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There never was much reason to read the Herald Sun, now there is none

Agreed WYL . I suggest an acid party in the Botanical gardens dressed as characters from Alice in Wonderland . No ,seriously , It would be nice to have some fans gets together and decide on a course of action to take on the AfL over these cultural issue such as food ,music and advertising .It's no fun at the footy- you just get processed like a chook .

One of the joys of going to the footy used to be chatting to friends, and to strangers who sometimes became friends, before the game and at the quarter breaks. Now at the G this is nigh impossible due to the blaring announcements and 'music', all played far too loudly to understand. I have written to the MCC several times about it, but of course have never had the courtesy of a reply. I guess that is "progress".

I think the second H in your title should be a W, should it not.

Moloney's 2011 was a vast improvement on what I thought he was capable of at the start of the season. He's still not an A-grade midfielder; rather, he is a B-grader capable of A-grade performances when the circumstances are in his favour. As other have noted already, his output was drastically lower against the very best teams. The round 1 draw against Sydney was his only good game against decent opposition and he was positively ineffectual against most of the best sides. Jones was a different kettle of fish. His effort could not be faulted, even if his execution was lacking at times. Moloney might have won the B&F and polled the most Brownlow votes but I rated Jones' year superior in most facets.

Those who say we should move on should be aware of the distinction between the need for our club to move on from the Scully scandal and the position of individual supporters. I believe the club moved on from this immediately after the post Scully press conference which happened on the day of the defection. I also think the club did it brilliantly and with class and in direct contrast to the shameful way GWS, the AFL and Demetriou have handled themselves in the aftermath. That our club has distanced itself from the farce and so capably managed its coaching appointments, the trade week and even the draft is an incredible result in view of the disarray that was evident in July and August. As for we supporters, given all that's transpired, surely nobody can stand in the way of us died-in-the-wool fans lapping it up as we watch the embarrassment of a shonky bunch of as they sink further and further in the mire? And this ain't over yet.

Because under the AFL rules, GWS doesn't need to get permission for anything.

Jurrah. Steve Johnson. Petterd. One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong...

and bring back the ressies before the main game

and they go 'at the end of the first quarter its the dees trailing the pies by 15 points' over the loudspeaker.. yeah there's a couple of scoreboards dhead.. I gues the announcement is for all the blind dudes that come to watch a game of footy

Not really. Mike made a video straight after that press conference with Jon Anderson and there's no doubt that Scully's answers had him momentarily wavering, especially as Anderson thought Scully had been genuine, but in the next morning's article he reiterated his view that Scully would be leaving. And he stayed true to that view until the end. I like Mike, but I never found him insightful, or particularly knowledgeable about the game.

Martin Flanagan is a writer. Mike was a cheap hack in comparison. I am not sad to see him go, only his replacement becoming Chief. I hope to see him at the 'G next season.

I think it's time that fans were treated with respect by the AFl and clubs . It's about time a representative body of the paying public /viewers was formed to take on the AFL over issues like GWS fraudulence, the increasing corporatisation of the game, the rule changes, the woeful umpiring, the disgusting food /beer forced on fans, the ridiculous promotion of products throughout the game, the woeful entertainment on GF day, the ridiculous Etihad deal that is breaking some clubs every time they play there. Millions of dollars, from paying idiots like us, gets flushed away on half-wit schemes like GWS whilst established clubs, Melbourne, Swans, Saints, Dogs and Lions see success become harder to obtain or are forced to move/merge . Community football, local clubs, Auskick etc receive little benefit from the expansion of the AFL. In order to sell more burgers in West Sydney, the goodwill and history of our great club has been eroded and stolen for a fraudulent and artificial franchise. The TS saga aside, this would never have happened had the clubs/fans had a say. If the NSW AFL had put forward it's own proposal for a new team then fine. What I object to most is that the huge headless glutton we call a CORPORATION has stolen an organic culture and replaced it with culture LITE . Most people are too stupid or sated to notice but, as with cricket, this sort of crap will destroy the game. I suggest a symbolic protest during which the fans start bringing their own food and drink to games again and refuse the slop they sell at grounds. The individual players should have their salaries capped at half a million. Twice as much as the PM is more than enough . The argument will come back that kids will choose cricket or basketball over AFL if we cap the salaries. Cricket is already ruined by TV and corporatisation and basketball is broke. Fans of all clubs should rise up and make some simple demands for the benefit of a game we have founded and funded for generations. It's time we stopped the game being run by people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing .

