Slartibartfast

Thanks GK. Your comments about "forgetting" how good he was last year are pertinent, perhaps I need to go and look at some of last years tapes. I'm quite happy to back others opinions of him, they have much more knowledge than me. Not long now anyway and regardless of the decision I reckon the "usual suspects" can keep this thread going for another year or to with "I told you so" justifications. RR thanks for your comments but for the record I think they are rot. There is one group reportedly having offered $1 mil for five years and another offering more than any other third year player will ever have been paid. People don't do that unless they have faith in the product. But I'm happy for you to believe what you want to believe and I'm really not interested in conspiracy theories or debates. Thanks

They still can can't they because even if Casey lose to PM next week they have the double chance which will give McDonald, Fitzy et al all the opportunity they need to experience what you're talking about. To me the concept of Fitzy knocking back a game with MFC to play with Casey is absurd and if that was his attitude I'd question his desire to play AFL footy. I accept you and I will differ on this.

I actually think you're being harsh. I think Beamer gives the same level of commitment each week but he's just not that good and when he is tagged or plays on someone better than him he just gets beaten. He's perhaps the most consistent player in our team. He wins when he should and he gets beaten when you expect him to. He'd make a terrific 3 or 4th mid in another team but he's just not good enough to be number one.

Thanks, was that to you personally or was it public (radio, tv). I must say I've been completely underwhelmed by Tom since he's come to the club but there could be a thousand reasons for his poor form. What I do know is that if GWS and MFC are fighting so hard for him and offering him so much money there are some very smart footy people prepared to back him and consider him a very short priced favourite to become elite.

Is this based on your observations or something more concrete?

If he plays AFL next week he can't play Casey finals AFAIK. I agree he is in our best 22 so it will be interesting to see what they do. For the future Fitzy, Gawn, Davis and Lawrence showed some great signs yesterday. Casey were really good and it was great to see Kyle Matthews back, he brings so much to the team.

Well we are going over well worn ground but the issue is our good mature players aren't that good. Green, Moloney, Sylvia and Davey who should be providing a bit of grunt, particularly through the midfield are just ordinary footballers. Green has wrung the most anybody could have reasonably expected out of his ability. That he is now being vilified by supporters is depressing and shows how little they understand. Davey has never been someone who could lead when things got tough. Moloney is another "Green", but he's younger and given a tag free opportunity can play well. But for all his possessions he rarely hurts the opposition which is why he's a good ordinary footballer and not an top notch A grader. And Sylvia is just too inconsistent to be a top liner but his best is probably our best. Jamar has been injured since Adelaide (he doesn't seem to be able to jump at the moment) and for me Rivers has been our best mature player. People don't give credit to our defense. It goes in there quickly and regularly and it's not surprising that at times it just breaks open.

Your problem is you haven't managed your expectations. Everyone is very happy to buy into a "rebuilding" process but nobody realises how long 4 to 5+ years is, and that is how long this one will take (oh, and I'm not saying I understood either). And we started from as low a base as anyone. Carlton took from end of 2003 to now to go from hopeless to good. In the 2003 draft they took Walker at pick 2 and along the way they've picked up a once in a decade footballer. I have a very simple barometer. It says games and ages will tell you where you should finish on the ladder adjusted for skill. We are in the bottom 3 for games and ages but we will finish well out of the bottom 3 which indicates skill. (and yes, I know other things will impact, this is a blunt tool). So by my reckoning we've had a good season with some dreadful characteristics none worse that the thrashings we've had. They are what have killed the season for me. I'd have been happy with 8 to 10 wins but the size of the thrashings and the inept conduct of the Board over the last month have turned a good development year into a trial. And unless we pick up some mature midfielders next year will be a steady progression, not a quantum leap. Prepare yourself!!

Moloney and Jones are 182 and 180 respectively. Bartel 187, Corey 191, Ling 189 paved the way for Selwood and Ablett. Pendlebury 191 and Judd 189 are about the best in the business. And Jones and Moloney are "good ordinary footballers" and at their height they can't impact against bigger bodies. Neither is quick. And Jones doesn't play midfield really, he plays wing (and yes, there is a difference). We need blokes that "take space" and are strong enough to hold position and block for the likes of S.... sorry. Our blokes aren't. I think McNamara 190 has been successful at Casey because he can do just this and we'll see if he can do it Sunday. Grimes 187, Gysberts 190 and McKenzie 186 are our hopes here but are all are injury prone and are young and inexperienced. This year our midfield have been smashed because we lack size and strength and are very inexperienced. Our success is linked to our midfield. I think if you stuck a decent engine in between our forward and back line and we'd be knocking on the door of the top 5 because a decent midfield would make the forward and back lines so much better. I just don't see why people don't realize that its as simple as the midfield. And unless we "get" something from somewhere for next year we will see gradual improvement not the quantum leap many expect. Just look at the difference Cox, Kerr, Embley and Shoey have made to WC this year. As someone once said "It's the midfield, stupid".

