Engorged Onion

Great acknowledgement there @deanox - the subtleties and nuance of playing your role (vs merely playing on your man, which feels as though you need to think about less) is immense from a cognitive perspective. But also being able to contextualise it to what is happening around you. Now, I don't subscribe to the fact that one error (or even multiple errors) are indicative of the talent of a player - if structures break down up the field (ie: workrate) - then it makes your job so much harder as there is very little pressure applied to the person delivering the ball. As you said here, the problem is essentially if a ball is being delivered easily, it's not the defenders fault, it never was - the fault has already occurred and they're doing their best to remedy it. I would give my left (anatomically correct spelling of 'nut') to have some decent tactical commentary when I watch a game, how it is not a legitimate part of calling the game really upsets me. I also understand the need to appeal to the lower denominator who are viewing... making it 'palatable' -but its to the detriment of the knowledge of the broader communities understanding of the mechanics of the game. I also understand that quite literally in my life time (another 40 years or so hopefully) it will not change. (which feeds me into my only broad stab here, that the conversation in this thread, the depth and richness ALSO seems to interest only some people, whilst others continue their black and white statements in other threads, and thank gawd for that).

Correct - happy to invest in Petty. reliable kicking, pace and endurance - (the holy trinity??) is what we/all clubs need.

I don't normally overtly bleat about umpiring, but I watched the first quarter yesterday - granted I was looking only for Melbourne free kicks paid or not paid, jeez I felt there were a lot of holding the balls not paid, a lot of tackles around the neck slipping down not paid, and even some marks not paid. Is it my bias...seriously, or are the rules not rules, just interpretations these days?

Best thread on here - and loving the fact that is analytical, in depth and free of personal grievances.

Well @binman, if that strategy proves to be correct - May, Rivers, Salem and Omac to get 3 goals a piece then, pinging in from the 50m arc. Omac can kick 50 off a step right? Right!

When I think of Trent, I think of him, on the field, from a first person lens looking down field 100 metres away in the forward 50 arc, seeing ol' mate Jacko's head (chariots of fire style), bounding joyously towards a perfectly placed lace out 55m bullet off the right for the next decade. Time and time and time and time again And it brings a warm glow to my soul

A broad few questions for those upset that we lost the midfield. Is it ok to lose clearances, and win the game? Is it ok to lose clearances from time to time throughout the season ever? Does it mean that there are systemic problems? Is it meaningful from a belief, structure, effort perspective, that we lost the midfield and won the game? Signed Perplexed.

Help me understand why some people need to keep referencing this, each and every time we play the Saints? Will the thread re open next time we play them? Help me understand why on earth I felt the need to comment on this? Ridiculous for me to do so.

Players aren't allowed to make errors. Because you know... just cause. Plenty of moments to redeem himself.

Fitness (and the existential dread of missing finals) will hopefully come to the fore and the midfield will pick up #no excuses (with apologies to @Sir Why You Little)

I know you're been playful here - but it's not Woo woo - it's as if genuinely feeling your strong uncomfortable feelings is problematic in certain contexts! Not when there is death or grief as an example...but on the football field, well THAT's problematic (i say with a rye smile) - only because coaches, players, etc have it culturally embedded not to show 'weakness' whatever version of weakness that is. I once said to a premiership player what would it be like for your entire team to genuinely accept the fact that football, and finals campaigns was arduous, and at times anxiety provoking, and it could be spoken about ie: pre game in the rooms Have a read through these two vignettes - is there a different vibe? P1: How you feeling? P2 : Pretty anxious mate! P1: Yeah , I get it, that makes sense, well, have your anxiety and go out and smash it vs P1: How you feeling? P2 : Pretty anxious mate! P1: [censored] mate, harden up, dont worry about it, you'll be fine Id argue there is a marked difference, in how P2 would have felt Anyway, the players response to me was "it would have been liberating" If you're all on the same page (power structures from captains who talk about their anx) about the emotional reality of being under scrutiny week after week, then all of a sudden, the emotion (in this case anxiety) becomes less problematic in of itself.

From experience in a previous life, reflective practice has looked a bit like this. Players will go and look at vision with their line coach where they made errors...Im dumbing down a bit but... Coach: "What happened here" Player: " I don't know, or, I made an error" ? Ok, next time do x, y z, let's work on that this week P ""ok" Or In a group environment - when the debrief is on, players don't necessarily want to shame themselves, so don't admit to anxiety, or not wanting to make errors...which of course means, they're not reflecting, and processing, to then become aware of when it shows up next time..(this is anecdotal evidence.) So in some sense, the process in the football club is still a bit... "you [censored] up, what can you do differently next time (behaviourally), ok go practice it" Now Richardson's response could have been a straight bat to a question in a public sphere, and they really DO drill down into sense making - so yes CQI (which i have no idea about as a measurement tool) would be an apt analogy I am big on how the subtlety of language effects accountability - and the notion of 'we're off a bit' to me is diminishing what responsibility you can take irrespective of how you feel, but also the cultural lexicon of football clubs that 'this happens'. Which is true, you cannot have a team at the peak throughout the year...but as a tool of explanation, is not deep enough. @binman, id PM you some other information re: the bolded bit, but alas, you have no PM.

