"Miller should stay"

I agree, Real D. I reckon ND stuffed him around. He was brilliant as a forward at the end of '06.(inc.finals). ND starts him off as a negative CHB in 07, and he loses momentum. This has happened every time he gains confidence as a forward. Also, he suffered when urged to be aggressive by ?ND, overdid it, and kept getting suspended, delaying his progress.

I'd really like to see how he fares under a different coach......with US, since I think all the Miller-knockers on this forum will be surpsised what a talented, and committed , player we've got.

i think your view on miller is to personal.... he has played some good games

i am very happy too see him play on for melbourne.... he is a player that u dont want to see develop at anohter club... it is a gamble.. but its a decision i think we must stick with

its not personal in the sense that i couldnt care less who is is..he just happens to be this bloke Miller

....but its my my personal view.. ( well it'd have to be..it me!!)

what a non sensical stancce.. in that he might develop somewhere else... yes he may indeed.. bu [censored] matters not one iota if he doesnt develop at MELBOURNE because then he next to bloody useless at MELBOURNE !!

we've already gambled 5 years on him...and even the most optimistic punter would have to agree the jury is very much still out on him ( at best )

played some good games...

oh well in that case...keep him definitely !!!

what about all the useless bloody games he participated in ??? or do we just ignore them

No my view isnt a personal one...its just a cold look at a player.

that view is that he's not worth keeping !! it costs money to do so...he's not worth it..

I seem to recall many of us had a similar discussion re Miller some 2 years ago..

So much has changed for the better !!

is it fair to say we have a fair amount of room on our list?

and miller would be not worth alot for trade?

keep miller... he is worth more to us

every one on that list has to have a reason to be there... its not charity .

you say he's not worth a lot to trade.. thats akin to sayin ghe's next to valueless period.. As it happens Sydney ARE interested; so at present we could realise something of him.. Another mediocre year and he WILL be untrdable !!

worth more to us ....than ???

every one on that list has to have a reason to be there... its not charity .

you say he's not worth a lot to trade.. thats akin to sayin ghe's next to valueless period.. As it happens Sydney ARE interested; so at present we could realise something of him.. Another mediocre year and he WILL be untrdable !!

worth more to us ....than ???

Thank goodness you aren't in charge of brokering any deal here Bub. You could always shoot him in the street and spit on him while doing it. Me, I like to have loyalty to all who pull on our jumper even in their poor times. I love your posts usually but here I think you are way off the mark........a lot.

My position on Brad Miller has been very well stated on here over a long period of time and I am certainly not going to go into it again (particularly since I have been abused, not surprisingly unfortunately, because of my support for this player), but I will say that if sending him up here to the Swans can get us an absolute and definite improvement (not some low grade speculative pick either) then so be it. But I would think that that rule applies to all players.

I have no argument, but there is no word on what the Swans will want to give up and I don't think Buchanan will be on the table unless we can offer up quite a bit more, and they may actually give us bub-kiss. This of course will be in line with what a hell of a lot of people think of him around here. So how the hell people think he is suddenly worth a Premiership forward is pretty amusing really.

But the difference between you and me is that I will never berate one or any of our players for sport. Especially not at this time of the year, when if they don't get pushed then we are left to support (foreign concept for some in regards to Brad) all those that still wear the jumper.

If they trade Miller then it hopefully will be for some quality or as a bonus to someone who is going to give us quality, not for a donut and a cold cup of coffee as some around here are saying. And despite popular opinion he is still the size of a KPP (and we have so many of those) who has played at both ends with some success (albeit limited) with a great work ethic (which puts him ahead of a few of his team mates), and who knows what he will learn and change under and new coach. And if that applies to players with poor attitudes like Johnstone then it should apply to Miller as well.

But then again I don't actually expect anyone here is actually agree with anything I say on this subject. Brad Miller is our resident punching bag.

But then again I don't actually expect anyone here is actually agree with anything I say on this subject. Bad Miller is our resident punching bag.

I agree with just about everything you have said QueenC. I think Miller is an unfortunate victim of a pretty ordinary strategy from our coaching staff since 2004. In that year he was a moderately to very effective CHF. Since then he has never been allowed to settle into a position. He has shown snippets at both ends - a couple of great performances at the SCG on Hall at FB/CHB and a ripping final against the Dockers last year at CHF. Unfortunately for Brad he gets to be our number one hole plugger. I think he would succeed at Sydney because Roos would extend to him the same degree of faith he has in blokes like Richards and Roberts-Thompson. Given the dearth of KPP's I think he is worth holding on to. He is still only 24 and if given the opportunity could develop into a better than useful player.

