Melbournefc's approach to Conditioning

[e25 5]

And finally, it looks like Bertolacci was with the Northern Knights last year, doesn't say what he's doing now... or at least I can't be bothered reading it all properly

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

And finally, it looks like Bertolacci was with the Northern Knights last year, doesn't say what he's doing now... or at least I can't be bothered reading it all properly

Still in the mix then - Probably worked with Jack Grimes

[John Dee 445]

Anyway, here is a bit of info into what happened with Bertolacci and what the cats said, if anyone cares...

http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/po...4198378280.html

Basically they accused him of providing a detailed dossier of Geelong players to rival clubs, detailed strengths & weaknesses.

The business of providing player dossiers and the like happened after Bertolacci was sacked, not before.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agreed - Now how to get it?

I dont think you will through legitimate means.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Well given that he launched legal action against the club for wrongful dismissal, it's fair to say that he was sacked.

And I doubt that the people who made the decision to sack him were physical training experts either. Like most of us on this forum, they make assessments based on observations and end results. If you try to quantify everything, you end up finding excuses for people, and nothing changes.

Mo,

I think Shaft's explanation and news article identifies the sacking of the fitness adviser for breach of confidentiality not the quality of his fitness program. If Geelong's allegation is true then Bertolacci has done his professional career irreparable damage.

Any proof to back up your statement undeeniable?

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

I dont think you will through legitimate means.

Just joking

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Just joking

No problems. However there are posters who cant see why MFC members dont get full disclosure on the extent of MFC player injuries!!!

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

No problems. However there are posters who cant see why MFC members dont get full disclosure on the extent of MFC player injuries!!!

Yeah I know - More fuel for the fire - Members, opposition and media.

I suppose the benefits of doing this outweigh the downside - That being members, opposition and media seeing how well we are doing (genuinely)

Not disclosing injuries is being somewhat dishonest in that context, and that inevitably comes back to bite you (downside)

I especially feel for the players, who must endure hidden injuries throughout the year, without any public awareness of what may be affecting their performance.

In some cases recently, it has lead to some players careers being questioned because of it.

[Rogue 585]

In some cases recently, it has lead to some players careers being questioned because of it.

...but not by the people who have the full story, and they're the ones that make the decisions.

[John Dee 445]

Mo,

I think Shaft's explanation and news article identifies the sacking of the fitness adviser for breach of confidentiality not the quality of his fitness program. If Geelong's allegation is true then Bertolacci has done his professional career irreparable damage.

Any proof to back up your statement undeeniable?

Based on my recollection of events, Bertolacci was accused of all sorts of ineptitude at the time relating to his management of the fitness of the players. There were other unsavoury rumours doing the rounds but nothing relating to breach of confidence. After Bertolacci was sacked, Geelong accused him of hawking around player dossiers although this did seem to have the whiff of [censored] for tat about it as it followed the legal action instituted by Bertolacci.

The article in the link provided by Shaft would appear to support my recollections.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

...but not by the people who have the full story, and they're the ones that make the decisions.

True, and I was referring to the impact that it has on them mentally by enduring media and supporter pressure - not actually having their career cut short.

Having said that, surely the lack of disclosure in some way tarnishes their image in the game in general, and in turn their currency?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

True, and I was referring to the impact that it has on them mentally by copping media and supporter abuse - not actually having their career cut short.

Having said that, surely that lack of disclosure in some way tarnishes their image in the game in general, and in turn their currency?

Agree with Rogue on this. I dont think it is any benefit releasing sensitive and confidential information on a player's well being. If a footballer was that worried about supporter abuse then they would not play the game.

Thanks undeeniable for verification of your position. The whole thing seems murky.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

Agree with Rogue on this. I dont think it is any benefit releasing sensitive and confidential information on a player's well being. If a footballer was that worried about supporter abuse then they would not play the game.

Thanks undeeniable for verification of your position. The whole thing seems murky.

