10 hours ago, demon3165 said:

It's funny that I started to say these things in 2022 and onwards, as you could see the changing game styles that teams were starting to implement. Our midfield then was one-paced and lacked skills, and as the years have gone on, it has been shown to be correct. We had forward line problems then, and we still do now, so nothing has changed since then.

10 hours ago, demon3165 said:

You can teach body positioning, and you can teach leading patterns, and while forward instincts take time, you can at least make them competitive.

Hard to understand why you're not on the shortlist of candidates really.

10 hours ago, Macca said:

Brown succumbing to injuries along with T-Mac losing his impact was the main reason our forward line became dysfunctional

And we have tried to remedy things with JVR, Jeffo, Smith, AJ, Petty, McAdam etc etc

Hindsight tells us we should have gone after a proven key forward at some stage and we may well go down that path in the upcoming off-season

I hope we do as our current batch of KPF's just keep failing to measure up. Aside from the delivery forward, our KPF's don't win their own ball enough anyway. Low impact and once the ball hits the ground, it's the oppositions ball

I'd go after one proven KPF this year and then go again in 2026

We'd have to give up a bit but that's the price you have to pay for a quality forward

Our delivery forward needs an obvious fix. That's a job for the new coach

Yep... hindsight - a helpful teacher but lousy critics. I bet there would be some fascinating stuff in the archives on here. I keep hearing that CHF/talls take quite some time to develop. We drafted one at #9 in about 2016 and obviously were patient. Just imagine if we traded Wiedeman at the end of 2020 and in the five years since he'd kicked 300 goals; on here we'd read about it daily. Anyway at the end of 21 we had a flag, Brown and TMac going ok and still a bit of hope for Wiedeman. At the end of 22 we still had Brown , TMac, JVR on the horizon and lots of people confident Petty could become a good forward. I'm not sure what we should have done since. But certainly we've tried a few players forward and recruited Jefferson. What terrible oversights have we made? It's so easy to knock out recruiting, for example. But I bet few can usually show proof of their original doubts or provide better alternatives.

On 06/09/2025 at 13:20, old55 said:

Bucks had to deal with Eddie and Pert, he's certainly had some tough schooling and would have learnt plenty from the experience.

It's a great point. Hadn't thought about that.

Is there a more unpleasant crucible to have been forged in?

35 minutes ago, old55 said:
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Hard to understand why you're not on the shortlist of candidates really.

Just go back to my old posts to see that, I think it was after round 10 in 22 I said we would not win another flag, and in 23 blind Freddy could see that, but obviously not you.

On 06/09/2025 at 13:20, old55 said:

Bucks had to deal with Eddie and Pert, he's certainly had some tough schooling and would have learnt plenty from the experience.

And Malthouse who was a reluctant 'mentor'!!

15 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Yep... hindsight - a helpful teacher but lousy critics. I bet there would be some fascinating stuff in the archives on here. I keep hearing that CHF/talls take quite some time to develop. We drafted one at #9 in about 2016 and obviously were patient. Just imagine if we traded Wiedeman at the end of 2020 and in the five years since he'd kicked 300 goals; on here we'd read about it daily. Anyway at the end of 21 we had a flag, Brown and TMac going ok and still a bit of hope for Wiedeman. At the end of 22 we still had Brown , TMac, JVR on the horizon and lots of people confident Petty could become a good forward. I'm not sure what we should have done since. But certainly we've tried a few players forward and recruited Jefferson. What terrible oversights have we made? It's so easy to knock out recruiting, for example. But I bet few can usually show proof of their original doubts or provide better alternatives.

I'd like to see the strike rate of tall forwards with regards to drafting (in terms of success)

With us, it hasn't been great but our needs right now are immediate. So trading is a real option

The downside is we'd have to shake up the list but Imv, we need to do that anyway

The KF with the biggest upside is JVR but he has regressed. I'd go after a proven KF and then we wouldn't need to be so reliant on JVR (and the others)

10 hours ago, bing181 said:

Actual facts tell us that we have gone after proven key forwards (e.g. Lynch), but haven't been able to get any across.

