12 hours ago, binman said:

I mean there is so little evidence changing coaches results in sustained success that its bizarre the myth, not to mention practice (though AFL clubs are not changing coaches as often now) continues.

This, a thousand times this.

I just find it bizarre. All the evidence you could ever want is out there, but people are just sticking their heads in the sand.

8 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Caro clearly has sources at board level, directly or indirectly.

Caro clearly has sources.

15 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

At the heart of the argument for changing the coach is to bring other changes that perhaps would not have occurred under Goodwin.

I'd go a step further and say definitely could not have happened under Goodwin.

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

I just find it bizarre. All the evidence you could ever want is out there, but people are just sticking their heads in the sand.

Is the logical conclusion, then, that you never change a coach?

21 hours ago, binman said:

I reckon that's simple not the case, and its a falsity that drives myth that replacing the coach will address sustained poor performance.

I mean there is so little evidence changing coaches results in sustained success that its bizarre the myth, not to mention practice (though AFL clubs are not changing coaches as often now) continues.

Just look at the blues and roos for recent examples. How many coaches did both clubs cycle thru in the 5 years before landing on their current saviours Voss and Clarkson, neither of whom have been able to achieve anything remotely resembling sustained success.

I wold argue the number one factor in not achieving sustained success is a poorly performing executive.

Number two is players.

Number three is the high performance team and culture (the latter being influenced by the coach).

Number four is the coach.

If they don't sort the governance of the club the next coach could be a combination of Norm Smith, Clarkson, Hardwick, Phil Jackson and Sir Alex Ferguson and we'd still have sustained lack of success.

Which is this quote from the Caro article posted above is spot on:

Whether or not you agree with the decision to sack Simon Goodwin, it cannot be disputed that he coached in often challenging and occasionally untenable conditions. Board discord has punctuated the past six seasons, including 2021 when Goodwin coached the club to its first flag in almost six decades. Surely the next coach will be spared that distraction.

The club has issues. Goodwin underperformed. These things can both be true.

If you're talking about distinct periods I agree. If you're talking about sustained periods of underperformance/decline, that's on coaching not getting the best out of their players. You could argue we didn't have the players to win a flag the last two seasons and I would agree. But I would argue we had the players to at least challenge for finals and we have been way off even that.

If replacing the coach doesn't change anything, then it doesn't really matter that we sacked Goodwin anyway because his effect on the club was negligible.

I get that our win/loss record has been atrocious this year, but per this picture below we're 5th for with the footy now over the last 5 games which shows why Goodwin was bullish on our progression. Our defence has clearly let us down this year and I think it was the next thing Goody was going to focus on, but that's the best we've been 'with the footy' since 2021.

If I may, I would like to state that I am a supporter of the MFC. As such I believe in public praise and private criticism. Probably explains why I have been rather quiet.

Goody is a legend of the club, rightly so, but after 10 years, if you cant defend a 46 point lead against St kilda, whats the point?? The emperor has no clothes, or rather the playing group ripped them off him.

Whether this is the right decision or not, time cant tell, as you need teams playing in parallel universes to really determine that.

One thing I will say if the club cant develop or recruit a key forward or 2, who the coach is irrelevant.

10 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Is the logical conclusion, then, that you never change a coach?

No, the logical conclusion is that you fix everything else first.

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

No, the logical conclusion is that you fix everything else first.

Excepppppttttt the club did the opposite?

Hows that going for you?

On 16/08/2025 at 17:24, GawnOfTheDead said:

I’m about ready to change watching sports to darts. Because we are [censored].

From 186 to One Hundred and Eighty!

7 hours ago, Fritta and Turner said:

If I may, I would like to state that I am a supporter of the MFC. As such I believe in public praise and private criticism. Probably explains why I have been rather quiet.

Goody is a legend of the club, rightly so, but after 10 years, if you cant defend a 46 point lead against St kilda, whats the point?? The emperor has no clothes, or rather the playing group ripped them off him.

Whether this is the right decision or not, time cant tell, as you need teams playing in parallel universes to really determine that.

