On 22/07/2025 at 14:25, KozzyCan said:

Pies got rid of Treloar and Grundy when they no longer fit into their best team. Geelong consistently attract A-grade talent

Umm didn't they mainly get rid of those players because their salary cap was 'bursting at the seams'? And weren't Collingwood paying a good portion of their salaries at their new clubs?

Edited July 24Jul 24 by Go Ds

On 23/07/2025 at 09:26, Dr. Gonzo said:

I hope Clarry has enough insight to be able to reflect on why that may be. Without wanting to say anything that will get me in trouble on here, a 27/28 yo mid should be in their prime and ripping the competition apart. It is a disservice to himself, his teammates, the club and supporters that this is not the case.

That's why we are angry @Dr. Gonzo

We traded like dog ch it after our flag triumph for the 22 season then followed it up in 23 and 24.

We spoke to the wrong players during this period why not have a convo with some great players by foot, De Ambrosio, peatling, Amon etc.

Its not all doom and gloom as we have some talented youngsters to work with, but some one has to unfortunately leave the building.

On 22/07/2025 at 20:19, KozzyCan said:

Didn't hurt them though which is my point. We've got a bunch of underperforming guys on big coin that we have held onto.

I'm not sure Treloar leaving didn't hurt them. Buckley lasted only half a season and the Pies were awful in their first year without him. Collingwood have been great since. But how much of that is McRae, Nick Daicos and other players as opposed to good planning?

12 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

That's why we are angry @Dr. Gonzo

We traded like dog ch it after our flag triumph for the 22 season then followed it up in 23 and 24.

We spoke to the wrong players during this why not have a convo with some great players by foot, De Ambrosio, peatling, Amon etc.

Its not all doom and gloom as we have some talented youngsters to work with, but some one has to unfortunately leave the building.

Do we honestly know most of the behind the scenes discussions players have with other teams? Correct me if I'm wrong but unlike players in the draft these ones can decide which clubs they move across to. Is it possible Melbourne tried to get these players in vain? Didn't North have few years where they failed to get players such as Dusty and Josh Kelly?

7 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

That's why we are angry @Dr. Gonzo

We traded like dog ch it after our flag triumph for the 22 season then followed it up in 23 and 24.

We spoke to the wrong players during this period why not have a convo with some great players by foot, De Ambrosio, peatling, Amon etc.

Its not all doom and gloom as we have some talented youngsters to work with, but some one has to unfortunately leave the building.

Agree although I remember hearing we were after Amon, we just haven't identified the right players to bring in.

On 22/07/2025 at 10:25, ElDiablo14 said:

No one is comfortable with one flag. Lot of people here have said it, Goodwin underperformed.

If you're comfortable with one flag you're likely to have been sated by a participation ribbon on sports day.

The very nature of top level competition is to WIN.. Among those winning the real WIN is to beat everyone. The Flag.

If you're not trying to win the flag. Go home. You might as well . You've abdicated your place already to someone who does.

Sadly this has been Melbourne for many a decade.

I want another flag, and another....

Edited July 24Jul 24 by beelzebub

16 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Heard this on the radio the other day

Curnow >> Suns

Trac >> Blues

Jed Walter’s >> Dees.

In a heartbeat.

Yep Jeds kicking at 0.8 G 1.0 BH That will help!

6 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Yep Jeds kicking at 0.8 G 1.0 BH That will help!

Fit right in 😉

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

If you're comfortable with one flag you're likely to have been sated by a participation ribbon on sports day.

The very nature of top level competition is to WIN.. Among those winning the real WIN is to beat everyone. The Flag.

If you're not trying to win the flag. Go home. You might as well . You've abdicated your place already to someone who does.

Sadly this has been Melbourne for many a decade.

I want another flag, and another....

I agree that every club should be aiming for only 1 result, a flag. But am I happy with 2021, yes. We were the clear number 1 side that year, most enjoyable year of footy I have had in my lifetime. Even then, imagine if there had been no 'Bang bang bang'. Then we would now be no flag.