Lynch was just one. We’ve also thrown the kitchen sink at Georgiades, Morris, Waterman, Neale, Allen, McKay, Hawkins and Larkey over the last couple of years. People seem to wilfully ignore that when they say “we should’ve brought in a mature key forward”.

We’ve been trying! It’s easier said than done.

From 6 mins

Reiterate that it's not a boat race. 6 candidates shortlisted. Nathan Buckley, Hayden Skipworth, Steven King, Brendan Lade, James Kelly, Daniel Giansiracusa. Appointment ideally by Preliminary Final Week heading into Trade Week. Have been catching up with people over the last 3 weeks.

So nothing new.

I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this week it's down to 2. From memory, Guerra said that the best two candidates will present to the board who will then weigh in on the selection.

You'd expect then from the 15th to the 19th they interview the two and decide who's the best candidate to then announce on the 22nd.

6 minutes ago, Dee Boys said:

Lynch was just one. We’ve also thrown the kitchen sink at Georgiades, Morris, Waterman, Neale, Allen, McKay, Hawkins and Larkey over the last couple of years. People seem to wilfully ignore that when they say “we should’ve brought in a mature key forward”.

We’ve been trying! It’s easier said than done.

That doesn't explain why a top 4 contender team, with a flag in 2021, wasn't attractive enough.

Take for example McKay. We could have told him, you'll be number 1 in our team (unlike sharing the spotlight with Curnow) and our team is competing for more flags, and you are the missing piece.

Same thing that probably brought Lynch to Richmond in 2018.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I'd like to see the strike rate of tall forwards with regards to drafting (in terms of success)

With us, it hasn't been great but our needs right now are immediate. So trading is a real option

The downside is we'd have to shake up the list but Imv, we need to do that anyway

The KF with the biggest upside is JVR but he has regressed. I'd go after a proven KF and then we wouldn't need to be so reliant on JVR (and the others)

Who? 17 other clubs? What's that? Maybe a dozen possibilities? And maybe no one's interested in going to a side that's languishing or still in the same city. There may be no real options.

12 hours ago, demon3165 said:

You can teach body positioning, and you can teach leading patterns, and while forward instincts take time, you can at least make them competitive.

I reckon we have seen that you can also teach frustration and hesitancy.

The fact that our vigorous forwards JVR Kozzie are continually penalised for attacking the ball.

It seems we seldom receive free kicks for over the shoulder and tripping in our forward line. Tracc, Clarry Kozzie continually held off the ball, Blocking and interference is rarely paid. Play on is often called when there is no resulting advantage. All tese lead to rushed kicks and poor disposal.

These things occur in the game and cannot be practised or trained for as it is usually dependant upon the umpire at the time there is no consistency.

24 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

That doesn't explain why a top 4 contender team, with a flag in 2021, wasn't attractive enough.

Take for example McKay. We could have told him, you'll be number 1 in our team (unlike sharing the spotlight with Curnow) and our team is competing for more flags, and you are the missing piece.

Same thing that probably brought Lynch to Richmond in 2018.

When? Carlton's finished above is the last three years. As I said elsewhere we probably felt Fritsch, Kosi, BBB, TMac, Wiedeman and then Petty, JVr, Melksham and even Smith would tide us over.

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

From 6 mins

Reiterate that it's not a boat race. 6 candidates shortlisted. Nathan Buckley, Hayden Skipworth, Steven King, Brendan Lade, James Kelly, Daniel Giansiracusa. Appointment ideally by Preliminary Final Week heading into Trade Week. Have been catching up with people over the last 3 weeks.

So nothing new.

If we pick any of Skipworth, Kelly or King and Geelong and Collingwood make the granny it won't be during prelim week. Weird we put this timeline on it.

32 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

When? Carlton's finished above is the last three years. As I said elsewhere we probably felt Fritsch, Kosi, BBB, TMac, Wiedeman and then Petty, JVr, Melksham and even Smith would tide us over.

End of 2022.

Should remember that in 2022 McKay was out of contract. Carlton proceeded to re-sign Curnow first (and probably with more money than McKay).

Weideman was last used regularly in our 22 back in 2020. I think by 2022 it was clear he wasn't it. TMac and BBB were close to the end.