One thing I will say if the club cant develop or recruit a key forward or 2, who the coach is irrelevant.

Given the outcomes of 2022-2025 holistically, anyone who says that the St Kilda game didn't have a bearing on his sacking is delusional. It was undoubtedly the nail in the coffin. You simply can't defend that sort of loss in your 9th year as coach for the same team, unless your results elsewhere make up for it. The loss kind of compounded everything else that was going wrong.

I said it at the time that there was no coming back from that for Goodwin. It was simply inexcusably. Honestly I expected him to resign. I couldn't believe he still kept a relatively unmoved demeanour following that loss. And saying that there were positives in the final four minutes... I just think that the Saints game alone was kind of symbolic of his coaching over the past 12 months and it was the end of him.

I also still believe we should be playing finals at the very least. I also think that the reports suggesting the board disagreed with Goodwin about where we are at have been misinterpreted: I am willing to bet that the Board and Goodwin had differing views on who will lead us to the next flag. I am pretty confident at least one, possibly both of Oliver and Petracca will be elsewhere next season. And I also think May's time at the club is done. I hazard a guess that Goodwin presented 2026 as being a year where all three were fit and healthy and a key component of our chances to contend. Anyone with half a brain knows that is just delusional.

12 minutes ago, praha said:

Given the outcomes of 2022-2025 holistically, anyone who says that the St Kilda game didn't have a bearing on his sacking is delusional. It was undoubtedly the nail in the coffin. You simply can't defend that sort of loss in your 9th year as coach for the same team, unless your results elsewhere make up for it. The loss kind of compounded everything else that was going wrong.

I said it at the time that there was no coming back from that for Goodwin. It was simply inexcusably. Honestly I expected him to resign. I couldn't believe he still kept a relatively unmoved demeanour following that loss. And saying that there were positives in the final four minutes... I just think that the Saints game alone was kind of symbolic of his coaching over the past 12 months and it was the end of him.

I also still believe we should be playing finals at the very least. I also think that the reports suggesting the board disagreed with Goodwin about where we are at have been misinterpreted: I am willing to bet that the Board and Goodwin had differing views on who will lead us to the next flag. I am pretty confident at least one, possibly both of Oliver and Petracca will be elsewhere next season. And I also think May's time at the club is done. I hazard a guess that Goodwin presented 2026 as being a year where all three were fit and healthy and a key component of our chances to contend. Anyone with half a brain knows that is just delusional.

Where have you been all my life.

8 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I get that our win/loss record has been atrocious this year, but per this picture below we're 5th for with the footy now over the last 5 games which shows why Goodwin was bullish on our progression. Our defence has clearly let us down this year and I think it was the next thing Goody was going to focus on, but that's the best we've been 'with the footy' since 2021.

That's interesting ta.

It's a good point about our defence, because strangely even some dees fans still think of the team being boring and stodgy this season in terms of ball movement, transtion and scores from the defensive half when in fact we are one of the best in the AFL.

And that's despite how often we turn the ball over

The irony is it's our defence, our one wood under goody, that has really let us down, in particular our inability to defend turnover.

The added irony is under goody our other major strength has been our ability to win clearances an stoppages and we have really poor in that regard this season.

It's worth noting in that context we have two new midfield and stoppages coaches (radcliff and jones) and defensive coach (Basset). Not much to put on their resumes when they look for their next gigs.

On 17/08/2025 at 12:45, The Taciturn Demon said:

Exactly. Everything about his public statements suggest to me he'd prefer not to be in the job. Or at the very least he finds aspects of it extremely difficult.

If he revels in the 'power' of the position, he does an extraordinary job of hiding it.

And, also, what does he stand to gain out of some weird little power play to squeeze a couple more months out of his tenure?

