Leadership group.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I thought I'd start an independent thread here to the Neitz/captain one, which is sort of a different topic altogether.

I noticed some disappointment and ire at the result, from some posters. My five cents:

Robertson - Makes sense to me. We've lost a lot of experience, and Robbo is one of the better demons of the past couple of decades. At his best he can push for a Coleman, and unlike Neitz, is still in his footballing prime. He was dropped in years gone by, but I think a 28-year-old Robertson will have focus unlike we've seen in his past.

McDonald - Yep. No complaint here. Veterans should lead, and even if he wasn't in there with a title, he'd be leading anyway.

Bruce - Should be there. Is one of the players that holds heaps of responsibility.

McLean - The only "young" one in there. Is still being spoken of as future captain despite recent bad press.

Yze - Has been vocal on the training track apparently, and must have impressed DB. This would suggest he will be selected whenever possible. Personally I think it makes SOME sense from Dean's perspective. He's highly respected by his team-mates, and is among the most talented on the list now that Trav is gone. My query is that he's shown us all this before. He was dropped from the leadership group in the past DESPITE these strengths outlined above. So what could have changed? Hopefully I'm wrong.

Miller - I'm shocked by this, but not the way people may think. Given a coach that has gotten behind him, and given a good honest run at ONE position, you may find Brad finding his Mojo again. People say he's a "confidence player" whatever that means, and if that's true, a confident coach may bring about results. My shock comes from the fact that he's not put it together YET. I would have thought pump up his tyres all year, let him play whole games at CHF, or CHB (wherever Dean has plans for him) and let him regain his reputation before promoting him. Maybe a touch premature. If he does the same again this year as he did in 2007, there's going to be some unhappy campers. Though I will say this, with Neitz, Holland, Robbo and White coming to the end, Miller's age and strength will be more important than ever in the coming years. He may find himself leading because there's no-one else.

And the ones that missed out?

Green - I can't believe this. Maybe he's just not done enough at training? Maybe it's a precursor to a future trading? Maybe Dean likes his footballers, not his athletes? This is HUGE news, and the biggest thing to come out of this announcement, along with the Miller promotion. I'm not sure what to think, and would appreciate some comment from the club, as well as 'landers.

Jones - Too early of course, but I can see this guy being in the leadership group as soon as 2009, and as Brock's right hand as soon as 2011 or so.

Davey - Is it time for the club to start looking at him? People used to say "captain material." Perhaps when he's 27+?

Rivers - When will he pop up? He's of that age now, but maybe it'll take an injury free season. The sooner it happens the better, I always worry about him being traded.

White - Looking at the players promoted, he should have been up there. He's a lifetime demon. Perhaps not the profile.

Bate, Dunn, Bell maybe one day... But too early really to be able to tell.

So questions? Comments?

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

Whilst it is appearingly a shock that Green has been left out of the group, it does make sense that it panned out that way, and that the players have voted that way. In my eyes, Brad has always come across as a little bit more introverted than the others in the the current leadership group (perhaps with the exception of McDonald) This would make a difference given the politics within the group, and the youth now on the list.

I also think that there may be plenty of positives to come from this (and you have always got to look at things that way) Brad's footy has always done the talking,

and this could be just what was needed to see Brad's best footy this year. Without the extra responsibility of what is perceived to be a leader, he can focus on getting the best out of himself, and that is where he can lead from. Who knows, maybe he didn't rally for the position like previous years, as he might want that break. Maybe someone knows him personally and can comment with more authority, but I feel that only good can come from this.

When you see Brad picking up 30+ possessions and gliding across the pack on the half back line, you will have your answer to "Why not Green"

Question: From those in the know, Does Bailey have the power to include or exclude an individual to the group, or is it purely a player vote?

[Jaded No More 68,835]

Neita:

Pst+ Our best leader. Well equipped to handle the media in a big year for the club. Respected and loved by all.

Ngt- Possibly his last season. Injuries have ruined his last few campaigns.

Brock:

Pst+ The successor. Leads by example on the field.

Ngt- Needs to lead by example off the field.

Junior:

Pst+ A great role model and won the last 2 Blueys. Plenty of experience.

Ngt- Possibly his last season.

Robbo:

Pst+ Much loved senior player who, despite injuries, has performed adequately each season. Plenty of experience.