100% it's mindfulness. It's often taught to calm down/relax. But this is problematic as it teaches experiential avoidance. What's the nature of sport? It's uncomfortable, we know it intellectually, but when the experiences arise (anxiety, fatigue etc) - we don't necessarily want to have it, and we engage in internal or external behaviours that move us away from what's useful. Essentially, if you don't know where you head is at, you've got no capacity to bring your attention back on to the relevant task at the time. That's the notion of performance consistency - its not about NOT getting caught up in things, you will, but noticing that you are to bring you attention back time and time and time and time again, irrespective of what is showing up...and shortening the gap of how much time you are NOT aware of what you're getting caught up in. Then it starts to feel easier, and you are executing, and as a consequence, feeling better, more confident, and the upwards spiral.

So this is how I would work through point one - in an elite environment (yeah sounds arrogant I know) The bolded part in point one - should be asked post game/review any way. But, link it to metrics that are typically gathered. More importantly is understanding the gap between what the metrics show and what it felt like...and its never because someone is 'weak minded' Questions like - why did it feel a particular way, what made it harder, what made it easier at times etc. That exploration allows the individual to reflect, make sense and most importantly choose action 'next time' when they're fatigued, or feel they cannot be arsed, for what ever reason is showing up for them...'the vibe' of the day, feeling anxious, not wanting to [censored] up etc It's a much more important to understand (oh oh! Values work coming up here) - what the individual wants to stand for, and how do their efforts (behaviours) move them towards and away from that ideal. It's easy to act in line with your values when you are comfortable (Oliver running away from packs) vs when you are not (dinky handballs) - but the key from any psychological perspective - is to be aware of your discomfort as its occuring, and choose the more useful action... then of course, when it pays off, it becomes easier and easier to replicate. Essentially, if you don't know what your thinking, you've got no choice over your behaviours - particularly when the stress and pressure is on. The only reason ANYONE is willing to have anxiety, fatigue etc, is in service of what matters.... Know your values, be more consistent when it counts not just when its easy, because you're more willing to do the uncomfortable behaviour (which is often the most useful). ie: A consistent follow through on your kick, when you are 30metres out, yet your brain is telling you not to [censored] up - so you either - try to 'guide it through' or kick too hard, just to get the act over and done with, to remove your anxiety. Another example - particularly to fatigue (and Binman's idea of asking players to rate their effort out of 10 post game) - would be to get someone who has rated themselves exhausted... so essentially 10/10 given... they then go home to their family, and low and behold a man with a gun is there aimed at your head... he says... 'go run a further 10km champ' Well, you would do it wouldn't you ...now its not just due to 'adrenaline' - you're willing to have the pain and fatigue (recalling that you're 10/10 exhausted) - in service of what matters, and there is a genuine acceptance of the fatigue and emotional experinces that will arise along the way of running your 10km... this is what is missing for the notion of consistency of effort. - as you said @binman Actually, evolutionary wise - your brain would rather you be on your couch drinking beers, eating pizza (CONSERVING ENERGY) rather than expending it (so it makes sense there is a dissonance between what we feel we can give vs what we actually can give)... you brain does this...just in case their is a bear back in your cave and you need to run. Essentially it always stores more energy than you need, in case you need some more in special circumstances.

Great question! How long is a piece of string!

Amusing, insofar that Mark Stevens who has been in the industry for decades decided to use a descriptor ‘heavy-hitter’ vs a specific job title. Now that’s not meant to be disparaging to Alan, he may do a lot of good in his role...

I feel it's a couple of things within the systems - as you have already said @Grr-owl - that seperate our 'best games' vs weaker performances. Midfielders not running both ways with urgency/filling up space/haranguing - so what shifts the willingness to do it weekly? Forwards essentially not doing the same thing Smaller handballs to stationary players - so do all the players around the ball 'feel' pressured and don't want to be he one with the pill caught holding it - essentially playing emotionally safe I think also the oft quoted scoreboard pressure really helps validate that we are doing ok, which feeds in to confidence to continue to be expansive and take risks - rather than dishing it off short (and the 'pressure' goes back on to the other team) - so what if Kossie had got his 2, Melksham etc etc... On that note - that is what needs to be worked on - as it is evidenced that they can do it well - its how do they work through the pressure on them when they have the ball to create better opportunities for each other... On another side note - I dislike the language of 'we only do it on our terms' - essentially all teams do that. You could rule a line through 9 teams each weeks that didnt have it on their terms... that's not the issue at hand.

