understand about interim.

I think we need to wait and see on this 'master', I would be very surprised if we don't land the type of player you are talking about. This is the way Roos has worked in the past, they will be out there and we will identify the ones we want.

A bit different to Griffen (much younger and future captain), but I get your point. I'm not sure that the way Waters is acting isn't Neeld mark II, something not quite right about these Malthouse coaches. ...Montagna is not what we are after.

...and some thought this was over and done with. It's really only starting to get serious now.

I don't think we had an offer on the table, just not interested in a chat anymore.

Neil Craig?

The lesson 'Jack' is to draft best available. You can't draft for needs, this practice always comes unstuck. ...and beware of Barry.

Sad, so much was wrong with this pick and we missed Talia and Carlisle. Looking back at his history, he had an average carnival and wasn't tested at the draft camp because of injury. Slow with no tank and average skills. I wouldn't blame development too much here, North put some weight on him and he still didn't make the grade, we picked the wrong guy. What were you thinking Barry? One thing we need to be careful of is the Geelong stats, same with Toumpas this year. They won't bother with you if they are thrashing you on the scoreboard. You can go get as much ball as you want but you are not having an impact. Fools gold.

You don't know enough about Aish but know that he is overrated and that Dunstan will be a better player??? If you want hard at the ball, tough and clearance machine then it is hands down Crouch, a much better prospect than Dunstan.

I think I've backed up mine fully, you on the other hand have not come up with an instance to back up yours except for stats that don't relate GF's or players that aren't small crumbing forwards. It seems instead that you wish to be condescending.

Nup, Aish is a very good player. We need balance on the list. If we could pick up an Aish or similar and one of these type players but not Martin I would be happy with that.

Roos hasn't offered up pick 2 or even said he would. He's been very cagey on the pick 2 thing, if the right offer, if the value was there etc. Other people have put pick 2 in his mouth re Martin, I don't think it will happen.

Ok mate, so you go on considering Johnson as a small crumbing forward. I'm happy for it to be considered semantic, the guy was their key forward. Nothing desperate here just my opinion that small crumbing forwards are a thing of the past and overrated by many on this site. If I had the choice of Betts or Christiansen, I would take Christiansen he give me more options. By the way I couldn't find one specialist small crumbing forward on the Port goal kicking list.

If they don't win this week I wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer.

Looks like Sydney, Roos the coach and the Cats are simplistic then. LeCras might be a specialist forward (who can also rotate effectively through the midfield) but he is not a specialist small forward. I've asked you to tell me which specialist small crumbing forward has had a major impact in GF's over the last 10 years and you can't, you don't need votes for this. Johnson is not justification at all, he wasn't a small crumbing forward he was there go to FF. Players like Ballintine work up the ground and are very effective not just around goals, him I rate but even he was quiet against Geelong in their last win. Milne, Betts, Garlett, Yarran...don't give much at all apart from goals during the season, they are too easy to put out of the big games. The small crumbing forward is way over rated, give me Stokes, Motlop, Christiansen type who can get plenty of ball up the ground and crumb goals when it's their turn. The specialist is obsolete, that's my point. If you don't agree then you are not watching the same game I am.

...and you just prove my point. They might do well during the year but in big games consistently let you down. It's the nature of the position, it's why they need more than one string to the bow. Forget about the count, they obviously didn't make an impression on you because non of them made an impression on the game. By the way, LeCras is much more than a specialist forward and Johnson whilst small was their key forward target.

I'm not so sure the tiges would agree as his influence still lingers on.

He's definitely one to look at. A bit like Kennedy and McGlinn in that he can't get a regular game, these are the type of players we would be identifying and assessing what their upside is and their likelihood to move.

I don't want Martin at the club, the price is too high. I think he will find it very difficult to find a club that will meet his demands, many are backing away and if you think they would do this because of a media beat up you are misguided. As for Crouch, I would be happy to see us pick him up. He has real mongrel about him, ask his brother.

You can't put Cross into this to make your argument look better, are you in politics? Cross will have nothing to do with trading pick 2 he is in no way related to your scenario. The question is are Adams and the potential of Docherty worth pick 2?

As I simply stated they are a waste of space. Over the last 10 years has a specialist small forward won or come close to winning the Norm Smith, has one of them had a match winning performance in GF's? The last one I remember was Bartlett and even then we are talking about one of the best rovers in the game. No he didn't, he always struggled in the big games. The problem with a specialist small forward is it's to easy to squeeze them out of the game, if they have the ability to work as a mid or further up the ground it's much harder to dull their effectiveness. The Carlton trio are a prime example of this. Milne has always struggled in the big games and it's why Grant Thomas, his former coach never rated him. I think it's more the nature of the position than Milne himself.