PRESEASON TRAINING & COMMUNITY CAMP

[demoncat 1,513]

40 minutes ago, rpfc said:

We are going to drive him out of the club aren’t we? We are going to self-fulfil this prophecy…

Petulance begets petulance.

And what do you guys think the above is?

m8 if Trac cared what the fans think he wouldn’t have kept us in the dark for two weeks and done so little to reaffirm his love and commitment to the club since 😅

Not that he owes us anything - it’s entirely his prerogative and I don’t think it’s healthy for us to get into parasocial relationships with athletes no matter how much we love them on the field 

But by the same token people can make a few jokes and observations based on his conduct these past few months - it’s a two way street 

Edited November 26 by demoncat

[Demonsone 2,043]

Anyone considered it’s part of his mental recovery, until people understand what trauma can do to you, eg read Nathan Camelleri story  

[djr 1,591]

8 hours ago, kev martin said:

I watched Tracc at the last Gosch's training, not closely. Appeared fine to me once he got over a bit of anxiety. My guess about the observations from Mansfield is that he is keeping a low profile. He is an emotional person, and maintaining an outward aloofness will keep those emotions in check.

What do those reading a disturbance in him want from him?

It really is about how he relates with the other players. He probably has a few relationships to build on and up. To suggest his body language is telling of a disengaged person, with all that he has to mend and deal with, is just speculative and rumour mongering.

Of course it's speculative. Like you and other track watchers, you report on what you see and observe. What we observed here in Mansfield and are being criticised for is no different from the comment you made about JVR last week - "Looked a bit bored, am worried about his training and application". Aren't you rumour mongering about JVR? I don't think so, but you get what I mean.

Edited November 26 by djr

[PaulRB 6,411]

Alternate view, Tracs criticisms were spot on, timely and subsequently acted on by the club. So he’s now keeping it in check so as to not rub salt or appear arrogant… and is now more likely than ever to be the next MFC captain…

Go Demons

[rpfc 28,739]

1 minute ago, demoncat said:

m8 if Trac cared what the fans think he wouldn’t have kept us in the dark for two weeks and done so little to reaffirm his love and commitment to the club since 😭

Not that he owes us anything - it’s entirely his prerogative and I don’t think it’s healthy for us to get into parasocial relationships with athletes no matter how much we love them on the field 

But by the same token people can make a few jokes and observations based on his behaviour - it’s a two way street 

I’m not saying you can’t do it, m8. Only that this underlying sentiment will be felt and will impact. What is said at open training sessions, on social media, at the games in the tunnel, and yes even fan forums are discussed amongst circles around players if not the players themselves, has an effect especially if it is so targeted at a player and his motivation.

Finally, you talk unhealthy para-social relationships but you talk of ‘being kept in the dark’ over the issues that CP5 was tackling. You, and others, intimate he doesn’t care about the club, fans, fans reaction. Everyone cares. No matter what ivory tower one creates; look at Elon Musk - the worlds richest man as the worlds thirstiest little man.

I am just alluding to the reality we can create for ourselves where we can help the club support someone to stick around and be a part of the Demon family.

[Deemania since 56 6,715]

8 hours ago, kev martin said:

I watched Tracc at the last Gosch's training, not closely. Appeared fine to me once he got over a bit of anxiety. My guess about the observations from Mansfield is that he is keeping a low profile. He is an emotional person, and maintaining an outward aloofness will keep those emotions in check.

What do those reading a disturbance in him want from him?

It really is about how he relates with the other players. He probably has a few relationships to build on and up. To suggest his body language is telling of a disengaged person, with all that he has to mend and deal with, is just speculative and rumour mongering.

Best summation on Tracca so far. He is, just like Viney, the heart and soul of the Demons who has agonised over a severe injury cloud for so long, so seriously, and it is imperative for the Club and the supporters to allow him to come out the other side of such trauma. Professional? No doubt in my mind. Club committed? You 'betcha. Watch Tracca take us to where we want to be in '25 ... Onyer, Tracca. 

[demoncat 1,513]

10 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I’m not saying you can’t do it, m8. Only that this underlying sentiment will be felt and will impact. What is said at open training sessions, on social media, at the games in the tunnel, and yes even fan forums are discussed amongst circles around players if not the players themselves, has an effect especially if it is so targeted at a player and his motivation.

Finally, you talk unhealthy para-social relationships but you talk of ‘being kept in the dark’ over the issues that CP5 was tackling. You, and others, intimate he doesn’t care about the club, fans, fans reaction. Everyone cares. No matter what ivory tower one creates; look at Elon Musk - the worlds richest man as the worlds thirstiest little man.