How's the diet going. I have to wait until the end of our season. I'm not looking forward to Monday week. I've skipped a lot of the "woe is me" posting but I'm afraid you're in for more pain. Until our midfield becomes mature and competitive I think we are in for more of the same next year. We desperately need to find a mature good midfielder but I can't see one. Grimes might be the answer if he can stay fit. That is my main hope.

It's very good.

Many thanks, works well (as far as I can see) and is very easy (must be if I can do it!!).

Was Watts in his Melbourne footy gear when he did the ad or just civies?

So what happens if Clarkson (as he surely will) and Lyon decline our offer and Eade has been snapped up by Adelaide? Will we then recast the panel because we will be left to choose "newbies". That will be a good look, not. But it will be in keeping with the performance of the Board since the Geelong weekend which has been nothing short of shambolic. Very strange. And what if both Clarkson and Lyon want it? Who on that panel has the experience to make an informed judgement. Very strange indeed.

This panel worries me. Has anyone noticed that not one member has ever coached a game of AFL footy. Apart from Lyon who had a brief stint 10 or more years ago there is not one person who has been involved in preparing a team for a game of football. How will this lot know what questions to ask when they've not got this experience? How will they evaluate applicants football strategies? Don't kid yourselves that being a football commentator gives you the necessary knowledge. The game has changed so much Garry's knowledge is only slightly more relevant than Ron Barassi. Roos or Neil Craig would have been my choices as outside consultant and if we couldn't land one of them perhaps Matthews. If we don't get an established coach with a proven track record it will be like having a hat full of names and just picking one. Oh, and Cameron Schwab is CEO, the coach is a senior appointment to the club reporting, ultimately, to the CEO. Of course he should be on the panel.

I'm in no position to judge Robbie and I genuinely mean that. I'm not debating Bailey's sacking, I'm merely asking what has happened since to "vindicate" it. I didn't expect any more wins this year than we've achieved but I did expect to be much more competitive in the games we've lost. Disappointingly we've not picked off a "good" side (Essendon were playing terribly when we played them) but we've not lost a game I thought we should win until yesterday. I've no issue with Bailey being sacked, people much more qualified than me make that call, but the process was a shambles and if the same people who were in charge of that are in charge of picking the new coach I'm not filled with confidence. Pants I hear what you're saying about the draw but I was just trying to point out that it wasn't a "soda". WC were considered two wins at the beginning of the season, it would have been nice to pick off WB or Saints but we played WB when they were playing their best footy and we were seriously injured when we played Saints (and North). The size of the loses is the most concerning thing but I repeat "what has happened since Bailey's sacking that vindicates it"? That's all I'm asking.

Can you explain what has happened since Bailey's sacking that "vindicates" the Boards decision to act swiftly? We've lost every game since and lost to a team Bailey beat just a few weeks ago. I've seen nothing tangibly different. The draw was favourable? There are 5 teams that seem to be clearly ahead of the rest. We have played them 8 times. We play 22 games and less that 8 we have 14 "winnables". We've played 12 and won 7.5 with 2 possibles to come. We were also forced to play 4 games in 18 days and I don't think any other team had to do that. The only advantage I can see in our current position is that we are now in a position to seek a new coach but the process to get to that point was shambolic, undignified and atrociously timed and managed.

TTP and TimD, please leave the personal abuse and put downs to PM's. Thanks

I don't intend to get into a slanging match but I'd point out that at no stage did I suggest Lyon's comments were wrong and at no stage have I commented on Green's leadership. I have not commented on the Clubs leadership on field or off in this thread. I pointed out that Jimmy and Brad delivered the same message. I pointed out Lyon has a conflict of interest.

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne? Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club. Lyon wasn't.

Oh for heavens sake, Jimma said he was proud of the effort, it's clearly the company line. Time to get off Brad's back. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/120369/default.aspx

Sorry to take so long removing this topic guys but you'll be pleased to hear that "Nick" has received all the force a mod can muster. Shame it wasn't Nasher, he could probably have done better!!

You were NOT banned for holding the view, you were banned for not adhering to the site owners request that Tom not be called a liar. The fact is that we do not know what the situation is and calling Tom a liar is a serious accusation, not a fact. Demonland does not want to be part of that accusation. It's pretty simple really.

A number of posts have been deleted because they questioned Tom's honesty which is in direct contravention of Demonland's wishes. This topic is off limits at the request of the owner of the site. Second offenses will result in posters being suspended.

I've had the unfortunate experience of now reading, or at least scanning, much of this new Tom thread and am sick of having to edit and delete posts that contain personal abuse or insults to other posters. And yes, I will have missed some. Keep to topic please (although how you've got the energy I don't know). If I see posts with personal abuse they will be deleted even if is a fleeting reference and they make a good point in the rest of their offering. Thanks