It's interesting @bjDee - I'm 40 - so don't recall Muir playing - but do remember commentators reference 'mad dog muir'. It makes sense why someone subjected to socially sanctioned, and systemic racism would at times react SO SO strongly (the notion of a mad dog),and the fact of not a single person had an a) understanding of your emotional experience, and b) having your back/support. My head goes to Sean Charles's experience. I must have been 12/13 perhaps a bit younger and remember the language, when he (im sure people can correct me) turned up later to pre season training, or perhaps broke his leg and didnt hang around the club. The langauge in the media (perhaps from MFC) was that he went 'walk about' - which of course is rather derogatory, dismissive and a lack of cultural respect. So for mine, he would be perhaps an indigenous person the football club have failed...from the outside looking back 25 years ago.

Wasn’t sure where to put this mods. Here is an uncomfortable article dealing with the impact of racism in the VFL, with a very brief portion from a very humanistic John Northey. Losing makes me sad, but not as a sad as how we treat those ‘different’ from us. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/persecution-of-robert-muir-story-football-doesnt-want-to-hear/12553554 Go Dees.

one thing I'll let you in on about Bailey Smith is his appetite for working hard, and improvement - shown it since the age of 12. For context, his Dad owns a national chain of Golf stores... very very wealthy and lovely folk, with amazing work ethic. If i was smarter, I would have put a lazy pineapple on him winning a brownlow at the age of 14.

got a link?

*sigh* Damian, remember the time 20 years ago, where you held a defenceless 18yo up to a then 30yo to get punched to the head neck and face on the football field in a 2v1? Oh, yes different times etc etc

Erm, upload it please ...then I'll upload it somewhere.

So... just to wedge another Jonathon Wilson (from The Guardian) article in here (and I wonder if this is my own confirmation bias, trying to force this upon Goodwin and the FD strategy or philosophy). "bayern-munichs-thomas-muller-relocates-interpretation-of-space" But what did resonate with me was this. The article is about one person's role in the game, someone who wouldn't be normally be seen in anyones All Australian (all Deutschland??) - so essentially a version of the cliched moneyball theory. It talks about systems and how one person helps the system... "It was in that same interview that, asked to describe himself as a player, Müller coined the term “Raumdeuter”. A pun on “Traumdeuter” – an interpreter of dreams, like Sigmund Freud or Daniel – it means something like an interpreter of space, and it’s remarkable for two reasons. Firstly, as he showed in his awkward attempts to popularise “Lewangoalski” on Friday, word play seems not to come naturally to him. But more, because it shows such acute self-awareness. Space is what he deals in; manipulating it is what is what he does. Müller is a little clumsy. His oddly long arms perhaps make him look a little gawkier than he actually is. He isn’t a great dribbler. He isn’t the cleanest striker of the ball. He isn’t unduly quick or strong. But his reading of the game, his instinct for where space and chances will appear and his work rate are remarkable. Müller didn’t touch the ball in the immediate buildup to any of the three goals. Statistically his contribution didn’t register. And yet his movement was integral to each goal. " But there is another comment that I thought...'ohhhhh, [censored] yeah, this is where we are at now...transitions'... "It’s not counterattacking as such, but Flick’s (Bayern's coach) approach is very characteristic of the modern Bundesliga, A game based in transitions." and so my head goes back to the OP - which referenced "Those two attributes – controlling the transition from attack to defence, and organising an attack – can be used as a simple test of managers. Klopp excels at both" As @A F has discussed AND some others on here (apologies for not naming) -as evidenced by the win against Collingwood - whereby we lost clearances and I50's - we transitioned really well, to then organise the attacks. Jake Lever spoke about all the things that are done by players not seen on TV, that are not possession based that our team(midfield) is now really believing in the utility of, and are now getting the evidence that it is worthwhile in the pursuit of success. Again this is about transition...(in my eyes) Jake also spoke about 'That counting possesion stats by media or supporters is now redundant in what is truly valuable to the team'. I thought this article also said much the same.

My first love was RIcky Jackson - I was born 3 months premature - so always small growing up (don't worry, I'm a unit now) - he was small and jumped out of lockers on the Vinyl Edition of C'Mon Demons- so there was a nice connection for me there. I always liked Stephen Tingay (does anyone remember the time at West Coast he blind turned after almost getting chased down on the wing and the two WCE players smashed into one other), Sean Charles, Kevin Dyson and Guy Rigoni and cried when David Schwarz did his knee at Lavington. But - YZE always did it for me Currently... Charlie Spargo... I just like the little ones, who are quirky... I suspect he will be a big game player.