DeeSpencer

If your definition of amazing is shameful then I agree.We thought we had talents in Wonaeamirri and Jurrah but the move to Melbourne and a decent dose of bad luck (family tragedy in both cases) put pay to them. We spent pick 1 and pick 12 on Watts and Cook as mobile tall forward options for the future, one's a b grade half back flanker with some potential, the other is out the door. Other stop gaps like Dunn and Bate couldn't ever get anywhere near consistent enough. It's not all negative though, I think Clark and Dawes are both very good value selections and I think what is effectively a straight swap of Pedersen in for Martin is a very good move as well. I also think we'll start to get some production out of Bail, Blease, Tapscott and Jetta over the next year or so as they have enough ability to produce consistently if they get their bodies right. I'm pretty sure we'll have a forward line that could hold its own but the quality of the midfield just lets it down. As for the rest of the team I wish we could leave Grimes on a half back flank because then our young backline has a bit more strength to it. If Viney and pick 4 can actually take on good opponents (even if only playing spurts in the midfield) then Trengove, Jones, McKenzie and Sylvia might actually keep us in games and let Grimes play HBF. The afl.com.au lists Rodan as our sub but now that we've got him I really think if he could play consistently at near his best he could actually be one of our most important players next year. It's kind of sad that a port reject could become one of our top 3 midfielders.

Magner and Howe tweeting about a 3k time trial this am Anyone sneak a look?

Tall defenders: Frawley, McDonald, Watts and Garland with Sellar +/- Davis for depth. Tall forwards: Clark, Dawes, Hogan Ruck/Forwards: Pedersen, Fitzpatrick Rucks: Jamar, Spencer, Gawn To me we've got a big man department that is now ready to go and compete with most teams. There is still heaps of development left in it as well with Hogan up forward, Gawn in the ruck and Watts and Davis down back. If there was one criticism from the trade period it would be that I would have loved to keep Rivers to give Tom McDonald some cover down back for 1 more year. Instead now I really hope Watts makes the third tall defender spot his own over preseason. He'll never been the strongest but if he can use his speed and skill and get physical enough as a defender he can be the class that we need from half back. Eventually I see Grimes rejoining the backline as well. Maybe with the addition of Rodan we could do that next year. What we've sacrificed to a degree is the midfield. But I think Neeld didn't want to just bring in 3 top line midfielders and then for them to have no structure and no leadership and not reach their potential. It might have been poor recruiting but I think development has also been the difference between us rolling out a midfield with Scully, Trengove, Morton and Gysberts all ready to go. For whatever reason we've lost 3 of them. This time we'll still bring in 2 quality mids with pick 4 and Viney and now they have young leaders in Grimes, Trengove and Jones to show them the way. The addition of Byrnes and Rodan is a simple tactic to say to the likes of Tapscott and Blease as well as pick 4 and Viney that you can have these spots in the team as outside mids/rotating forwards but you have to earn them.

Whoever gave Morton a two year deal last year was a fool, but then again since we've been able to move him on after a bad year I suppose it was a good move. If he had got good in 2012 it would've looked like a good plan.

Couldn't be worse than our last over the hill port pickup. Strange that we get rid of moloney only to bring in another forward running midfielder

Case for; Given we just lost Rivers we don't have a real surplus of defenders and he's a nice size, very fit and a good kick. If he can add weight and learn to defend he's got a future. Case against: Already have Frawley, McDonald, Watts, Sellar and maybe even Davis ahead of him as key defenders, how many do you need. Whilst he can run and kick there have been questions over his courage in the air and physicality defending. I think he's got a lot more potential than Couch who I don't think is AFL grade.

Regardless of whether he's 90kg or mobdily obese at 190kg I think despite the vision he moves more like Jake Spencer than Buddy Franklin and he doesn't look like a super strong mark. I'm not convinced he'd make it at AFL level.