Ngt- Should be concentrating on his form

Bruce:

Pst+ When on song, a very good player and is at the perfect age bracket to lead the club. Plenty of experience.

Ngt- Should concentrate on hitting some targets

Miller:

Pst+ Strong, aggressive and leads by example

Ngt- Can't really get a kick... or a game (in which to lead by example)

Yze:

Pst+ Skillful. Plenty of experience.

Ngt- Poor application for a number of years now. Dropped from the leadership group for a reason.

So that's it really. There are positives and negatives for every choice made.

At the end of the day, the choice was left up to the players, and that IMO is the only mistake that's been made here. It's dangerous letting a bunch of 'friends' pick leaders, there is far too much bias involved. However, we owe Dean Bailey and his new team some patience. This is the way the club chose to conduct their leadership search, and so be it. If it fails, things will change in 2009.

The thing that worries me, is how are we going to change our culture, when the main culprits from the past are back in charge?

I would hope that we are trying to be the opposite of what some of our senior players have represented in the last few years. And where does the 'Under 23' policy fit in, when the leadership group is comprised mainly of over 28's?

What will happen next year when Neita, Junior and Yze are possibly gone? Eventually we'll be forced to introduce a young leadership team, but it would be nice if, when the time comes, we could have a group ready to go. At the moment, it looks to me like McLean is the only youngster anyone rates.

Certainly I think most of us would have preferred to see Jones, maybe Bell, maybe Rivers be included in this group, over some other individuals. Perhaps following the leadership camp they had in China, it was decided that they are just not yet ready. Or perhaps, as we've done in the past, a secondary 'young leadership' team will be introduced again, and given minor duties to try and develop their leadership skills further.

At the end of the day, you can have 7 Neitas and that still won't win you a premiership. Each individual player should lead the club in their own way, and it is up to the whole group to set the right example, from first year players, to our oldest and most experienced.

Having 7 leaders is completely pointless, as you might as well have 20. With Neita in charge, and everyone else pulling their weight, we can thrive and succeed whether Yze or Miller or Green are or aren't given the title, and yes it is just a title, of 'leader'.

P.S.- Brad Green is VERY VERY stiff to miss out from an outsiders point of view.

[demon3165 2,665]

When DB was appointed we are told that he is not only a coach but a teacher of men and we all applauded it and when people went and saw training they all said gee there is a difference in the training, players being shown how to kick, handball under pressure etc, again people say they are impressed with DB, but soon as the leadership squad is announced same folks say he does not know what he is doing or why he agreed with it, me I will wait.

Unlike most people here I do not see Green as a leader, and not all people are leaders but that is only my opinion.

Rivers, lets cut some slack, been out nearly all year and just getting back into full training, might be next year.

Davey, lets see what DB does with him, I think he will be a very dangerous player next year, to early to lump him with the group.

Bate, Dunn, Jones and Bell will be there sooner than later IMO.

Finally on YZE and Miller, yes even I raised my eyebrows, but maybe that is the difference between DB and ND, one teaches and bring people along for the ride and another just coaches.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

i reckon the Cats had 21 leaders last year + Nathan Ablett

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

i reckon the Cats had 21 leaders last year + Nathan Ablett

Exactly!

And they must have all been part of a cutting edge, 21 man leadership group. Thousands of dollars spent on leadership consultation to discover they all needed to sober up.

It's amazing what you can do when you make a pact to stay off the booze. All of a sudden you can win a premiership, which all started with one players misdemenour during the offseason

No booze = leadership = premiership

Such is the importance of leadership groups, not When you consider Steve Johnson's standing at the club before he inspired his team mates.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

Exactly!

And they must have all been part of a cutting edge, 21 man leadership group. Thousands of dollars spent on leadership consultation to discover they all needed to sober up.

It's amazing what you can do when you make a pact to stay off the booze. All of a sudden you can win a premiership, which all started with one players misdemenour during the offseason

No booze = leadership = premiership

Such is the importance of leadership groups, not When you consider Steve Johnson's standing at the club before he inspired his team mates.

Just noticed on a Demonology thread that Steve Johnson was reported to be in strife again, this time for speeding apparently.

Perhaps the Demons can have a 22 Man "Speed Kills" leadership group, and then we might be at the cutting edge of leadership for 2008 - It worked for Geelong last season

And this may give us an edge for the future with the AFL wanting to enforce speed limits via limiting the interchange

Here's to leadership via misdemeanours.