Another average football writer goes. Big Deal. Won't be missed by me.. rarely read the Herald Sun

Can the word "elite" please be banned from these forums?

I used to see a chick who was right into this. Rather short relationship that one. The players just need to improve their fitness, skills, desire for the pill and learn the game plan Neeld has for them. I don't think we have the time for 'soft skills' at the moment. Time is of the essence to deliver a premiership.

?? sorry for being naive

Indeed - I find it pretty easy to forget how young these guys are in terms of their overall career. Jones in particular gets treated like one of our flagging veterans (by me at times I'll admit) at the ripe old age of 23 - he's probably still 3-4 years away from his peak. If he continues to improve and remain fit, he will easily surpass 250 games and has every chance of reaching 300 based on his current rate. Morton and Bartram just get an excessively hard time regardless of their age I think.

What is disturbing to me is the AFL appears to have lost its moral compass on this issue. Their whatever it takes attitude to establish a beach head Western Sydney means that actions that would be significant breaches by other clubs become worthy of re-examination, players who take a $1M to become the best paid in the league are courageous, income splitting cap avoidance schemes are "strokes of genius" and anyone who questions the "vision" is victimising GWS and its players. The reality is this the other clubs (including ours) are making sacrifices to help GWS get established and expect it and the AFL then to play by the spirit of the game and rules. My view: putting parents on a salary creates a distortion in the market for players, players are fully entitled to get the best reward for themselves but that’s exactly what it is hardly an act of courage and throwing money at a player beyond what the market would ordinarily bear is not an act of genius. In my view a CEO who applauds such nonsense and forgets the sacrifices being made by the whole football community is not acting in the best interests of the game. Finally, GWS appear to have adopted a position of gloating and goading which has been a PR disaster. They deserve the bad press and supporters response. What GWS should have done is thanked the Clubs (who by the way are the reason the AFL exists) for the sacrifices they are making in talent and financially.

A fine sports journo in this town. Especially at The Age. Much better than okay and ordinary, geez. He's not covering Wall St, he covers AFL and he did/does a great job.

GWS are also petitioning the AFL to be awarded the 2014 premiership cup now on the proviso that they perform the work later. This falls under the GWS clause "delayed workification" The argument is that if they keep their current players and future concessions they are then a certainty for 2014 glory therefore if they receive the reward now, the players will stay and they will then have the capacity to perform the work required in 2014. "What could be fairer than that?" they say. And in other news, Pendlebury Snr will be heading up the GWS raffle and Cadbury fund raising department at 150K per annum. He is currently an expert fund raiser across town on 5K per annum

not to mention playing some v. ordinary football before said injury

I believe it originates from the old Saxon "Clusterbuck" when many families would be housed in a single dwelling. One of the first changes was when the "f" was written as "b" in the Doomsday book.