It made sense to rejuvenate our KPF position.

58 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

That doesn't explain why a top 4 contender team, with a flag in 2021, wasn't attractive enough.

Take for example McKay. We could have told him, you'll be number 1 in our team (unlike sharing the spotlight with Curnow) and our team is competing for more flags, and you are the missing piece.

Same thing that probably brought Lynch to Richmond in 2018.

Looking like a mess off-field, worst training ground in Victoria, and lack of cap space all would have contributed.

Richmond were a big club, in a great location and were extremely well run, and then were able to offer Lynch a big contract albeit backloaded.

8 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Looking like a mess off-field, worst training ground in Victoria, and lack of cap space all would have contributed.

Richmond were a big club, in a great location and were extremely well run, and then were able to offer Lynch a big contract albeit backloaded.

I understand the Lynch situation.

But I'd wager the McKay situation was a bit different. For one, we had the LJ money available. Then Carlton made it clear their number one was Curnow.

Finally, Carlton underachieved in 2022 and didn't make finals.

Just a missed opportunity in my opinion.

1 minute ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I understand the Lynch situation.

But I'd wager the McKay situation was a bit different. For one, we had the LJ money available. Then Carlton made it clear their number one was Curnow.

Finally, Carlton underachieved in 2022 and didn't make finals.

Just a missed opportunity in my opinion.

Didn't Freo offer LJ more than we could in the end? McKay would have needed a decent carrot to leave. There's every chance Carlton would have gone for it but McKay wouldn't have too.

Don't think we did ourselves many favours or capitalised on the flag to make us look like a reasonable destination unfortunately. The board room fights, rumours about Goodwin and cultural issues all started in 2022 and we allowed that all to fester for two more years.

2 hours ago, Go Ds said:

Who? 17 other clubs? What's that? Maybe a dozen possibilities? And maybe no one's interested in going to a side that's languishing or still in the same city. There may be no real options.

You have to chase hard

Been done before and money talks (you have to pay overs)

Or leave it as it is and continue to lose

The new coach won't have a magic wand

6 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Best news I've had all day...or should I say best potential news I've had all day.

Edited September 8Sep 8 by Roost it far

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

To be fair to Bucks this does line up with what he’s said publicly about determining whether Melbourne is the right fit for him

But at the same time it would be odd for him not to have a high level of interest given the inside word of a few well connected posters here

Edited September 8Sep 8 by demoncat

17 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It would be a shock if a potential coach didn't do a 'stack of research'!

Nothing to back up his opnion - not even a reference to a rumour or 'parties not authorised to speak'.

He has no idea!

Its a perfect example of the media 'echo chamber'!!

Edited September 8Sep 8 by Lucifers Hero

he has no experience away from the filth, he hasn't coached at any level for over 4 years, and he doesn't know whether he wants it?

basically rules him out for mine

3 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

That doesn't explain why a top 4 contender team, with a flag in 2021, wasn't attractive enough.

Take for example McKay. We could have told him, you'll be number 1 in our team (unlike sharing the spotlight with Curnow) and our team is competing for more flags, and you are the missing piece.

Same thing that probably brought Lynch to Richmond in 2018.

I think the timing was all wrong. The key forwards we went after at the time all had unique circumstances at the time that kept them at bay. I think you'll also find that most players want to stay one club players and it takes a lot of disenchantment to leave.

I think the the likes of Larkey and Waterman, just wanted to remain loyal and connected with friends. OR it could have been the $$$ who knows. There is also the distinct possibility that our reputation as a destination club is not great and player managers may in fact discourage their players to steer clear. Unlikely but something of this ilk maybe at play.

With McKay and Georgiadies, i think that their respective teams were thereabouts when we tried to poach them. Had their teams been in a similar position to what they are in now when we were pursuing them, i think we could have convinced them to join.

I dont think it would have made much difference to our chances. Our F50 connection has always been the problem. When our trio bulls in Oliver, Trac and Viney consistenly ranked in the top 20 worse kicks in the AFL even having Jezza wouldnt have mattered. We need to remove the butchers (which we are doing now).