Thank goodness you aren't in charge of brokering any deal here Bub. You could always shoot him in the street and spit on him while doing it. Me, I like to have loyalty to all who pull on our jumper even in their poor times. I love your posts usually but here I think you are way off the mark........a lot.

My position on Brad Miller has been very well stated on here over a long period of time and I am certainly not going to go into it again (particularly since I have been abused, not surprisingly unfortunately, because of my support for this player), but I will say that if sending him up here to the Swans can get us an absolute and definite improvement (not some low grade speculative pick either) then so be it. But I would think that that rule applies to all players.

"applies to all players" couldnt agree more !!

why am I off the mark ? seriously ? why. because I cal a spade a spade. because as far as any players worth to the club goes its ( to me ) what they add to the equation. Its business. yes he pulls on a Melbourne guernsey .. and ?? thats his JOB !! he's paid for it.. he doesnt do it for charity , so I wont treat it as such.

its a two way street. He does X, gets paid Y.

when X fails to fulfill any purposeful role .. then what is his true value to the overall??

and again..yes I agree with you..this applies to anyone in the red and blue. Everyone is judged on their merits.

Just how many years of "poor times " exactly do we put up with? whats the magic number at present its 5 !! is 6 the right amount ? is seven??

They ( players ) are out there to perform a role. to contribute. That and only that is their domain. Any and al other arguments are moot really as only quality to them is sentiment. Sentiment will not get you across the line alone. There is skill, ability, contribution etc etc.

A player is either a plus to a team..or by defualt he is a minus, who ultimately ought pay the price for that. Initially the team will, but eventually the owneship of performance come fair and squarely upon the individual.

Its not whether hes a nice bloke.. etc etc..what relevance is that. Its his worth to the team come play day !! At the moment I simply suggest that his worth to the team is greater in trade than it is on the field in red and blue..and as such the appropriate course ought to be trade.

I think she is from Chile.

Oh, eh? was she cold?

Oh, eh? was she cold?

cold as ice

*quoting some foreigner for you*

I seem to recall many of us had a similar discussion re Miller some 2 years ago..

So much has changed for the better !!

I agree with u bub re his recent lack of progress, but lets face it, under danners, who really has beyond their own growth.

I reckon Bails may be goin' to give him 1 year to prove he's developing or else fly north yon brad till you see a big coathanger low in the sky.

cold as ice

*quoting some foreigner for you*

Was she wearing a tight fitting 'T' shirt?

I agree with u bub re his recent lack of progress, but lets face it, under danners, who really has beyond their own growth.

I reckon Bails may be goin' to give him 1 year to prove he's developing or else fly north yon brad till you see a big coathanger low in the sky.

Thing is.. sin city may not be interested in him in a years time .

Ultimately everyone has to decide what tehy want to do. I conced the effect of mentoring 9 or whatever is the effective opposite ) can be telling. But Miller ..indedd all have had opportunities to develop their play, hone their skills and rise to their ability. No one else can really do it except for othe individual.. The Petterds, Rivers..Newtons etc...grabbed it and ran.. they grew in their game. brad has had as much chance under same condiotions as all the others.. and his achievement sheet is nothing exceptional ( nor is he alone QC ...)

If he stays ...he stays....and we'll probably all have this conversation again in a years time

I agree entirely with your excellent post, Pello.

Agree with QueenC

Keep Miller.

Fools, keep him only on the proviso that no1 offers anything as stated previously if we get offered a waterboy or above then get rid of him otherwise might as well keep him, surely he can come in handy for holding the speccie bags etc.

careful SS...thats heresy !!! lol ( to most its common sense )

Obviously if noone else wants him then he's ours, but id certainly be fleshing out the market ( and for some others too )

If Sydney are willing to offer anything for Miller then I'd jump at it.

A chicken Parma and a pot would do.

not sure if you have been to sydney recently but I dont think the parma n pot is possible in a trade, parmas are impossible to find in sydney and they dont deal in pots just yet still on midi's etc...

every one on that list has to have a reason to be there... its not charity .

you say he's not worth a lot to trade.. thats akin to sayin ghe's next to valueless period.. As it happens Sydney ARE interested; so at present we could realise something of him.. Another mediocre year and he WILL be untrdable !!

worth more to us ....than ???

Well Belze your views are pretty clear on this issue. To answer your question about what value is he:

1. Miller gives us another tall opton forward or back (god forbid) in a team desperately lacking KPP's.

2. He gives us a big strong body in a team that has few of these.

3. He gives us some much needed depth when injuries strike as they have done and will do again.

4. He does present well and provides a leading option for our midfielders and backs. Yes sometimes he leads too far up the ground but hey so does Nick Reiwoldt - its not the worst sin one can commit.