Got back from training today surprised. I was surprised at the work rate and the amount of work done in the 2 and a half hours they were out there. I was sitting on the park bench on the far side of the oval for anyone interested. The boys started with some stretching then went into some light running and then they split. The main group did what looked like repeat 400m sprints, very tough, while the rehab group did ball handling drills, quick handballing and short kicking. The rehab group then split and Ricky Petterd and Neville Jetta did 20m sprints being timed by one of the assistants, nice bloke as well, Petterd kept getting 3.9's and Jetta gradually building to PB of 3.8. Bail was running up and down where the pair were sprinting. James Strauss and Rohan Bail did laps, whilst Liam Jurrah did 1/2 pace laps with a trainer again and somehow looked dead after. He and Jack Grimes had a small kick to kick afterwards. Michael Evans did solitary work today, mainly turning then kicking and pushing off oponnents for space, leading and marking. His kicking is below par by a mile, missed many targets on preferred foot too. On the far side of the ground the main group were doing something else, someone else can fill you in on it. Strauss looks good btw, running freely but his laps were slow pace. Aaron Davey and Mitch Clark then joined the main group for what seemed like set play and transition scenarios. A very weak form of a press was formed, still needs a lot of work, plenty of time to do so which is good. The main group was split up and put into 2 teams. One of the training add ons was always getting the ball, can't remember the name. Josh Tynan has good positioning but poor, very poor kicking skills, misses lot of targets and his kicks have little power on them, needs to change his ball drop. It looked like they did three set plays and then went off into their groups. Forwards, mids and rucks combined for a stoppage drill where the mids broke and streamed into the 50. Tom Couch looks like a clearance specialist, kept getting the ball from the bottom of the packs. And that was that, a warm down stretch and off they went. Players who were absent or did very little, Mckenzie, Bartram, Morton, Cook, Tapscott, Jamar, Jurrah, Grimes, Bail, any others?? On a side note I think that this year we will definitely be fit but it will be a question of how well we can stick to a gameplan. A lot of people's skills were below par yet understandable. Lastly, one thing that really disappointed me was Sam Blease's attitude. Petterd on the sidelines told him to give it a crack because in the transition drill he was lazy on the lead and was at less than half pace, then in later drills had his head down. Disappointing, needs to change this. And that was pretty much it. Any questions I'm willing to answer

Lin Jong certainly fits in with jcb's traditional policy of simply backing the bloke with the funniest name. Serhat Temel anyone?

This is the first time I've read a comment along these lines and I agree with it completely. Whereas most new draftees always seem happy to be a part of an AFL club Tom never seemed happy at MFC. Constantly gloomy etc. Maybe the comment above is right and he was only ever with us because AFL rules require draftees to receive a 2 year contract. To revisit a quote from the MFC when he walked "A black cloud has moved on". Currently stuck somewhere in the west of Sydney. From another point of view I would love our tax commissioner to come out and advise that they would begin an investigation into tax evasion. I've worked in tax for a long time and income splitting (in respect of income earned from personal excursion, i.e. wages) is highly frowned upon. Now I know the answer is that Snr is being paid as a recruiter. That's like all the spouses of all thoses clients who are paid as administrators but never get near the front door. Plus we keep hearing the AFL and GWS say that the money would have been earned by Tom had they not contracted Phil. I know it's petty but I calculate that the Scully's will short change the Australian public more than $120K over the 6 year contract period, all based on Snr being able to access the various marginal tax rates whereas if the income was returned by Tom he would be taxed on the highest marginal rate for all the income. Petty yes, but it would be lovely to watch.

There's more than one picture involved here and the one I like looking at is IMO an even bigger picture. I'm all for progress, growth and development but you have to achieve a balance between the profit of the entrepreneur and the good of the environment. I’m not keen on greedy developers who are so obsessed with their bottom line that they wilfully ignore everything else and produce eyesores within infrastructures that pollute and destroy their environment. That’s how I look at the way the AFL and GWS have gone about trying to establish this football club in Western Sydney - like greedy developers not caring or taking into account what happens to the rest of the football environment. Jimmy Stynes famously said, the AFL is developing a system that breeds distrust and encourages young kids to tell lies. But it wasn't just a young kid who was involved in deceit - it's the whole system created to push aside existing member clubs and prevent them from bidding to keep their youngers players and then the sneering contempt from GWS when they announced their victory. Even the compensation packages were sold in a deceptive manner. The first band of compensation might look good on paper and is even accepted by some as fair but it doesn't compensate like for like and everybody knows that. I don't care for the development of the game in the western suburbs of Sydney if greed and corruption are what underpin its introduction into that part of the world.