Out. Spargo. Concussion or omitted

Ins. Viney if he’s recovered and clear to play

Saints were not bad v suns and it was their goalkicking that let them down

Don’t take them lightly

Saints will

• play one man loose behind the ball

• Setup to get the footy into hands of Wanganeen-Milera … @binman he had over 900 metres gained last week and was clearly their best

• Push hard at contest with Steele and Windhager (they won clearance v Suns)

• Run in waves through back half through Sinclair, Hill & Clark

• Have Marshall negate Gawn

• In absence of King, forward attack focus is on Higgins and Owens as attacking mobile options

Suns got them with pressure in forward half with nearly 20 forward tackles. That is what Dees need to bring. Yes if have Viney in, then perhaps that’s a role for him to crack down on Sinclair or create forward pressure

1 hour ago, Ghostwriter said:

Yeah, apart from Owens and Wanganeen-Milera who else do they have.

They have a few who can cause problems if we aren’t mentally switched on.

The group is going well and improving as we build, now we face a week where we go are going to go in as favourites

The expectation is we will win, no we have to deal with that and the Saints are copping heat in the media with Ross Lyon well versed in setting up an us against the rest mentality also able to get his playing group out of Melbourne, desperate for a win and focussed on the job.

Yes if we play the way we have been we will win, but we are going to get challenges thrown at us they will bring pressure and fight, Steel, Jones, Boxshall , Windhager are hard and honest, they have run with Hill and Wilson and as you mention Wanganeen-Milera who along with Sinclair can hurt you with the footy. Higgins, Sharman, Phillipou and Owen’s all talented in their forward half not to mention Marshall is in good form so they are more than capable

Need to bring the same pressure game, effort, intensity and remain composed to deal with expectation and the challenge

Danger game if we underestimate them

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

Id have T.Mac FORWARD for Petty any day of the week! Even if I dont rate A.J it seems that the Brainstrust at Demonland have Brainwashed the selection commitee and he will probably stay. Viney for Spargo is a given, the later will spend months at Casey waiting for another game and Sharp is becoming a damaging link player and finisher. So those are my changes and Petty is the sub! Anyone else want to buy in?

Two points: TMac is not our future. Petty is.

Second point - we're winning games with the current forward setup. Why mess with it?

Could be wrong but I feel like there might be a bit of a disconnect for some here in terms of what the coaching staff seem to want our forwards to do versus what forwards have historically done in footy.

Have found the game plan thread and Binman’s recent comments there really helpful in trying to understand this.

Petty and AJ certainly aren’t Hogan or Cameron but the way they play largely negates intercept marks in the forward 50—which both prevents those really frustrating fast transition goals through the corridor that killed us earlier this year and allows for ground balls that either let Kozzy do Kozzy things or starts those inside 50 handball chains to try to get to the open man.

Given that we do not have a dominant key forward at the moment, it honestly seems like a brilliant move by the coaching staff.

Edited Tuesday at 00:373 days by Disco InTurno

AJ’s physicality, size and role reminds my of the value I saw in Van Den Berg a couple of years back. In pressure games these players create space, fumbles in the opposition and second guessing that provides opportunities for our silk players. I’m loving AJ’s impact. Would love him thundering toward Maynard under a high ball.

Plus, I think it allows us to rest and play Max in a way that gets the best from Max for the team. Ie floating a kick behind play to lock it forward, etc…

Plus, AJ while 25 has only played 4 games and has shown an impressive improvement trajectory over last 2-3 years and he is likely to improve further.

Edited Tuesday at 00:423 days by PaulRB

2 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

Genuine answer, No

😂

The Saints aren’t too bad, they can play some good football at times. I think their list is one of the most middle of the road lists you will ever see though and are miles away from a Premiership.

3 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

AJ’s physicality, size and role reminds my of the value I saw in Van Den Berg a couple of years back. In pressure games these players create space, fumbles in the opposition and second guessing that provides opportunities for our silk players. I’m loving AJ’s impact. Would love him thundering toward Maynard under a high ball.

Plus, I think it allows us to rest and play Max in a way that gets the best from Max for the team. Ie floating a kick behind play to lock it forward, etc…

Plus, AJ while 25 has only played 4 games and has shown an impressive improvement trajectory over last 2-3 years and he is likely to improve further.

Concur.

He is, imho, still adjusting to the faster tempo of AFL.... and then the Swans game which was especially frenetic. Hopefully if retained his development will be or the more quickened for outings such as Sunday's.