[mo64 5,851]

I think this sums it up in a nutshell:

http://sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/grand-old-hat-41766

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

I think this sums it up in a nutshell :

http://sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/grand-old-hat-41766

Who the heck is Ronny Lerner?...Never heard of him

Come to think of it ....Who am I?

Maybe Ronny should do a Lerner course in Leadership before he decides to know everything about Melbournefc dynamics.

Everyone just loves (including our own supporters) to sh.t bag Melbourne and the chances they have every year. Let's see what Ronny says when we make the 8

I can't wait...

[drdrake 3,152]

Leadership groups are a load of rubbish anyway. All you need is captian a Vice and Deputy, the rest is over kill.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,679]

I think this sums it up in a nutshell:

http://sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/grand-old-hat-41766

I stopped reading when he suggested Sylvia should be in the leadership group.

[kryton 0]

Leadership groups are a load of rubbish anyway. All you need is captian a Vice and Deputy, the rest is over kill.

I must confess thinking along similar lines as I read this thread - I wonder if in the absence of any real footy we are over emphasising the importance of the leadership group. Reading all the profiles of the new recruits many seemed to have a reference to good leadership potential and given their elite status probably were leaders at their old clubs from underage teams and up.

Working in a profession (military) where leadership is valued and regularly evaluated for each person I would expect every player to be a leader either by example, deed, team work or voice. By the same token there is only one Captain.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

I must confess thinking along similar lines as I read this thread - I wonder if in the absence of any real footy we are over emphasising the importance of the leadership group. Reading all the profiles of the new recruits many seemed to have a reference to good leadership potential and given their elite status probably were leaders at their old clubs from underage teams and up.

Working in a prefession (military) where leadership is valued and regularly evaluated for each person I would expect every player to be a leader either by example, deed, team work or voice. By the same token there is only one Captain.

Well said!

[The Emblem 1]

I must confess thinking along similar lines as I read this thread - I wonder if in the absence of any real footy we are over emphasising the importance of the leadership group. Reading all the profiles of the new recruits many seemed to have a reference to good leadership potential and given their elite status probably were leaders at their old clubs from underage teams and up.

Working in a prefession (military) where leadership is valued and regularly evaluated for each person I would expect every player to be a leader either by example, deed, team work or voice. By the same token there is only one Captain.

Well, the Military generally get it right...they after all are competing in the ultimate competition. One skipper, but all the lads responsible for themselves and at the same time supporting each other.

With the exception of a raised eyebrow re Frosty, I think DB has just about got it right for where we are with the list. From all reports there is leadership potential amongst several of the U23 group, sensible then to let the senior players take the responsibility in the short-term and give then new crop ample time to adjust to the off & on field demands required of them.

As far as all the trash talk in the papers...forget em, they are paid to write like manic-depressants with the hippocampus of a goldfish!

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

From all reports there is leadership potential amongst several of the U23 group, sensible then to let the senior players take the responsibility in the short-term and give then new crop ample time to adjust to the off & on field demands required of them.

That's a good point - I imagine they have enough to focus on already

[Apocalypse XXXI 243]

Who the heck is Ronny Lerner?...Never heard of him

Come to think of it ....Who am I?

Maybe Ronny should do a Lerner course in Leadership before he decides to know everything about Melbournefc dynamics.

Everyone just loves (including our own supporters) to sh.t bag Melbourne and the chances they have every year. Let's see what Ronny says when we make the 8

I can't wait...

He's an Essenscum supporter who wouldn't know much.

[Demon15 0]

The thing that worries me, is how are we going to change our culture, when the main culprits from the past are back in charge?

I would hope that we are trying to be the opposite of what some of our senior players have represented in the last few years. And where does the 'Under 23' policy fit in, when the leadership group is comprised mainly of over 28's?

What will happen next year when Neita, Junior and Yze are possibly gone? Eventually we'll be forced to introduce a young leadership team, but it would be nice if, when the time comes, we could have a group ready to go. At the moment, it looks to me like McLean is the only youngster anyone rates.

Certainly I think most of us would have preferred to see Jones, maybe Bell, maybe Rivers be included

Terrific post Jaded.

This will show us a lot about DB's thought processes if he has had input into the group's composition.