Yes, and all I'm saying is I feel for them, and their predicament. No disputing that the information must stay confidential, because that's what the game's come to.

Put yourself in their shoes - knowing that you can't tell people you have an injury, when you are being forced to play and performing crap. It's easy to say that when it doesn't affect you.

Oh Sorry I forgot....Their payed professionals and they need to just get over it. No wonder they get into all sorts of rebellious type behaviour IMO.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yes, and all I'm saying is I feel for them, and their predicament. No disputing that the information must stay confidential, because that's what the game's come to.

Put yourself in their shoes - knowing that you can't tell people you have an injury, when you are being forced to play and performing crap. It's easy to say that when it doesn't affect you.

How do you know they are being forced to play??

One of the challenges of being an AFL footballer is putting yourself open to adulation, scrutiny and criticism both on the field and off the field. All three aspects intrude significantly on normal life. For all the gloss and high pay its crap life that frequently leaves you crippled by the time you are forty. However if they want to play AFL footy then it goes with the territory and they need to get used to it or choose another profession.

I am not sure why there should be full disclosure of their medical position and given the rights of privacy a player has. And they seemed to be limited these days.

BTW, your last sentence undermines your more sensible contributions to date. However I will keep your views in mind when Daniel Kerr jumps on a car bonnet or arranges another pharmaceutical trade or a team uncovers a budding Laurence Angwin or Karl Norman. They obviously must be carrying an injury!

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

How do you know they are being forced to play??

One of the challenges of being an AFL footballer is putting yourself open to adulation, scrutiny and criticism both on the field and off the field. All three aspects intrude significantly on normal life. For all the gloss and high pay its crap life that frequently leaves you crippled by the time you are forty. However if they want to play AFL footy then it goes with the territory and they need to get used to it or choose another profession.

I am not sure why there should be full disclosure of their medical position and given the rights of privacy a player has. And they seemed to be limited these days.

BTW, your last sentence undermines your more sensible contributions to date. However I will keep your views in mind when Daniel Kerr jumps on a car bonnet or arranges another pharmaceutical trade or a team uncovers a budding Laurence Angwin or Karl Norman. They obviously must be carrying an injury!

Exaggerations and taking points completely out context are obviously your forte. I suppose the same could be said for your last sentence - Get some perspective

[Rogue 585]

Having said that, surely the lack of disclosure in some way tarnishes their image in the game in general, and in turn their currency?

It might mean they're less prominent on the footy fan's 'best 22' thread, but I don't think it's going to impact on their 'currency' much in the eyes of people who make decisions, no.

It would be frustrating on a personal level though, yeah. Just another one of those things that comes with being a pro sport player - how you deal with the variety of stressors.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

It might mean they're less prominent on the footy fan's 'best 22' thread, but I don't think it's going to impact on their 'currency' much in the eyes of people who make decisions, no.

It would be frustrating on a personal level though, yeah. Just another one of those things that comes with being a pro sport player - how you deal with the variety of stressors.

Are you meaning those who make decisions solely from within the Melbournefc, or other AFL clubs as well?

Do you think clubs get much access to medical records from other clubs in the scheme of things? Would they disclose the whole box and dice if they were trading a player for instance, in order to get a deal over the line, and prove why a player’s performance may have been affected?

[deanox 10,045]

and in a demonland first...newbie takes on rhino richards!

[deanox 10,045]

Are you meaning those who make decisions solely from within the Melbournefc, or other AFL clubs as well?