Conspiracy theory....but: Whenever Sydney player gets injured AFL looks to change rules in order to make the game in Sydney stay appealing for the mums who potential move their kids from the nasty dangerous rugby league to the nice friendly no injury AFL. Will happen even more if a GWS player goes down.

Dunn v Joel Macdonald, surely only room for one of them, if we keep Rivers then probably room for neither. Who would you keep. One can kick one can't. One can do something in the air, put his head over the ball and win the ball on the ground. It's 50/50 I'd say but I think Neeld will probably lean towards Macdonald.

I think your gonna need a bigger boat

The knees one is interesting. For mine a trip is a trip, if you slide through someone with your body or if you grab a leg if you take the legs out from someone it's a trip. But if you start paying 'forceful contact' what does that mean. If on a wet day a player gathers the ball then slips over and just happens to bump into someone below the knee is that all of a sudden forceful contact? Number 2 is fine. The bounce is old fashioned rubbish that makes sense as a nice little treat in the middle but around the ground becomes a waste. The only thing I hope for is that they teach the umpires to actually throw the ball up high enough so it becomes a proper ruck duel. Number 3 is interesting. I'll see how it pans out. What I want for the ruck is a fair contest between technique, size, strength and athleticism. All different types of ruckmen should get a chance as long as they are playing the ball and playing fair. So if you are stronger than the other bloke you should get a chance to use it. I hope the umps umpire it a bit like a rugby scrum. They say no contact, separate the rucks then go to throw it up. I don't want the off the ball umpire pulling out tiny free kicks based on the ball not yet leaving the umpires hand when the ump has already started his throwing motion.

Strauss Frawley Garland Nicholson McDonald Watts Viney Jones Grimes Sylvia Dawes Howe Blease Clark Pedersen Jamar McKenzie Trengove Tapscott Byrnes Dunn Sub: Pick 4 Emer: Magner Davey Jetta Bail Sellar Davey Ray* Tynan Taggert I hope we do the deals that we've been planning - Rivers out if we can't keep him, Pedersen and Dawes in and Farren Ray in is an interesting one. I'm sure Neeld will be keen to play Ray and Byrnes if he gets them over because otherwise why would you bother? But it puts pressure on the likes of Bail, Blease and Tapscott to hold their spots. Whilst I'm sure our midfield depth will be much improved this year and the likely Viney/Wines combo hopefully adds 2 stars of the future we will rely on depth much more than talent next year.

Bail was great that day. Our small defenders remain a point of concern. Do you play Garland small where he's got speed and is reasonably accountable but also has a habit of going third man up and not influencing a contest or can we get Strauss fit an in form or can Nicholson improve his accountability. What about the wildcards in Watts, Dunn or Tynan for small defensive regular spots.

He might still have an elite tank (although he's been injured throughout preseason) and a beautiful kick but neither of those attributes are super vital alone to playing CHF where you need strong mark, physical and reads the play. I'd keep him for a defender if we didn't have an overload of players doing the same thing - Watts, Selllar, Dunn, McDonald.

Blease is more AFL ready though. Put him in a good team with forward 50 entries, get him chasing as he started to learn how to do and he could hold a spot in a top side even been inconsistent. Gysberts just looks both close to AFL but a mile off. He can win the ball and his usage can be very good by hand and decent by foot but he's so far off the physical side to compete with inside midfielders and his lack of speed means he really can't play any other position. He reminds me in a funny way of Juice Newton - here is a guy whos very good at his one trick at VFL level, put him in a bad AFL team and against good opposition and he's rubbish because he lacks other tricks. For Newton it was playing FF in the VFL for Gysberts its playing inside midfield. The first step is always to get the body ready to compete because then you give yourself a fighting chance. It took Juice the best part of a decade to fill out a bit and by then he was really not going to develop any more. If Gysberts does a preseason and has some weight on and most importantly has top line endurance and has some power in his game then he'll probably do enough at AFL to hold a spot and then develop. Eventually in a perfect world Grimes plays back and Sylvia, Howe and Trengove probably play on spurts through the inside midfield spots leaving Jones and McKenzie as the only pure centre square established players we have but even then Gysberts has to prove he's a cut above Magner, Viney, pick 4 to get himself a game.