The VDB analogy ..quite good 👍

39 minutes ago, ANG13 said:

The Saints aren’t too bad, they can play some good football at times. I think their list is one of the most middle of the road lists you will ever see though and are miles away from a Premiership.

I disagree.

Their list is still evolving, but they have two superb half backs in Wanganeen-Milera and Sinclair. They have the run of Hill and Wilson, and some dangerous smalls and mid sized forwards. They also have King, just he's injured.

Their list is actually well positioned for the modern game IMO.

Lyon just struggles to get consistency out of the group. Maybe this will come with more experience.

@Pennant St Dee nailed it. This is a danger game if we're not on.

Whilst I agree it’s a danger game, all games are danger games when winning is essential. For mine, to make finals, we need to win 6 of the next 8. That sets us up for a real tilt. For me finals mean little if we don’t make an impact. Anything less than a Prelim is still a waste for me.

52 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I disagree.

Their list is still evolving, but they have two superb half backs in Wanganeen-Milera and Sinclair. They have the run of Hill and Wilson, and some dangerous smalls and mid sized forwards. They also have King, just he's injured.

Their list is actually well positioned for the modern game IMO.

Lyon just struggles to get consistency out of the group. Maybe this will come with more experience.

@Pennant St Dee nailed it. This is a danger game if we're not on.

Not the first time we disagree on something and that’s all good. Again I think they can play some very good football and I am certainly not thinking this is an easy game coming up. But I think there are a lot of teams with better lists than theirs.

I've seen plenty of unnecessary losses to the Saints over the years. And there was a solid period of time where we couldn't beat them (tbf we couldn't beat anyone else, either).

They are an inconsistent lot right now, and that makes them a threat. Much like us, their best is v good.

This, the neutral venue, and the general evenness of the competition means we can't snooze on this game. It's a golden opportunity to keep up our momentum and enter the Pies game with 6/7 (which should have been 7/7) wins and with the boys flying. We certainly can still approach the Pies with confidence if we lose, but it will be a much stronger lead up if we can keep this streak going. And make no mistake, our best is much better than them. Pound for pound, we're a better team, and if we treat them with respect and apply the same pressure as the last few weeks, keep the ball in our 50, look for targets, take our chances etc, it should be a good 6 goal win.

As for the Pies, I believe we can beat them. But one week at a time, let's focus on keeping 4 qtr pressure on the Saints this week. We give them no quarter. Continue our push, one game at a time.

I'm calling this game: No Surrender in the Red Centre

Edited Tuesday at 02:543 days by Red But Mostly Blue
typo

2 hours ago, M_9 said:

Why mess with it?

Because it could be better.

On your theory Viney doesn't come in?

2 hours ago, Disco InTurno said:

Could be wrong but I feel like there might be a bit of a disconnect for some here in terms of what the coaching staff seem to want our forwards to do versus what forwards have historically done in footy.

Have found the game plan thread and Binman’s recent comments there really helpful in trying to understand this.

Petty and AJ certainly aren’t Hogan or Cameron but the way they play largely negates intercept marks in the forward 50—which both prevents those really frustrating fast transition goals through the corridor that killed us earlier this year and allows for ground balls that either let Kozzy do Kozzy things or starts those inside 50 handball chains to try to get to the open man.

Given that we do not have a dominant key forward at the moment, it honestly seems like a brilliant move by the coaching staff.

I really think a challenge for JVR had been adapting to this shift for our key forwards towards being more focused, as a starting point, on ensuring their direct opponent does not intercept mark.

I wonder if that helps explain why he kept on getting in wrestling matches with his opponent, something that must be a real challenge for a 22 year old key forward battling with bigger, stronger opponents.

And for a bloke that has played all his footy as a pure key forward (I think that's right) it's probably counter intuitive and unatural to be defence first, not to mention frustrating.

If I'm correct and goody is implementing a method that involves denying oppo intercept marks combined with manic inside 50 pressure (as evidenced by our off the charts inside 50 tackle differentials in the last six weeks - with an increased average pressure rating arguably the most dramatic statistical change since our first 5 losses) the key metrics for tall forwards are not goals and contested marks they are things like one percenters, spoils, pressure, tackles and above all denying intercept marks and bringing the ball to ground.

All of which points to one of things I most love about footy - the speed at which the game evolves tactically.

Having gone out ans targeted Lever to play the intercept role, we won a flag in large part because of ability to pressure the ball carrier to dump kick and then take intercept marks (a strategy we adapted from Hardwick's tigers and to a lesser eectent the crows)

All teams subsequently implemented variationa of that method to maximise intercept marks in the back half and use them to launch attacks.