Going into 2021 we did 3 things right. First, we recruited well, and built superstars around the ground, mostly mids and small forwards/backs with a utility ruck as an outlier. Second, we traded well and brought in a star in May, a rising star in Lever and bargains in Langdon and Hibberd and a roll of the dice on a proven but broken FF in Brown. McDonald then also had a blinder of a season. Third, we built a winning culture, we were never out of games and all the players were playing for each other and not just themselves.

Since 2021, we have continued to recruit well but name a single trade that has come in and improved the side....or even managed to stay in the best 22?? Our culture has also taken a dive into more self-centred players.

Do I totally blame the MFC, no. The competition is grossly unfair.

Let’s look at the GF appearances and wins since our 2000 appearance and the beginning of the modern 'AFL' (Feel free to point out any inaccuracies, I threw this together while at work)

Except for Sydney, who appeared as recently as last year, 3 of the top four in that table are likely to again appear this year. Hawthorn is also a smoky for a GF appearance.

On top of unfair scheduling, and the ability of some clubs to constantly attract free agents and players, most of the Grand Final winners have been lucky with fs recruits, including ourselves to an extent with Viney.

Many supporters are content with one win because honestly, we all know and fear not just being unsuccessful....but being irrelevant.

10 hours ago, Go Ds said:

I'm not sure Treloar leaving didn't hurt them. Buckley lasted only half a season and the Pies were awful in their first year without him. Collingwood have been great since. But how much of that is McRae, Nick Daicos and other players as opposed to good planning?

They obviously didn't expect to move Treloar and Grundy on when they signed them up on those deals, but when they bit the bullet and moved in a different direction they managed their list very well.

Keep in mind my initial response was to someone who was citing Collingwood as a reason to back in our coach and highly paid stars. Collingwood moved on key players and their coach and have reaped the rewards in the aftermath.

What's damning is that the reality is we're not rebuilding.

Round 1 we had 4 first year players debut for the club. I didn't count Harry Sharp or Matthew Jefferson at all because they have been in the system for a number of year. So 5 in total considering Jeffo hadn't played an AFL game yet.

Two of those players that played their first games were teenagers in Lindsay and Langford, the rest were mature age players.

Since round 1 we've had a combined total of 0 players debut since and we are currently at round 20

Both St Kilda and Carlton have had more players debut this year then Melbourne have. Obviously haven't counted the likes of North, Richmond and Essendon who also have more we have.

We have zero depth coming through and yet even what we have at Casey dont seem to be enough to warrant games.

Our development of players has completely turn to 💩 due to the management of some of our younger players in JVR, Tholstrup, Jefferson and Windsor. Refusal to reward hard work and form at Casey for the likes or Laurie, Culley and Adams.

Watched Calsher Dear last night and even Logan Morris this year and both are only in their 2nd year of AFL level and yet their impact they're making at senior level is remarkable because their respected coaches just continue to back them in and play them week in, week out.

I see poor Jefferson has been dropped tonight and yet every single Melbourne supporter know that will completely rock his confidence. Perfect opportunity this time of the year being a dead rubber and nothing to play for just to continuing to get games into him while we can.

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

What's damning is that the reality is we're not rebuilding.

Round 1 we had 4 first year players debut for the club. I didn't count Harry Sharp or Matthew Jefferson at all because they have been in the system for a number of year. So 5 in total considering Jeffo hadn't played an AFL game yet.

Two of those players that played their first games were teenagers in Lindsay and Langford, the rest were mature age players.

Since round 1 we've had a combined total of 0 players debut since and we are currently at round 20

Both St Kilda and Carlton have had more players debut this year then Melbourne have. Obviously haven't counted the likes of North, Richmond and Essendon who also have more we have.

We have zero depth coming through and yet even what we have at Casey dont seem to be enough to warrant games.

Our development of players has completely turn to 💩 due to the management of some of our younger players in JVR, Tholstrup, Jefferson and Windsor. Refusal to reward hard work and form at Casey for the likes or Laurie, Culley and Adams.

Watched Calsher Dear last night and even Logan Morris this year and both are only in their 2nd year of AFL level and yet their impact they're making at senior level is remarkable because their respected coaches just continue to back them in and play them week in, week out.

