Slartibartfast

WB had about 2100 games of experience on the park at an average age of 25.5 years MFC had about 1200 games on the park at an average age of 23.0 years WB midfield (Boyd, Cooney, Cross, Griffen, Higgins, Ward) had about 770 games experience. MFC midfield (Sylvia, Moloney, McKenzie, Trengove, Gysberts, Scully) had about 330 games experience.

I'm outraged, how dare you expect us to support the financial requirements of the site!!!!! You'll have my lifetime subscription today. And if anyone sees any interesting ad sites can they PM me the link (just joking Joyce...)

I know I should let this go but this is exactly my point. The wonderful racial vilification attitude of the vast majority of people has come about through education. People are now aware of it's impacts and the community has decreed, completely appropriately, that it should be unacceptable. People don't realize how offensive the vindictive abuse of players is to players and their families. I'm telling you that the abuse handed out to players is not the equivalent of "pesky shoplifter" and has the potential to affect people very significantly. Often the ones that are affected are family and close friends. I see DA's point that perhaps this isn't the place to bring this up but I see it differently. This is exactly the spot because vilification is wrong because of the impact it has on the person being vilified whether that person or his associates are offended. I"ve not a single problem discussing a players football ability. If a player is poor below his knees, lacks awareness, doesn't make good decisions or whatever that is what footy forums are for. But the personal vindictive abuse that is continually thrown at players (it used to be Bruce and is now Morton) is unacceptable. Personal vindictive abuse is not "pesky shoplifting" it's "malicious armed robber", hence the relevance to this thread. Anyway I'll drop it now and hope that some at least have considered the point.

I've had experiences with players parents who have been dreadfully upset by the vindictive negativity of fan forums towards their sons. I know that the abuse Brent Grgic received had a significant impact on his confidence and desire to play footy. The vilification of Brent Grgic on this site and others was the lowest form of cowardice and bulling I've seen and just as bad if not worse than a "one off" incidence of racial vilification. In my mind abuse is abuse. Racial abuse is unacceptable, religious abuse is unacceptable and I don't understand how people, who can so clearly see how wrong these forms of abuse are can get on this forum and think it's quite proper, their "right" in fact, to vilify football players, umpires and officials. I don't defend racial abusers, I just think the same principles apply to all.

To me abuse is abuse and is unacceptable, whether it be racial, religious or personal. It's totally unacceptable. I just don't understand why others find one acceptable and the other not.

I just love the way we abhor racial vilification but accept as "freedom of speech" the abuse we hand out to our own players and coaches. I just don't get it.

Is this the one Redleg. Hope to catch up soon. Cheers Fan http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jordan-gysberts-key-to-melbournes-engine-room/story-e6frf9jf-1226081585751

Agree. He's having a rest.

Just a word of warning people. A persons identity is irrelevant to the point they debate. It is not made legitimate or otherwise based on who they are or what other name, if any, they have posted under. Stick to the topic. Thanks

Fantastic posts Jack and Redleg, you've isolated the arguments and now the club must decide. I'm confident they will be receiving a lot of advice. Unlike many here who see this issue as black or white there are many aspects to this decision and it must be considered at many levels. IMO we've shown faith to Jack and the playing group by appealing in the first case and now we just need to make a hard headed business decision. I don't know what that decision should be but there is no point appealing if we don't think we can win. As Jack says, this isn't about right or wrong it's about what the law says. BTW Redleg, thanks for the opening post, I couldn't agree more about the 4 minute business. Surely they just wanted to get home because a group of 3 intelligent men, knowing the scrutiny this decision would get, would have the sense to wait 15 minutes even if they had already made their decision.

Thanks Pringle, really appreciate the updates.

I've deleted comments by Hannabal and WYL because they were directed at each other. Guys I share your frustration and fury, like you I thought tonight was inexcusable, but you posts were for each other and not a "general comment". I accept that there are probably 100 posts that should be deleted on that basis but I'm not going to read all that is posted tonight, I'd just be too depressing. Hope you understand why I deleted your posts. In total frustration and disillusionment, Fan

You must have missed his thread calling for Morton to be traded. I agree with just about all of what you've said but I still hold hopes for Bennell. He just needs to get the ball.....

I had the good fortune to work with Peter on occasions - he was a gentleman, great company and a passionate Melbourne supporter who contributed very significantly to the Club. RIP Peter, you will be sadly missed. My thoughts are with his family and friends. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/98225/default.aspx

Let it go, you've had your say. Joeboy has been posting the three word analysis of games for years. It's not easy as you can see when others try and do it. It's not offended for years, it's not an issue now. Thanks Fan

Tasteless.

Enough "Troll" discussion. Keep to the topic, thanks. Fan

Enough guys, give it a rest. Thanks Fan

I've just spent 15 minutes removing posts where posters have not adhered to our requests re appropriate comments and protocols. Please read the following: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15 If you have a problem with a post REPORT IT TO THE MODERATORS, don't take it into your own hands and don't debate issues regarding moderation in a thread. Remember - moderators are posters like you, we are not permanently viewing the forums and so inappropriate comments can be displayed for a period of time. I'm not going to send a personal message to those that posted inappropriately but take the deletion of your posts as a warning. This thread is closed and when more is known another can be started.

