Daniher

[Pello 1]

It isnt Daniher we need to get rid of. Its half the Football Department and some of the players.

My god - I can't believe people still want ND. I am not judging him on this year. I am judging him on 10 years of:

1. An unimaginative game plan

2. An inability to react on game day (has no killer moves to change the course of the game)

3. Inconsistent performances of players week to week which must also reflect on coaching.

4. Inability to recruit key position players to replace Neitz and White.

5. Playing his favourites at the expense of others development, eg, Jamar instead of PJ,

6. Not taking risks at selection, ie playing Newton, Buckley etc

Its been 10 years and we have played finals a number of times but he hasn't been able to take us to the next level. Lets move him on and some of the players you mention as well but most importantly - lets move him on!

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

It isnt Daniher we need to get rid of. Its half the Football Department and some of the players.

My god - I can't believe people still want ND. I am not judging him on this year. I am judging him on 10 years of:

1. An unimaginative game plan

2. An inability to react on game day (has no killer moves to change the course of the game)

3. Inconsistent performances of players week to week which must also reflect on coaching.

4. Inability to recruit key position players to replace Neitz and White.

5. Playing his favourites at the expense of others development, eg, Jamar instead of PJ,

6. Not taking risks at selection, ie playing Newton, Buckley etc

Its been 10 years and we have played finals a number of times but he hasn't been able to take us to the next level. Lets move him on and some of the players you mention as well but most importantly - lets move him on!

Booooo

[Jaded No More 67,609]

Who's to say Neale has tried to "copy" anyone? Before the season the coaching staff identified our weaknesses and tried to address them.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you (and by you I mean many people, not just yourself Clint) are forming an opinion from your interpretation on about 1% of all the facts, the other 99% of which are unavailable to the general supporter. It's why I won't make a call on Daniher one way or the other, because I believe I don't know enough to fully understand the situation.

It's why I hope the board are thorough in their review at season's end. They have access to all the facts that I (we) don't.

Firstly, we know as much about our players as we do about our coach of 10 years.

As supporters and members, we are all entitled to give our thoughts on the coaching position, and express our desires, be it for or against Daniher.

This entire website lives on the opinions of people, even if they are not always 100% in the know.

As for the board's review, it will be starting as early as this week I believe, and I assure you they won't be coming to Demonland for advice :D

[beelzebub 23,191]

As for the board's review, it will be starting as early as this week I believe, and I assure you they won't be coming to Demonland for advice :D

NO ??

who this bloke Gardner on the phone !!

what ??

........................ he's THE Gardener !!

..........................from Jim's !!!

oh..my mistake..

apparently youre right Jaded !!

[Nasher 33,607]

As supporters and members, we are all entitled to give our thoughts on the coaching position, and express our desires, be it for or against Daniher.

This entire website lives on the opinions of people, even if they are not always 100% in the know.

I'm not denying anyone their right to an opinion Jaded, I even said that. I'm just saying that I can't hope to make an informed decision on this matter and I fail to see how anyone else can.

People can say what they want and have their own opinions. My opinion is that they're forming their opinion on the basis of little.

I do have my own thoughts about which way I believe the club should go, but this thread asks for what "I want", and what I want is for the board to make an informed decision based on thorough research on the future of this club. That's all I want.

[beelzebub 23,191]

I'm denying anyone their right to an opinion Jaded, ....

freudian slip ?? lol...

[Jaded No More 67,609]

and what I want is for the board to make an informed decision based on thorough research on the future of this club. That's all I want.

How is that different from saying "we should debut Newton" or "play the kids" or "we should kick the ball long into our forward line"?

We just want what we want... and isn't it a pity we can't all get what we wish for?!

[Nasher 33,607]

I've never made any of those comments either Jaded, for the same reason. :D

You're right though, those usual comments you mentioned are exactly the same and I feel the same way about them as I do this poll. They're overly simplistic one liners that make no attempt to address the real issues or weigh up the pros and cons of the debate.

If someone started any of the following threads, based on your one liners there:

Should we debut Newton: Yes/No

Should we just play the kids from now on: Yes/No

Shouldwe always just kick the ball long into our forward line: Yes/No

My response would be identical as above.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If someone started any of the following threads, based on your one liners there:

Should we debut Newton: Yes/No

Should we just play the kids from now on: Yes/No

Shouldwe always just kick the ball long into our forward line: Yes/No

That's why when someone makes a poll asking a simple question, people can elaborate on why they have made that decision in the forum below.

[Real Demon 232]

All I ask for is that the board, AT THE END OF THE SEASON, sit down and do a full review of the FD and figure out what is the best way forward. I don't really mind what the outcome is, so long as I'm comfortable that the review was thorough and every possible avenue explored.