5. And despite what you say he did take some good pack marks this year and kick some good goals. His skills in this area are clearly improving.

THis year he showed improvement at times but was frustratingly inconsistent. His game against Fremantle in that final was no fluke. He showed us all he can play the game. He is a confidence player and with the right coach he will develop into a good CHF. He needs a good coach - a teaching coach. Enter Bailey.

You say he has some trade value now and we should not let the opportunity slip to get something for him. I say for all the reasons above he is worth keeping. You clearly don't agree with anything I say on this but you must concede that his value to the team is at the very least a "fill in" for KPP's when injuries come along. And every team needs these. Geelong had Playfair and Gardiner and as they were lucky enough with injuries they didn't need to call on them but they were there if Mooney or Nathan Ablett went down.

So next year is Miller's last opportunity. Offer him a one year deal and if Bailey can't do anything with him either then I will gladly concede I was wrong. But the upside of keeping him clearly outweighs trading him and getting another kid that we have to spend a few years developing who may end up failing anyway.

Miller is useless, you put him in the same sentance as reiwoldt some quick stats

Miller in 07, 16 games averages 5 marks, 11 touches and .6 goals reiwoldt averaged 2.1 goals, 9.7 marks and 18 touches. If you think Miller just had a bad year in 06 he played 15 games for 5.5marks, 12 touches and .25 goals, Matthew scarlett probably averages more goals per game for a CHF its a disgrace.

You know, I kind of find it amusing that in all the kerfuffle a few things from that article have been completely overlooked........

That I probably shouldn't find surprising given the "lets beat up Brad Miller" fun everyone loves to have around here at any available opportunity. And I am thankful to Pello and Demons 32 for not being quite so "follow the leader" in regards to this ongoing argument. Its nice not to feel alone, so thanks guys.

It was argued earlier in this thread that Craig Cameron was doing nothing more that pumping up Millers potential trade value by stating that he is a "required player" but he also states "We've offered him a two-year contract and we're waiting for a reply," and "We really rate him as a person with great leadership qualities and we want him to stay." I would think that this last two quotes, particularly the first one, would be a weird thing to say if not true, for any player.

So my question is this, is he just flat out lying (disappointingly I realise that this will be the popular opinion given the player we are talking about)?

Or is Cameron actually a man of his word and is therefore telling the truth and a contract has been offered (and please try to get over all of your personal biases in this regard if that is at all possible, this is not always going to be about Brad Miller, but is about the wording and why he would say it if it is a flat out lie)

Unfortunately I am left to conclude (as I don't tolerate disloyalty of any kind) that if this is some kind of elaborate ruse or flat out lie (which to me is nothing short of an appalling tactic no matter what you think of the player personally), then he and the club certainly aren't as decent as I thought they were. And here is where people will say that we need to be cut throat and I would agree, but not with people who at this stage are still part of our club.

If they want to trade Miller than he should be aware of it and any talk of a future contract (publicly or privately) is therefore irrelevant.

Pumping up his tires to try to get a better deal for Melbourne is one thing, publicly stating a contract offer is on the table is completely different, in my opinion.

The other thing that seemed to be ignored in this article actually didn't have anyhting to do with Miller at all.......

"Melbourne is trying to off-load 2005 best-and-fairest winner Travis Johnstone for the right deal.

So far, there have been no takers for the 1997 No1 national draft selection."

Really, why?

Miller is useless, you put him in the same sentance as reiwoldt some quick stats

Miller in 07, 16 games averages 5 marks, 11 touches and .6 goals reiwoldt averaged 2.1 goals, 9.7 marks and 18 touches. If you think Miller just had a bad year in 06 he played 15 games for 5.5marks, 12 touches and .25 goals, Matthew scarlett probably averages more goals per game for a CHF its a disgrace.

Give me a break! I wasn't suggesting Miller was in Reiwoldt's league. I was merely pointing out that Miller and Reiwoldt lead a long way up the field. Did you bother to read any of my other comments or do you just want have fun with stats. I am not arguing that Miller has had poor seasons for the last 2 years. But part of the reason the stats are so low is because Daniher was playing him out of position on the backline in a pure defensive role where stats were not as important as stopping his man. And yes before you jump on that one as well he did not succeed in that role too often either. But as I have consistently said - his position is CHF.

His game against Fremantle in that final was no fluke.

It was a fluke, he didn't do it before and hasn't done it since. He is no good, it's as simple as that.