I see poor Jefferson has been dropped tonight and yet every single Melbourne supporter know that will completely rock his confidence. Perfect opportunity this time of the year being a dead rubber and nothing to play for just to continuing to get games into him while we can.

Don’t worry Dazz at least we’re bringing in Petty so that we can kick it on his head while he wrestles in the goal square

12 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

They obviously didn't expect to move Treloar and Grundy on when they signed them up on those deals, but when they bit the bullet and moved in a different direction they managed their list very well.

Keep in mind my initial response was to someone who was citing Collingwood as a reason to back in our coach and highly paid stars. Collingwood moved on key players and their coach and have reaped the rewards in the aftermath.

Umm, but did they? I already asked this. Collingwood might have gone backwards one step due to losing one or both of those players. But if the introduction of the likes of McRae, Nick Daicos and Bobby Hill moved moved them forward FOUR steps it would be easy to overlook that overall Collingwood moved three rather than four steps forward and that Grundy and Treloar's moving on were actually mistakes.

Anyway, I expect some upheaval come our finals-less September. Hopefully this will be done by competent people showing due diligence.

Do we need a rebuild?

No. We need to keep building.

Here is a potential 22 in 12 months time.

AMW Petty/Adams Howes

McVee Turner Bowey

Langdon Kozzy Windsor

xxxx xxxx Sparrow/Spargo

JVR xxxx xxxx

Max Langford Chandler

Lindsay Salem Rivers Kolt

Then we have question marks over senior players who I've left out from: Trac, Clarry, Fritta, Lever, May, Viney.

Max and Melky will play on and be integral to us for at least another season.

Can Adams and Jefferson solidify a spot in the 22? What about Kentfield? If these talls come good and can play a role like the average Collingwood talls have for the last few seasons, we can start to add the cream (ball use and pace) in that 24-28 age bracket to fill out the rest of the ground.

To me, we have to find 3-4 best 22 players in the next 12-24 months through the FA market and potentially trading out 1-2 of those senior guys above.

So it's aggressive, but not blow the place up.

My instinct at this point is that Goody is not the right guy to take us forward, but he'll have at least some of next year to prove that theory wrong.

7 hours ago, Go Ds said:

......

Anyway, I expect some upheaval come our finals-less September. Hopefully this will be done by competent people showing due diligence.

Im not being belligerent...well trying not to be.

May I ask... what will be the nature of upheaval

And who are the competent ones ?

Im actually interested to know who others consider are the people are Melbourne who actually know what they're doing and are able to instigate change.

Cheers

On 23/07/2025 at 20:44, The Jackson FIX said:

I am. Didn’t win one for 50+ years.

Sure. I wanted more, but I am happy with one flag.

said, geelong, hawthorn, collingwood never

its why they are perennial contenders and we're not

1 hour ago, BDA said:

said, geelong, hawthorn, collingwood never

its why they are perennial contenders and we're not

It’s not the reason.

But sure, if you think we aren’t winning more flags because the club don’t really want to (or in this instance one supporter was happy with winning a premiership) then go for it 👍

You don’t need a rebuild when you run the Pies to a point, Crows to goal or so, beat the Lions and Swans on their home grounds and yet are kicking like 7 year olds at a birthday partly.

What we need is some additions to the list, that just make us better and improve our skills and pace.

We don’t need a list overhaul and more years in the wilderness.

We are not that far away from being a good side.

40 minutes ago, Redleg said:

You don’t need a rebuild when you run the Pies to a point, Crows to goal or so, beat the Lions and Swans on their home grounds and yet are kicking like 7 year olds at a birthday partly.

What we need is some additions to the list, that just make us better and improve our skills and pace.

We don’t need a list overhaul and more years in the wilderness.

We are not that far away from being a good side.