I am just alluding to the reality we can create for ourselves where we can help the club support someone to stick around and be a part of the Demon family.

Fair points, but just on the relationship between Trac and his fans - I’m not saying I was personally effected by it

Moreso that his lack of attempts to display anything other than a cursory commitment to the club this year suggests that positive fan sentiment was not a priority for him, and some of the reporting that came out around his intentions of why he wanted to leave also suggests this 

Just like we can’t control whether he goes, we also can’t control if he stays, and I don’t think a few stray comments on a forum will be the difference for him, so let’s not get too caught up in it 🤷‍♂️

[DeeZone 10,087]

1 hour ago, Neil Crompton said:

There are probably many explanations for his “perceived” behaviour. One is that people are seeing things that just aren’t there. A second is that it’s the other players that are acting cool towards Trac - perhaps they haven’t forgiven him completely yet. 

That is possible NC but maybe the teammates are being over sensitive to Tracc’s coyness, still a bit of water to go under the bridge before the team chemistry is rebuilt, this is where the coaches will be working to fully integrate Christian back into the team proper. Hard work and strong conversations are needed to bond a team ready for a big charge back up the ladder. We shouldn’t read to much into these early moments in team building.

[TheWiz 782]

23 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Fair points, but just on the relationship between Trac and his fans - I’m not saying I was personally effected by it

Moreso that his lack of attempts to display anything other than a cursory commitment to the club this year suggests that positive fan sentiment was not a priority for him, and some of the reporting that came out around his intentions of why he wanted to leave also suggests this 

Just like we can’t control whether he goes, we also can’t control if he stays, and I don’t think a few stray comments on a forum will be the difference for him, so let’s not get too caught up in it 🤷‍♂️

“Cursory commitment”… stands up in front of all the players and talks them through what he has gone through and the problems he has, publicly commits to the club, goes and does his own rehab to make sure he is able to train for the pre-season when most thought that this type of injury would potentially rule out parts of 2025.

But yeah, doesn’t smile enough. 0/10. Not enough Melbourne references in his social media. Not committed.

[waynewussell 6,237]

9 hours ago, kev martin said:

I watched Tracc at the last Gosch's training, not closely. Appeared fine to me once he got over a bit of anxiety. My guess about the observations from Mansfield is that he is keeping a low profile. He is an emotional person, and maintaining an outward aloofness will keep those emotions in check.

What do those reading a disturbance in him want from him?

It really is about how he relates with the other players. He probably has a few relationships to build on and up. To suggest his body language is telling of a disengaged person, with all that he has to mend and deal with, is just speculative and rumour mongering.

I watched the same session at Gosch's closely. I agree with everything you've said. In activities, Tracc was himself. He blended well with the newbies, he was fully committed to the ball movement exercise, and he shone with burst speed and delivery by foot. I'm prepared to believe that in Tracc's mind there may be a bit of negativity coming from other senior players, but, to my eyes, this is minimal and will dissipate as pre-Christmas training continues.

[demoncat 1,513]

3 minutes ago, TheWiz said:

“Cursory commitment”… stands up in front of all the players and talks them through what he has gone through and the problems he has, publicly commits to the club, goes and does his own rehab to make sure he is able to train for the pre-season when most thought that this type of injury would potentially rule out parts of 2025.

But yeah, doesn’t smile enough. 0/10. Not enough Melbourne references in his social media. Not committed.

I was referring to public statements made by him but pop off brother 

[rpfc 28,739]

38 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Fair points, but just on the relationship between Trac and his fans - I’m not saying I was personally effected by it

Moreso that his lack of attempts to display anything other than a cursory commitment to the club this year suggests that positive fan sentiment was not a priority for him, and some of the reporting that came out around his intentions of why he wanted to leave also suggests this 

Just like we can’t control whether he goes, we also can’t control if he stays, and I don’t think a few stray comments on a forum will be the difference for him, so let’s not get too caught up in it 🤷‍♂️

Yeah, I don’t care what DemonBro69 says on here - I just see Demonland as the precursor to underlying sentiment of Dees fans. And that permeates through to game day, interactions on the street, and general ‘conversation’ in footy media (talking about thirsty little men).

Even my ‘hardly follow the footy’ mother told me last week that “we’re off Petracca” with a look like she just ate a lemon. 

I just think we, as fans, can be the beggars to our own demise in this story or we can move past it and help to tell a new one.