I think we should stay positive and realise that the surgeons are getting better and better and that Clark is recovering well. And yes if Dawes and Hogan become KPF stars and Petersen is a gun back up ruck then maybe Clark can switch back to been an AA quality first ruck. I think we should wait at least until we secure Dawes and Petersen.

Wings his worst position. He spuds it up in the backline and the forward line. At least when he's in the midfield you can say oh poor Cale that big bodied AFL midfielder was too good for you or when he's down back you say don't worry that forward pressure was a lot so no wonder you kicked it straight to the other team.When he jogging up and down the wing rocking up clangers it just gets worse.

In: Byrnes, Hogan, Barry, Viney, pick 4, pick 20, 2 more draft picks, Cam Pedersen or Dawes (would prefer Pedersen), Nicholson (rookie upgrade) Out: Martin (trade), Moloney, Green, Jurrah, 6 others My pick for the 6: Bartram, Bate, Cook, Morton, Petterd, Davis Happy to see Joel Macdonald, Bennell and Spencer go as well but for varying reasons I think they will stay. Obviously if Rivers walks then there is space for one more to stay. I have my fears about the ability for us to move Morton on. At this stage with us going Hogan I think Gysberts might be worth a one year deal, if not we should look to trade him for something of value.

I'd love to keep Rivers. He's a pro. He knows every defensive trick in the book when it comes to body work and spoiling and I think as good as McDonald can be he'd be much better alongside Rivers. I'm sure Frawley feels the same. Start your defense with those 3 and you actually start to nullify teams in the air if you have a midfield that can compete. All of a sudden your small defenders improve as well. Keeping experienced and quality talent is so important for rebuilding and whilst some of Rivers' traits are annoying I bet young demons players appreciate his courage and his experience come game day.

Lining up on grand final day...Paul Puopolo or Mitch Morton, one was going to be a premiership player. We need guys like Bail and top sides do to. However not only his kicking but his running to get the ball, his chasing, his marking all has to improved for the sake of the team. If we are a top 8 team and Bail is competing with more skilled players like Blease and Tapscott for a half forward spot then that will be a good day. Byrnes comes into the side this year for the exact reason to keep the competition tough for small forward with midfield rotation ability. I'd like to see him get more time on the wing and the odd tagging role as well. Playing forward for Melbourne week in week out isn't an easy gig.

Some players sulked when they got dropped from Melbourne's leadership group. Actually correction, they all sullked. And that's why they wont be at the club next year.

Why won't Gold Coast or GWS bid on Daniher? Isn't he the next big thing. Oh and remember, Viney doesn't have to be the 3rd best player in the draft for us to take him at 3, just the 4th best

If it helps get Caddy and Dawes I'd be happy but we have to make sure we don't throw all the draft picks getting them. As for free agents who are all >26 I'd rather save the cash and wait a few years until we are top 4 or pushing top 4 and then have a go. I'd almost say Essendon are going too hard too early in getting Goddard except they really did need another midfielder.

Maric, Grigg, Houli - all young and on the improve, forced out of decent teams as they weren't getting the games but still at an age that improvement with regular game time wasn't unexpected. Burns, Ray etc, past their best and whilst potential will add leadership they wont be long term success. Now I certainly think its reasonable to get a few in as we have absolutely zero leadership left if Rivers goes (Davey our oldest players then a huge gap) but I hope we still trim down the list low enough to get young guys in. And I'd still look for someone to be our Houli/Grigg/Guera at Hawthorn etc.

How is this thread still going. Imagine Galea up against Darren Glass, do you think he has a hope in hell out bodying him? Then the ball hits the ground, who's going to be first to swoop and pick it up, it won't be Galea.