[Sydney Pennski 294]

There are obviously some out there who feel that we should be pushing more of our young players into leadership roles but I'm not so sure that this is a good strategy. DB's in his first year at the club and needs to see first hand the leadership skills of our younger players. Sure, he could have gone for Jones and Bate on the strength of their polling in last year's B & F but last year was a strange season for the club with so many of our better players missing slabs of games through injury. In any event, leadership skills will emerge this year from the younger group irrespective of whether or not they're placed in an offical leadership group.

You could point to what Richmond have done with the inclusion of Nathan Foley and Chris Newman as their new vice-captains but it's also a risky strategy as well. Foley was promoted from the rookie list in 2006 and has had one good season. It could be embarrassing if he turns out to be a one season wonder.

[TonyMelb 7]

The debate each year over who should be in the leadership group, like the unneccessarily drawn out delay in announcing Neita as Captain (last 3 years) is becoming a bit repetitive and tedious. I agree with those incliding Neita (on MFC website) noting that there are number of leaders whether or not in the leadership group.

The changes do have something to do with players votes for each year and with almost totally new coaching panel since 07 we should cut DB and Co some slack in regard to inclusion of Yze and Miller. I believe they were elected on the player votes.

The underlying issue is that no one in the age between Neita (& the Ox) & Brock has demonstrated any strong credientials for the Captaincy over several years, including Cam Bruce and Brad Green. Several have and make good VC's. Some can fill in better on field (Brad & Adem) others are better in offfield (Cam and Robbo). Looks to me that it is a case of whether Brock can cope with both and comes on as expected (and selects better off season tour destinations!). If he does then should be VC alone in 09 if Neita plays on & then captain in 2010. Looks like Cam B is there as insurance and could be a short term captain if Neita has to retire early. Brad is the other interim option.

Out of curret younger players the leaders (post the current seniors) are: Brock, Jones, Davey, Rivers & could include Miller if he could raise his skill level enough (considerable doubt). MFC & DB need to develop these guys over next 3 years to have a number of real choices.

[beelzebub 23,312]

I sense Bailey is not only plannig for the future but accomodating the immediate transistion period about to impose itself on the Dees.

Those that play Chess might have an idea of what is going on now.

Im quite prepared to watch this season and see how the leadership issues pan out.

2009 will be a different kettle of fish for sure.

[mo64 5,851]

I sense Bailey is not only plannig for the future but accomodating the immediate transistion period about to impose itself on the Dees.Those that play Chess might have an idea of what is going on now.

Im quite prepared to watch this season and see how the leadership issues pan out.

2009 will be a different kettle of fish for sure.

I think you might be right BB. If the leadership group was solely based on youth, the older palyers at the club may feel a sense of rejection by the new coach, which could be a short term disaster. Bailey might be trying to stimulate the motivation levels of the older players, which may help him in his first season. If this doesn't work, he'll go with youth next year.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

This certainly explains things.... Green wants back in with Leadership - Herald Sun 31/1/08

Good to see that Brad wants in, and is determined to prove he has what it takes.

Guys, what's your opinion of their up front and tell all strategy to leadership? It certainly keeps the leaders accountable, and the other players for that matter.

I can see a couple of changes to the leadership group before the year is out.

[alpha33 308]

I don't know about the need for official changes but, in a young side, there is always the possibility of players coming up who will stamp themselves as leaders and, as DB has said, he looks upon the likes of Green and Jeff White as leaders anyway.

[Slartibartfast 17,095]

Morton, Grimes, Maric, McNamara, Cleney, Martin, Wonaeamerri, Zomer, Valenti, Meesen and Spencer would have all voted. That's 11 players on the list who have not played any football with him . That's 25% of the votes from people who, frankly, don't know. But they soon will.

I'm a Brad Green fan. For all the crap he cops on the websites he is brave, he goes when it's his turn, he does a job every week whether it's his natural game or not, he prepares his body well for the season and during the season and he's a ripping bloke which anyone who has had the pleasure of speaking to him will know.

Brad Green will be promoted to the leadership group in due course. I think he has a very good chance of being our next captain. That is further evidenced by the way he has responded to the situation.

In short, through no fault of their own, the players got it wrong.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Could not agree more with that Fan.

I am sure Brad Green will rightfully return to the leadership while others in the Group may be found out in due course.