Alir, Sicily, McGovern x 2, Vlaustin, Mcartin, Andrews etc etc etc all teams now have the equivalent of a Lever.

So now all teams are going to work on limiting such player's influence - which would in part explain why so few contested marks are being taken by forwards inside 50 atm.

It feels like goody might be going next level with denying intercept marks.

41 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Because it could be better.

On your theory Viney doesn't come in?

I really like the current mid-field mix (Trac, Clarry, Riv, and Kosi).

Like the forward mix, things had to change.

I love Viney's in and under and tackling, but too often his poor disposal costs us dearly.

The current game is all about speed. Jack is among the slowest players on our list.

If he comes in it would be at Spargo's expense.

TMac is stiff to be missing out. JV7 maybe also. Add JvR to that list.

On what basis can you claim we would we be better if all, or any, of these players were in the team?

Goody has made some tough decisions. I admire him for it.

Saints have won every game they lead at half time and lost every game they have been behind. Dont let them get a sniff is probably the learning.

Marshall is so hit and miss. At his best he is just on the cusp of AA squad. If he's off he unsighted. Their back up is 190cm Mitch Owens. Gawn had the 3 votes last year.

As mentioned, they have a mobile forward line without King. Wouldnt be a surprise to see May managed with an an eye to KB.

Also I wouldnt be surprised to see AJ plonk a few marks this week and kick a couple if he's playing on 7 gamer O'Connell. He gets to good spots and I suspect his marking/kicking has some upside.

Edited Tuesday at 04:133 days by Jjrogan

57 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Not so Bin, I’m on the Picket train and would replace AJ with JvR.

In four games AJ has had 23 disposals, two marks, 2 goals and 18 hit outs. I said it about Fullarton and I think the same with AJ; people are looking for positives but the reality is he’s not AFL standard yet, he drops marks he should take, he isn’t clean below his knees, his disposal is poor and when teams play two rucks against us because of Max he isn’t competitive. He was quite poor against Callum Brown as well.

Like everyone I love his attack on the ball, but you need more. IMO JvR is a better player all round and if you compared the two players JvR is clearly better. What people are doing is saying that JvR is well below his best so shouldn’t be in the team. Even well below his best JvR offers more.

To those that say AJ has played in winning teams and JvR hasn’t I say it is correlation not causation. Our results would have been the same with either.

It probably comes down to JvR’s mindset. If he believes he needs another game at Casey then fine but if he’s got his confidence back it’s a no brained for me.

I actually agree with you SB - ultimately JVR comes back in.

Kid is a total gun whose numbers in his first two seasons stack up to the very best tall forwards in the modern era, and better than his peers in the AFL (eg JUH, Amiss, Amartey, Logan McDonald, Cadman). I have zero doubt he will make it.

But like you I'm happy for JVR to cool his jets at Casey for say 2 to 3 weeks and allow AJ to play a block of games so he can settle and play with some freedom (so perhaps I'm catching the Picket train for one stop).

A benefit of taking that approach is it helps fast track AJ's development, which in addition to improving his game will help ensure he's better prepared if he gets a call up at future point and will give the coaching staff a better sense of where his ceiling is.

3 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I really like the current mid-field mix (Trac, Clarry, Riv, and Kosi).

Like the forward mix, things had to change.

I love Viney's in and under and tackling, but too often his poor disposal costs us dearly.

The current game is all about speed. Jack is among the slowest players on our list.

If he comes in it would be at Spargo's expense.

TMac is stiff to be missing out. JV7 maybe also. Add JvR to that list.

On what basis can you claim we would we be better if all, or any, of these players were in the team?

Goody has made some tough decisions. I admire him for it.

It is indeed a funny old world where you stop and prop when considering Viney returning. As you propose I would only really consider him for that Spargo position. He would play a very different game to Spargy but could certainly apply some demoralising defensive work in the forward arc. I reckon Tommy must be the unluckiest bloke currently. Perhaps should May be given a spell Tmac can return to the backline.

I'm reminded of the classic idiom

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

That would be the forward setup.

Should only look to tweak... not change atm.

1 minute ago, binman said:

I actually agree with you SB - ultimately JVR comes back in.

Kid is a total gun whose numbers in his first two seasons stack up to the very best tall forwards in the modern era, and better than his peers in the AFL (eg JUH, Amiss, Amartey, Logan McDonald, Cadman). I have zero doubt he will make it.