No person on the outer has enough facts to judge who would be the best coach for the coming seasons. That's why I think what we "want" is a moot point.

I tend to agree.......as much as we are all armchair experts, we have no real idea about the inner workings of the club, the approach Daniher uses, the respect or otherwise he has of the players, the quality of the assistants etc etc etc.

I have enough faith in the current board who are working hard for the club at present to make an informed and clear thinking decision in regards to the coach for next season. If it is Daniher, then so be it. I have stated previously that I believe a change in coach is due, and could be a real positive, but that is based on nothing more than a "gut feel" and a few assumptions I have made from watching the team play.

[45HG 1,539]

pretty boring forum this would turn into, if no one is allowed to comment on anything they don't know 100% about, which as you say no general supporter does.

[deefuture06 0]

We would have to find a coach who is considered to be better than ND. If Voss wanted to become an assistant I would be happy if it was under neale. I think that the other experienced coaches wont be available until after next season. ie. Pagan?

[Real Demon 232]

pretty boring forum this would turn into, if no one is allowed to comment on anything they don't know 100% about, which as you say no general supporter does.

Supporters can comment all they want............my only advice is to take comments with a grain of salt!

There are a lot of people who get mighty worked up about such topics......but why?

Sure.....they are passionate, love the club, believe strongly in what they are saying.......but apart from watching the games, and reading the papers, have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

Yet supporters still demand the coach be sacked, footy department be sacked etc......making calls on peoples employment and lives with nothing more than an armchair view of the situation.

It's a bit of fun to get caught up in the mob mentality, and cry for the coach to be sacked, but is it really the right decision? I don't know.......I have a general feeling it may help going forward, but I don't really have a clue. I'll leave it to the people who work day in day out at the club, and have a greater insight into the situation than I could ever hope to have.

[45HG 1,539]

yeah i know exactly what you're saying, i'm just saying that as a forum, it is here that we discuss the possibilities, pros and cons of different aspects of the club that we can see from our position. i presonally don't use it to argue to sack the coach etc, rather the ways in which i think it can be helped, fully aware that i don't know nearly all of the facts.

where i think argument falls on forum's such as these are issues like newton, where people continuously bring up the 'need' for him to play asap. such conversation after a while has just become circular and is in no way productive or interesting because we don't have the inside knowledge. on the other hand, issues such as good players, gameplan etc. should be discussed because we do not have to know all the details to engage in informative, interesting discussion

[NO MERGER 20]

Yes...our boys have said week in and out they wants to do their best for him.

[QueenC 74]

Supporters can comment all they want............my only advice is to take comments with a grain of salt!

There are a lot of people who get mighty worked up about such topics......but why?

Sure.....they are passionate, love the club, believe strongly in what they are saying.......but apart from watching the games, and reading the papers, have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

Yet supporters still demand the coach be sacked, footy department be sacked etc......making calls on peoples employment and lives with nothing more than an armchair view of the situation.

It's a bit of fun to get caught up in the mob mentality, and cry for the coach to be sacked, but is it really the right decision? I don't know.......I have a general feeling it may help going forward, but I don't really have a clue. I'll leave it to the people who work day in day out at the club, and have a greater insight into the situation than I could ever hope to have.

Great post Real Demon......

I agree with you entirely in that we cast aspersions and make opinions without knowing all the facts and the ones we do have are from an outside perspective.

This is not always a bad thing and it is always interesting (well, nearly always) and generally entertaining, but it is probably worth remembering that we are still dealing with people and their lives and livelihoods (whether that be player, coach or whoever) and maybe we shouldn't be so flippant with that.

I said earlier that I really have no concrete idea whether Neale should or shouldn't continue on as our coach.

I can see and understand both sides of the argument and both make sense.

And while this year is nearly impossible to judge him on there is still the other ten years in which we really haven't achieved the heights we all assume we should have. And there are a number of other valid concerns regarding his coaching. The flip side is that he is now and has been great for the club, giving us stability and he is an excellent spokesman to try and get our voice heard in such a crowded marketplace.

But at the end of the day is that enough to judge a coach on, or should it be just about what goes on on the field?

And after ten years on the face of it he probably and unfortunately comes up a bit short.

But if the board chooses not to replace him this year (a decision that they have a hell of a lot more understanding of than any of us here would, I hope) then he will continue to have my full and undivided support. But they had better get this decision right, for the future of the club.

[Nasher 33,607]

pretty boring forum this would turn into, if no one is allowed to comment on anything they don't know 100% about, which as you say no general supporter does.

That's not what I was suggesting at all. I give up.

Great post Real Demon, I think you've done a much better job of summing up than I have.

[deanox 9,641]

It's not rocket surgery.