[kev martin 10,404]

@djr

With JVR, I reckon he is struggling to take the needed next step in his development. He can appear to get down when he misses goals or those easy marks. He drops his head and doesn't go at "it" as hard, for a while. I think he needs a personal motivator or some leaders to get round him, when he misses. Confidence will improve him. Kick a bag full and be clean with his marks, and we have a champion. High with expectations, the pressure is on him this year and my guess, he is feeling it already. Though that is my opinion about JVR, you are right about mongering.

Tracc is in a different boat, as he struggled with body and mind, and then his attempt to leave the club. If I was him my strategy would be to keep a low key within the team as I attempt to mend/create bridges, and gain the trust again. Which is how I interpreted his behaviour. 

Similar to how Clarry went about it last season. Low key, minimal displays of attention seeking behaviour and well down the pecking order. He is back to his extrovert and happy self now. Hoping Tracc is of the same mindset, but of course, you may be right and it is petulance that you observe. If so, then an immaturity pervades him, which will not serve him or the club. I know which interpretation I would prefer, "glass half-full".

Edited November 26 by kev martin

[BC_1718_DC 1,361]

27 minutes ago, kev martin said:

@djr

With JVR, I reckon he is struggling to take the needed next step in his development. He can appear to get down when he misses goals or those easy marks. He drops his head and doesn't go at "it" as hard, for a while. I think he needs a personal motivator or some leaders to get round him, when he misses. Confidence will improve him. Kick a bag full and be clean with his marks, and we have a champion. High with expectations, the pressure is on him this year and my guess, he is feeling it already. Though that is my opinion about JVR, you are right about mongering.

Tracc is in a different boat, as he struggled with body and mind, and then his attempt to leave the club. If I was him my strategy would be to keep a low key within the team as I attempt to mend/create bridges, and gain the trust again. Which is how I interpreted his behaviour. 

Similar to how Clarry went about it last season. Low key, minimal displays of attention seeking behaviour and well down the pecking order. He is back to his extrovert and happy self now. Hoping Tracc is of the same mindset, but of course, you may be right and it is petulance that you observe. If so, then an immaturity pervades him, which will not serve him or the club. I know which interpretation I would prefer, "glass half-full".

The club need to and should have a long time get a part time forwards coach (who was actually a forward) to come and work and develop the big boys.

 

Cam Mooney did it part time last season with the Giants and all of those forwards said how valuable his knowledge was. A Tom Hawkins or a Jack Riewoldt (yes I know he’s with Tasmania). Doesn’t have to be full time but a couple of trainings a week to help them. 
 

it’s a blight on the club that this has never happened. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,936]

26 minutes ago, kev martin said:

@djr

With JVR, I reckon he is struggling to take the needed next step in his development. He can appear to get down when he misses goals or those easy marks. He drops his head and doesn't go at "it" as hard, for a while. I think he needs a personal motivator or some leaders to get round him, when he misses. Confidence will improve him. Kick a bag full and be clean with his marks, and we have a champion. High with expectations, the pressure is on him this year and my guess, he is feeling it already. Though that is my opinion about JVR, you are right about mongering.

Might be a carry over from his last month of footy where he tailed write off and isn't happy with that result.

Goaless against the Dogs, subbed out against Port, a nice 3 goal game but only 2 marks against GC and a career worst game against Collingwood where he only got 18 dream team points which is extremely low.

Needs to get back on the bike early next season with a 4 goal game and he'll get his confidence back. Perhaps less responsibility in the ruck may benefit him.

 

 

 

[BC_1718_DC 1,361]

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Might be a carry over from his last month of footy where he tailed write off and isn't happy with that result.

Goaless against the Dogs, subbed out against Port, a nice 3 goal game but only 2 marks against GC and a career worst game against Collingwood where he only got 18 dream team points which is extremely low.

Needs to get back on the bike early next season with a 4 goal game and he'll get his confidence back. Perhaps less responsibility in the ruck may benefit him.

 

 

 

Your last point is the most apt. Stop playing the kid in the bloody ruck.

 

let him be a forward and develop as one.

We lose so much when he goes out of the forward line. 

[kev martin 10,404]

7 minutes ago, 12345_54321 said:

The club need to and should have a long time get a part time forwards coach (who was actually a forward) to come and work and develop the big boys.

 

Cam Mooney did it part time last season with the Giants and all of those forwards said how valuable his knowledge was. A Tom Hawkins or a Jack Riewoldt (yes I know he’s with Tasmania). Doesn’t have to be full time but a couple of trainings a week to help them. 
 

it’s a blight on the club that this has never happened. 

Totally agree, someone who has "been there done that", I feel will really help JVR with his confidence and execution. Reshape that rough diamond by giving very personal attention to him. Lyon or Schwarz an hour a week at training may do it.