Please remember this and observe it, thanks. With the start of the footy season just round the corner the moderating team thought we'd outline the approach we will take this season. Demonland is a footy discussion forum designed for the enjoyment of its members who want to discuss all things Demon and all things footy. It provides us with an opportunity to express our opinions, vent our feelings and chat with others of similar interest. The site has been created in support of the club and the players. That doesn't preclude criticism if valid and warranted but does mean that we will not accept posts that go beyond the bounds of fair comment about the club or the players. Whilst we know that footy is a game that evokes passion and that passion on occasions moves some of us to express our views inappropriately it is imperative that common sense prevail and respect for our Football Club, our players and the people that post here be maintained. Please keep in mind that Demonland membership is available to everyone and that ANY member of the public can view its contents. People who read this forum can range from law enforcement agencies checking on the legality of comments to very young children wanting to find information on the Demons. You MUST post remembering this and post accordingly or your rights to post will be removed. If you see a post that frustrates you remember: 1. Everyone is entitled to express an opinion but with that entitlement goes responsibility to observe the code of conduct and use common sense. 2. That the person whose post you think is "outrageously stupid" can be anyone from the law enforcement agency to the youngest of supporters. 3. That there is no place on this forum for personal abuse of other posters. This is a zero tolerance requirement. 4. Player abuse is the most difficult area to moderate. Whilst we do not want to stifle player comment and criticism player abuse is NOT acceptable. Comments should be constructive and not destructive. Comments such as "player X is useless" or "player X is crap" are NOT acceptable. Comments such as "player X would need to improve to stay on our list" or "player X was poor today because ...." are acceptable. Common sense will be your best guide here but if you think something is marginal don't say it. 5. As moderators we do our best to moderate fairly and maintain the posting environment of the forum but we are volunteers and provide our time as and when we are able to. No moderator will read every post, moderators will view situations differently and some will have more time than others to explain their moderating decisions to members. 6. With this in mind please understand it is not possible for the moderating team to provide absolute consistency. Some things will slip through where they shouldn't and the same thing might be moderated on one day but not the next. Please don't see this as the moderator condoning inappropriate comments. If something happens that you feel should be dealt with send a PM to the mod team and it will be considered. Do NOT take matters into your own hands. 7. Also please understand that moderating a forum such as this takes a lot of time and it is not always possible to send explanatory messages to offenders. Accordingly many posts will be moderated without explanation. 8. Where a moderator is involved in discussion on a thread with another person and moderation is required, it is appropriate that a different moderator determines the issue which should therefore be referred to another moderator for determination. Enjoy the season everyone and enjoy this forum. Remember the site is for EVERYONES enjoyment and you will be asked to respect that and adhere to the simple guidelines outlined above.

I wonder if there were any like me who couldn't make up their minds between Morabito and Trengove after the Carnival (although I favoured Morabito). Lucky Jack played well in SA although to be honest the footy recruiting blokes see these blokes lots and lots of times whereas we are just very amateur observers. I for one was disappointed when we took Frawley instead of Sellar in 2006 ND but what a relief. Thanks Craig.

Got it in 1 for me Demonwithin, thanks for the report.

OK, a number of posters have had their warning bar increased as a result of inappropriate posts and a number of posts have been deleted or amended. From what I can see in this thread YM has merely made a football comment and has received in reply a bunch of inappropriate responses. If you don't like what he says debate the issue, don't make personal comments. I refer you to the pinned thread on the moderation guidelines. Repeat offenders will be banned very quickly. The rules are very simple people, stick to football and don't post personal attacks. It's your choice - if you want to personally attack someone you'll be penalized. Remember - if you've got a problem report it, don't attack another poster. Thanks http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19129

The Melbourne teams of that era were terrible although we had some good players during that time like Alves, Hardeman and Wells. As you know one champion player doesn't take a team from last to finals and Flower couldn't either. You might be right about Flower appearing greater in hindsight but I've some footage of Flower and I reckon the nearest player I can liken him to is Hird. Few would argue Davey is in Hird's class. The other thing about Davey is at present he hasn't performed over a sustained period which I think is a non negotiable part of being labeled a "champion". If Davey plays like he did last year for the next 4 his stocks will rise immeasurably. Nobody is knocking Davey, it's just recognizing Flower's unique talent and ability.

Flower was a Champion because he performed at a very high standard over a long period of time in all company. He was State captain and was an automatic State selection. He was brilliant overhead, could win his own ball, kick equally well on both feet and had evasive skills rarely seen. Had he played in a dominant team he'd be far more highly recognized but he stands comfortably on the same stage with the greats of his era. Davey has had one or two good seasons, never won AA selection and is very limited in what he can do on a footy field compared to Flower. Whilst Davey is a good player he isn't in the same league as Flower and I doubt many who saw Flower in the 70's and early 80's would disagree.