But like you I'm happy for JVR to cool his jets at Casey for say 2 to 3 weeks and allow AJ to play a block of games so he can settle and play with some freedom (so perhaps I'm catching the Picket train for one stop).

A benefit of taking that approach is it helps fast track AJ's development, which in addition to improving his game will help ensure he's better prepared if he gets a call up at future point and will give the coaching staff a better sense of where his ceiling is.

I can applaud and agree with a lot of your thinking of late sans JVR.

You even explain elsewhere why he isn't an automatic replacement/inclusion.

His early games/seasons were of one style of game. We've moved on... tgft ... He has yet to adjust . He currently dies not imo constitute the player we need up there. As I also suggested elsewhere he needs to work on his game. Needs to expand it. He also needs more gym if he's to outmuscle/outplay his keepers.

If we keep winning and/or keep competing hard ( even if a loss ) then there would have to be an irrefutable argument made to bring in JVR..

He has to show why. He needs to be banging down the doors with b.o.g. type games in the magoos. Not one, a string of them. Let him be the better choice because atm he isn't.

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Out. Spargo. Concussion or omitted

Ins. Viney if he’s recovered and clear to play

Saints were not bad v suns and it was their goalkicking that let them down

Don’t take them lightly

Saints will

• play one man loose behind the ball

• Setup to get the footy into hands of Wanganeen-Milera … @binman he had over 900 metres gained last week and was clearly their best

• Push hard at contest with Steele and Windhager (they won clearance v Suns)

• Run in waves through back half through Sinclair, Hill & Clark

• Have Marshall negate Gawn

• In absence of King, forward attack focus is on Higgins and Owens as attacking mobile options

Suns got them with pressure in forward half with nearly 20 forward tackles. That is what Dees need to bring. Yes if have Viney in, then perhaps that’s a role for him to crack down on Sinclair or create forward pressure

Agree. DO NOT take them lightly

i wonder if goody will get asked about lyon's comments on gold coast at some point this week since we have been fkd over by them before

5 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

Yeah, apart from Owens and Wanganeen-Milera who else do they have.

Is this a joke ??

Marshall

Sinclair

Both would be likely to be in the All Australian squad

Add in Steele and Wilkie

Higgins has 28 goals (4th on the table) and Sharman 18 goals

And highly rated youngsters like Phillipou & Wilson & Travaglia

Saints are no mugs

We should win but not to be a walk in the park

4 hours ago, Disco InTurno said:

Could be wrong but I feel like there might be a bit of a disconnect for some here in terms of what the coaching staff seem to want our forwards to do versus what forwards have historically done in footy.

Have found the game plan thread and Binman’s recent comments there really helpful in trying to understand this.

Petty and AJ certainly aren’t Hogan or Cameron but the way they play largely negates intercept marks in the forward 50—which both prevents those really frustrating fast transition goals through the corridor that killed us earlier this year and allows for ground balls that either let Kozzy do Kozzy things or starts those inside 50 handball chains to try to get to the open man.

Given that we do not have a dominant key forward at the moment, it honestly seems like a brilliant move by the coaching staff.

Big difference now is kozzy doesn’t fly for the ball anymore when players like petty do, he waits on the ground for the crumb and petty seems to rarely get beaten where the opposition is able to cleanly get possession. As a duo the 2 are working wonderfully together

Edited Tuesday at 04:473 days by Garbo

On 25/05/2025 at 23:27, old dee said:

Only if you want to stuff up the forward line.

I think the joke went over your head mate haha

13 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Is this a joke ??

Marshall

Sinclair

Both would be likely to be in the All Australian squad

Add in Steele and Wilkie

Higgins has 28 goals (4th on the table) and Sharman 18 goals

And highly rated youngsters like Phillipou & Wilson & Travaglia

Saints are no mugs

We should win but not to be a walk in the park

Cooper Sharnan is developing into a very good player.

He's booted 17.11 to-date including 3.3 in the Saints loss last week. He took 9 marks in that game.

Disco's oponent?

Edited Tuesday at 04:503 days by M_9

Some serious short memories here regarding Viney.

He is currently sitting 9th on the Demonland Player of the Year board, despite missing the last 3 games. I suspect he would have been top 5 before he was concussed. He was having a very solid and consistent year.

There should not be a doubt in the world that if fully fit, he comes back in and will play a mixture of midfield and high half-forward minutes, just like he was before he was concussed.

And we will be a better team because of it.

Link to POTY table

https://demonland.com/poty/

Edited Tuesday at 06:543 days by Vipercrunch