I think we need to move on a few senior players to realise this though, and shift the balance towards our young talent and (hopefully) any recruits we bring in

This team can’t rely on the likes of Viney, Trac, Clarry, Salem, Lever etc. not to mention those closer to retirement like Gawn, May, McDonald and Melksham

And that’s to say nothing about our coaching and selection decisions

If our first centre bounces of 2026 has the same big three again we will be heading towards a rebuild from 2027 onwards, that’s a guarantee

11 minutes ago, demoncat said:

I think we need to move on a few senior players to realise this though, and shift the balance towards our young talent and (hopefully) any recruits we bring in

This team can’t rely on the likes of Viney, Trac, Clarry, Salem, Lever etc. not to mention those closer to retirement like Gawn, May, McDonald and Melksham

And that’s to say nothing about our coaching and selection decisions

If our first centre bounces of 2026 has the same big three again we will be heading towards a rebuild from 2027 onwards, that’s a guarantee

It's a balancing act of course, but yes we could lose a big name.

12 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Do we need a rebuild?

No. We need to keep building.

Here is a potential 22 in 12 months time.

AMW Petty/Adams Howes

McVee Turner Bowey

Langdon Kozzy Windsor

xxxx xxxx Sparrow/Spargo

JVR xxxx xxxx

Max Langford Chandler

Lindsay Salem Rivers Kolt

Then we have question marks over senior players who I've left out from: Trac, Clarry, Fritta, Lever, May, Viney.

Max and Melky will play on and be integral to us for at least another season.

Can Adams and Jefferson solidify a spot in the 22? What about Kentfield? If these talls come good and can play a role like the average Collingwood talls have for the last few seasons, we can start to add the cream (ball use and pace) in that 24-28 age bracket to fill out the rest of the ground.

To me, we have to find 3-4 best 22 players in the next 12-24 months through the FA market and potentially trading out 1-2 of those senior guys above.

So it's aggressive, but not blow the place up.

My instinct at this point is that Goody is not the right guy to take us forward, but he'll have at least some of next year to prove that theory wrong.

We’ve traded in Ed Langdon, Brodie Grundy and Lachie Hunter since 2019.

They could be considered walk up starts but we didn’t play Grundy so I’m not so sure where that leaves us.

How the hell do we find 4 in 12-24 months?

It’s not currency related, it’s getting 4 separate good players interested

Edited July 26Jul 26 by BW511

Double post

Edited July 26Jul 26 by BW511

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

You don’t need a rebuild when you run the Pies to a point, Crows to goal or so, beat the Lions and Swans on their home grounds and yet are kicking like 7 year olds at a birthday partly.

What we need is some additions to the list, that just make us better and improve our skills and pace.

We don’t need a list overhaul and more years in the wilderness.

We are not that far away from being a good side.

I dunno, I see this point to a degree but in footy close can be deceiving (ie so close yet so far).

Pies and Lions were likely in heavy training blocks when we played them so we got them at a good time.

Swans we beat at our home ground, not theirs and also got them at their lowest point ie also at a good time. Play them this week and I think we lose.

Crows started poorly then ran all over us and we could not stop them. Same as the Suns game, whenever we threatened they put the foot down and we couldn't keep up.

The worst thing a club can do is incorrectly evaluate their list/where they are at. Thinking we are just one or two players away is I think foolish and will see us end up like West Coast in another year or two.

51 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I dunno, I see this point to a degree but in footy close can be deceiving (ie so close yet so far).

Pies and Lions were likely in heavy training blocks when we played them so we got them at a good time.

Swans we beat at our home ground, not theirs and also got them at their lowest point ie also at a good time. Play them this week and I think we lose.

Crows started poorly then ran all over us and we could not stop them. Same as the Suns game, whenever we threatened they put the foot down and we couldn't keep up.

The worst thing a club can do is incorrectly evaluate their list/where they are at. Thinking we are just one or two players away is I think foolish and will see us end up like West Coast in another year or two.

Yes mixed up grounds against Swans and yes, over rating our list will influence decisions to our detriment.

I think the FD knows where we are at realistically and will try and bolster the list where needed.

That however can be difficult with many teams in similar positions and us with a lack of good picks, players on large contracts and no new home base yet.

13 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I think the FD knows where we are at realistically and will try and bolster the list where needed

I am not so sure the FD does know where we are at.