[Kent 2,913]

1 hour ago, waynewussell said:

I watched the same session at Gosch's closely. I agree with everything you've said. In activities, Tracc was himself. He blended well with the newbies, he was fully committed to the ball movement exercise, and he shone with burst speed and delivery by foot. I'm prepared to believe that in Tracc's mind there may be a bit of negativity coming from other senior players, but, to my eyes, this is minimal and will dissipate as pre-Christmas training continues.

So what was Tracs problem after his injury did he blame the club why was /is he peed off?

[BC_1718_DC 1,361]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

So what was Tracs problem after his injury did he blame the club why was /is he peed off?

No matter what happens, it’s never Trac’s fault… if you ask him. 

[waynewussell 6,237]

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

So what was Tracs problem after his injury did he blame the club why was /is he peed off?

He may have had a 'problem' before the injury. The injury may have been the last straw. In response to your question: We don't know the answer. We may find out in time, but the only person who can provide the answer is Tracc, and he hasn't made it clear to the general supporters at this point.

[picket fence 17,485]

13 hours ago, Matt Demon said:

There's something off with Trac at the moment. I watched him closely this morning, he's not acting his usual self out on the track. It's like he's trying to be super professional but trying not to enjoy himself or buy in, that's the vibe I'm getting. Also have a look at his post on IG from last pre season compared to now. He refuses to acknowledge the club or any team mates in any social media. 

Yeah coz he does NOT want to be there thats why!

[kev martin 10,404]

31 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Might be a carry over from his last month of footy where he tailed write off and isn't happy with that result.

Goaless against the Dogs, subbed out against Port, a nice 3 goal game but only 2 marks against GC and a career worst game against Collingwood where he only got 18 dream team points which is extremely low.

Needs to get back on the bike early next season with a 4 goal game and he'll get his confidence back. Perhaps less responsibility in the ruck may benefit him.

JVR

My guess is, our delivery into the forwards this season will be very different. Chaplin is working with the high forwards and mids, as much as he is with the forwards. 

Also, looks like they are going to go with the hard running transition game, chase the ball with a swarm, and play a high forward line.

Great patterns of delivery can help JVR have a great season, though, last time we did that we got the flubber legs, missed easy kicks, and failed to run out games and quarters, swings and roundabouts.

I also think we are trying to work on stopping teams using those dinky kicks, possession games, to slice us up.

Edited November 26 by kev martin

[John Demonic 5,850]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, I don’t care what DemonBro69 says on here - I just see Demonland as the precursor to underlying sentiment of Dees fans. And that permeates through to game day, interactions on the street, and general ‘conversation’ in footy media (talking about thirsty little men).

Even my ‘hardly follow the footy’ mother told me last week that “we’re off Petracca” with a look like she just ate a lemon. 

I just think we, as fans, can be the beggars to our own demise in this story or we can move past it and help to tell a new one.

Did you get your mum back on tracc? 

[djr 1,591]

14 minutes ago, kev martin said:

@djr

With JVR, I reckon he is struggling to take the needed next step in his development. He can appear to get down when he misses goals or those easy marks. He drops his head and doesn't go at "it" as hard, for a while. I think he needs a personal motivator or some leaders to get round him, when he misses. Confidence will improve him. Kick a bag full and been clean with his marks and we have a champion. High with expectations, the pressure is on him this year and my guess, he is feeling it already. Though that is my opinion about JVR, you are right about mongering.

Tracc is in a different boat, as he struggled with body and mind, and then his attempt to leave the club. If I was him my strategy would be to keep a low key within the team as I attempt to mend/create bridges, and gain the trust again. Which is how I interpreted his behaviour. 

Similar to how Clarry went about it last season. Low key, minimal displays of attention seeking behaviour and well down the pecking order. He is back to his extrovert and happy self now. Hoping Tracc is of the same mindset, but of course, you may be right and it is petulance that you observe. If so, then an immaturity pervades him, which will not serve him or the club. I know which interpretation I would prefer, "glass half-full".

Hey Kev, I don't think it was petulance that the track watchers observed here. Like what you saw in JVR, it was his body language. Yes, he was committed in all training drills and had arms around other players' shoulders. Simply put, he just did not seem happy. As opposed to Clarry, who did seem content. That is all that we noticed. Nothing more, nothing less. It could be any or all of what you have mentioned: he wants to keep a low profile, mend/create bridges, and try to gain trust again. Time will tell.

[rpfc 28,739]

21 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Did you get your mum back on tracc? 

I asked her if she could name the number he wore on his back, and left the conversation with that silence.

Edited November 27 by rpfc