The decisions that Daniher makes seem to fail an awful lot and he does apparently know the "reasoning or logic" behind them.

It's funny that in three quarters of football (last quarter vs Kangaroos, second and third quarters against Adelaide) when Melbourne opt for a style of play that doesn't involve "tempo" or "runs and curry" and instead focuses on long kicks and fast movement into a forward line with forwards in it (it's crazy, I know) that Melbourne suddenly play well.

But Daniher does not employ these tactics more often.

If Daniher is coach next year, then I just hope that the Kangaroos win the flag because at least then he'll copy a game plan that suits Melbourne.

my bet is that you dont even understand what 'run and carry' means. of course we used run and carry on the weekend. you run with the ball through the midfield. if you get the ball and are in a pressure situation you handball it our until you have a loose man.

for most of this year we have stood flat footed and handball to players not moving and who were about to be tackled. that is not run and carry. thats handball in circles. we are a running team. we played our best footy last season when we ran hard and kicked long. nothing has changed.

we did use tempo footy on the weekend a number of times. when the adelaide side manned up we set up wall along half back and kicked it to each other until we could find a gap. we slowed the pace down, we didnt just try to run and kick long. tempo footy worked for us at times on saturday.

i dont know why you think you can just run and bomb it long all day. perhaps because you have your own agenda you are pushing RE danniher but if you are going to commentate on tactics used in the game think about it first.

[Jarka 767]

my bet is that you dont even understand what 'run and carry' means. of course we used run and carry on the weekend. you run with the ball through the midfield. if you get the ball and are in a pressure situation you handball it our until you have a loose man.

for most of this year we have stood flat footed and handball to players not moving and who were about to be tackled. that is not run and carry. thats handball in circles. we are a running team. we played our best footy last season when we ran hard and kicked long. nothing has changed.

we did use tempo footy on the weekend a number of times. when the adelaide side manned up we set up wall along half back and kicked it to each other until we could find a gap. we slowed the pace down, we didnt just try to run and kick long. tempo footy worked for us at times on saturday.

i dont know why you think you can just run and bomb it long all day. perhaps because you have your own agenda you are pushing RE danniher but if you are going to commentate on tactics used in the game think about it first.

We've also failed dismally when it's really counted playing this style of footy, Daniher's coaching won't win us a premierhship.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

my bet is that you dont even understand what 'run and carry' means...

This was the first game (not including the last quarter against the Kangaroos) that Melbourne predominantly used long and direct kicking.

[deanox 9,641]

This was the first game (not including the last quarter against the Kangaroos) that Melbourne predominantly used long and direct kicking.

i think key there is direct, clint. anyone can bomb it long, that wont win us the ball or win us games. ward is a perfect example of this. our skill level has been down, through what ever reason (ND's coaching, injuries, who cares) and we havnt been able to kick it both long and accurately. run and carry is a method of getting the ball to a free player so that he can kick it long and accurately without being under physical pressure.

you are correct though. our long kicking game was on song this week. could the addition of mclean to the midfield winning the ball make it easier for our outside midfielders to use the ball? the addition of wheatley definitely helped in this area.

[beelzebub 23,191]

to me the difference was we started hitting targets.. as simple as that.. Created a far more positive game ...well untill the last quarter.

[old55 22,758]

I understand what you're saying, but when you go to the games and see how damn obvious the mistakes Daniher makes are, it's not hard to see where the heart of Melbourne's problems lie.

This was the first game (not including the last quarter against the Kangaroos) that Melbourne predominantly used long and direct kicking.

If it's so obvious Clint, then please explain this:

Melbourne 2007 season:

Long Kicks = 589, Total Disposals = 3458, % Long Kicks = 17.0%

Mellbourne vs Adelaide:

Long Kicks = 60, Total Disposals = 368, % Long Kicks = 16.3%

(stats from Pro-Stats)

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If it's so obvious Clint, then please explain this:

Melbourne 2007 season:

Long Kicks = 589, Total Disposals = 3458, % Long Kicks = 17.0%

Mellbourne vs Adelaide:

Long Kicks = 60, Total Disposals = 368, % Long Kicks = 16.3%

(stats from Pro-Stats)

Have you got a stat for long and direct kicks?

The fact is that Melbourne played a much more attacking style of play. Do you agree?

[beelzebub 23,191]

stats on their own are absolutely useless.

take for eg. a long kick..

was it ?

a) to a contest

B) to a target

c) to a target but the receiver had to back peddle and lose positional advantage

d) to no one

e) out of bounds

probably half a dozen other variations easily..

point is.. its context...or more simply what was the result good, bad..or what in between.

now take same and aplly to hit outs, handballs, short kicks scrimmages etc etc etc..

the powers of observation will far outweigh sheer stats !!