This has struck me as bizarre too, TD. The only plausible reason I could conjure and it's a stretch, is Green, for some reason might feel or believe others see his presidential stint to be a failure if Smith took over early. The problem with that theory is, no one's really sure when Smith is supposed to take over. I've read he's back in the country and will take over at season's end (ie. after next week) which was planned and makes sense. Others say the season's end is after the draft yada yada and that Green wants to or had planned to stay on until then. Who TF knows what's going on. I also find it odd that he gets prickly about being called an interim president when that's exactly what he is. Wierd

1 hour ago, Howard_Grimes said:

Where have you been all my life.

Depends. How old are you?

32 minutes ago, praha said:

Depends. How old are you?

Old enough.

10 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I get that our win/loss record has been atrocious this year, but per this picture below we're 5th for with the footy now over the last 5 games which shows why Goodwin was bullish on our progression. Our defence has clearly let us down this year and I think it was the next thing Goody was going to focus on, but that's the best we've been 'with the footy' since 2021.

I mean.

What about the 5 games before that in isolation? And the 5 before that? Etc etc.

And what about the overall picture?

10 minutes ago, Howard_Grimes said:

I mean.

What about the 5 games before that in isolation? And the 5 before that? Etc etc.

And what about the overall picture?

Overall for the year we're 8th for 'with the footy' and 11th for 'without the footy'.

For an overall season, 8th is the best we've been 'with the footy' since 2022. We were 10th in 2023 and 13th in 2024 for comparison.

Poor Goody...he's gone and we're still going on about him.

Give him a break.

FWIW, he's a legend of the club and no one can take that away from him.

On 17/08/2025 at 11:36, whatwhat say what said:

the melbourne football club's nomadic existence

Ironically the year that we won our Premiership it was when the entire league was nomadic. Another way to put it is that living interstate united key personnel across the club in the same location instead of being spread across the MCG, AAMI Park, Gotches Paddock and Casey.

5 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Ironically the year that we won our Premiership it was when the entire league was nomadic. Another way to put it is that living interstate united key personnel across the club in the same location instead of being spread across the MCG, AAMI Park, Gotches Paddock and Casey.

Not to take anything away from that flag at all but I seriously think that 2021 was the best year to have a good run with injuries. All teams had to deal with a decreased soft cap, most Vic clubs had to play in and out of hubs for chunks of the season... we got good at the best time and got extremely lucky with injuries at a time when teams could least afford to get them. So I do believe it played a role... I wonder if the outcome would have been the same had 2021 just been a normal season. But I don't think anyone was beating us that finals series.

13 hours ago, bing181 said:

No, the logical conclusion is that you fix everything else first.

What do you mean by everything else?

12 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

What do you mean by everything else?

Is it possible the illustrious poster is neglecting, avoiding or not comprehending causality and results.

I.e Fixing the things ?? But who ̶F̶i̶x̶e̶d̶ fuxxed them in the first place !!

14 hours ago, praha said:

Given the outcomes of 2022-2025 holistically, anyone who says that the St Kilda game didn't have a bearing on his sacking is delusional. It was undoubtedly the nail in the coffin. You simply can't defend that sort of loss in your 9th year as coach for the same team, unless your results elsewhere make up for it. The loss kind of compounded everything else that was going wrong.

I said it at the time that there was no coming back from that for Goodwin. It was simply inexcusably. Honestly I expected him to resign. I couldn't believe he still kept a relatively unmoved demeanour following that loss. And saying that there were positives in the final four minutes... I just think that the Saints game alone was kind of symbolic of his coaching over the past 12 months and it was the end of him.

I also still believe we should be playing finals at the very least. I also think that the reports suggesting the board disagreed with Goodwin about where we are at have been misinterpreted: I am willing to bet that the Board and Goodwin had differing views on who will lead us to the next flag. I am pretty confident at least one, possibly both of Oliver and Petracca will be elsewhere next season. And I also think May's time at the club is done. I hazard a guess that Goodwin presented 2026 as being a year where all three were fit and healthy and a key component of our chances to contend. Anyone with half a brain knows that is just delusional.

That's my take too.

We may not be too far away but, to get there, hard decisions need to be made about premiership players and I was increasingly doubtful Goodwin was going to make those decisions.