Do you think clubs get much access to medical records from other clubs in the scheme of things? Would they disclose the whole box and dice if they were trading a player for instance, in order to get a deal over the line, and prove why a player’s performance may have been affected?

if i was trading for a player and had reason to believe there may be a med problem you would demand full inspection of records. actually if i was trading for a fully fit player i would demand inspection of their med records. and i would have my doctors go over each player as well. im sure that is what happens.

and RE playing injured. there is a similar chance to a pro afl player carrying a niggling injury as there is an amature or lower level pro playing with an injury. ask people who have played vfl or ammos. or even other sports such as rugby. alot of these players carry stuff all season. if anything the afl players are in a better boat because they get the benefit of medico assistance, ie physio, massage, proper recover, modified training programs etc. they also dont have to front up to work mon-fri like the rest of us, but can spend their time doing appropriate rehab stuff and exercises to repair and prevent future problems. they get paid to keep their body in the best shape they can, they dont have to do it on their night off.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

and in a demonland first...newbie takes on rhino richards!

Fair enough, I should ease my way into it a bit more.

There's a long season ahead

[Rogue 585]

Are you meaning those who make decisions solely from within the Melbournefc, or other AFL clubs as well?

Do you think clubs get much access to medical records from other clubs in the scheme of things? Would they disclose the whole box and dice if they were trading a player for instance, in order to get a deal over the line, and prove why a player’s performance may have been affected?

Firstly, my comment was in response to the following:

I especially feel for the players, who must endure hidden injuries throughout the year, without any public awareness of what may be affecting their performance.

In some cases recently, it has lead to some players careers being questioned because of it.

To reiterate, hidden injuries haven't led to players careers being questioned by those who make the decisions - those at the Club itself. Fans, media perhaps, sure.

Moving on to the second part of your question, that of other Clubs, you're certainly correct in asserting that it's not in a Club's best interests to give opponents information on medical history etc.

However, I'm sure there are some AFL rules/legal issues involved regarding disclosure - I recall an issue re: disclosure of the Kangaroos & Hay's depression - and Clubs have players checked out by their own medical staff. I also imagine that there aren't too many secrets in footy, even if your average punter doesn't hear about them all.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

However, I'm sure there are some AFL rules/legal issues involved regarding disclosure - I recall an issue re: disclosure of the Kangaroos & Hay's depression - and Clubs have players checked out by their own medical staff. I also imagine that there aren't too many secrets in footy, even if your average punter doesn't hear about them all.

OK - So there is a potential, that a player's "currency" can be affected in the broader AFL community (clubs only), by to the lack of medical disclosure. Players own club not included - Agree? Yes/ No?

[mo64 5,883]

The AFL is the only football body that plays ducks and drakes when it comes to disclosing player injuries. And to my knowledge, it all started when Sheedy became coach of Essendon.

In the NFL, full disclosure of player injuries is mandatory. The NRL clubs name their teams on the Tuesday. The advantage of not disclosing player injuries is beyond me.

I also find it immoral that the AFL receives money from the turnover of some betting agencies, yet allows clubs to make last minute changes without penalty.

And btw Rhino, undeeniable is spot on with his sequence of events re Loris Bertolacci. The alleged disclosure of intellectual property came after he was sacked.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Firstly, my comment was in response to the following:

To reiterate, hidden injuries haven't led to players careers being questioned by those who make the decisions - those at the Club itself. Fans, media perhaps, sure.

Moving on to the second part of your question, that of other Clubs, you're certainly correct in asserting that it's not in a Club's best interests to give opponents information on medical history etc.

However, I'm sure there are some AFL rules/legal issues involved regarding disclosure - I recall an issue re: disclosure of the Kangaroos & Hay's depression - and Clubs have players checked out by their own medical staff. I also imagine that there aren't too many secrets in footy, even if your average punter doesn't hear about them all.

There are also Privacy laws which would prevent the issue or use of such information without the permission of the player involved. Its not an area of law that an AFL club would want to become a test case for. Does anyone know what the AFL Players Association attitude is to this?

While Hay had some problems at Hawthorn and not viewed as the sharpest tool in the shed, can anyone substantiate that Hay's diagnosis of depression was known by the Club at the time of his transfer? If it was known the AFL football grapevine would have disseminated it pretty quickly

[Jaded No More 68,975]

and in a demonland first...newbie takes on rhino richards!

You are way underrated!