23 hours ago, beelzebub said:

We are reaping the 'rewards' of that very mistake.

Quite frankly it was amateur hour at the Dees.

Absolutely and we lost Yze as a result

Club management is a joke

I think we have self interested [censored] running the board whose main activity is maintainence of their positions

Green should distance himself before they sacrifice him

8 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Absolutely and we lost Yze as a result

Club management is a joke

I think we have self interested [censored] running the board whose main activity is maintainence of their positions

Green should distance himself before they sacrifice him

What should have happened after 2023.

One year extension of Simon's contract until end of 2025.

Already prepared the transition plan for Yze to take over in 2026.

2025 Simon would be coaching as a 'caretaker' with Yze behind the 4 walls preparing his vision of MFC 2.0 post 2021 premiership.

One can daydream.

P

Edited July 1Jul 1 by Billy

1 hour ago, Bowserpower said:

Strong words.

Sacking him after the straight sets losses would have been harsh.

Yes - but good clubs are strong. Make a mistake once - fine. Do it again?

We are now going backwards at a rate of knots and with Tasmania coming in soon we are in serious jeopardy of not playing finals for a long time. And again, we are setting up the young players to fail because we have no quality between the age of 23-28.

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

U are kidding right?? You want to swap Clarry for a much more damaged Ugle Hagen, nar wont happen, according to an influencial mate down Geelong way cats are still highly interested in securing Clarries services!

Pickett genuinely interested in your thoughts regarding what we do with Clarry

I like you have been his No1 &No2 fan of him & rate him when at his prime as one of our best ever

Don’t know where it goes from here?

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Yes quite possibly. But you know its a big bad world out there. In many fields failure is NOT rewarded.

Our club absolutely blinked at the end of 23 !!

That he is still in charge come end of 25 with an even worsening record is testament to how gutless and I mean GUTLESS , nee self serving this club can be.

If ever an organisation should adopt a logo of cutting off one's nose it must surely be us.

It's often proffered that we aren't a serious club. Is it any wonder.

Sometimes it isn't better to choose the devil you know, sometimes you need to start anew.

Fool me once..

Twice...

Three times

Four for luck..

[censored].. how stupid are we ?

Nail. HIT. on. Head

3 hours ago, Red and Blue Flame said:

The reality is, it is completely irrelevant who we play in the run home. He should be judged on our season.

Having finished bottom 6 last year, another bottom 6 finish SHOULD see him out the door. So whether we win 5,6,7,8 or 9 games, we will be bottom 6.

I am sick of the club accepting mediocrity - they could've sacked him after 2 straights exits, but they didn't. They could've sacked him last year, but told us there was a wide scale review, off field change etc etc...and with 8 weeks to go, we are on 5 wins.

So if we really click in the last 6-8 rounds including winning our last 3 rounds in dominant displays you would advocate sacking the coach in the basis that we missed finals?

I'm disappointed with our inconsistency this year, especially how poorly we have performed against middling sides, but want to see us back in contention next year.

9 minutes ago, chookrat said:

So if we really click in the last 6-8 rounds including winning our last 3 rounds in dominant displays you would advocate sacking the coach in the basis that we missed finals?

I'm disappointed with our inconsistency this year, especially how poorly we have performed against middling sides, but want to see us back in contention next year.

Have we been consistent under Goodwin?

If you really dissect his tenure, it really feels like a roller coaster of highs and lows. Fun ride not gonna lie.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Yes quite possibly. But you know its a big bad world out there. In many fields failure is NOT rewarded.

Our club absolutely blinked at the end of 23 !!

That he is still in charge come end of 25 with an even worsening record is testament to how gutless and I mean GUTLESS , nee self serving this club can be.

If ever an organisation should adopt a logo of cutting off one's nose it must surely be us.

It's often proffered that we aren't a serious club. Is it any wonder.

Sometimes it isn't better to choose the devil you know, sometimes you need to start anew.

Fool me once..

Twice...

Three times

Four for luck..

[censored].. how stupid are we ?

I think the boardroom is also partially to blame. Pert and Roffney did win us a flag, but clearly lacked the leadership and resolve to get us through the turbulence we faced in the last 2-3 years. Maybe nobody in the industry has/had the foresight to navigate that.

Whats not really discussed in public is the absolute rotten luck we got with Clarry, Gus and Trac all being dealt really significant blows. Our engine room full of a-graders were bought to its knees. There is really no contingency to prepare you for that. We needed some stability, and the timing of Goody's re-signing came at the worst possible time. The reality is we probably signed him up for 1 year too long.

The other aspect to this - again something that Goody takes an absolute bashing for - is our recruitment and development. This was all set in motion with Roosy and PJ. The inside, contested game. Remember we wanted a list that was built for finals football and when the rebuild kicked off back then, it was about contest. Even to this day, contest is a fundamental of all good sides, its what comes post-contest that we lack in. We overinvested in the contest and stoppage. This was further exposed with the retirement of Gus, who was a good outside player and fall from grace of Salem, who was the other weapon off half-back. Just about everything that could go wrong, did.

Goody has changed the gameplan - our ball movement is aligned to the modern way but our execution is letting us down. Bottom line is we wont succeed with the list that we have. Im sure everybody within the club is more than aware of this. We have to make some really hard calls (as does Carlton), which will determine how long we are stuck in this rut.

Bottom line: Sacking Goody now or next year will not make up for the deficit in our list profile. He will get us playing the right way, but want be able to teach the 'old dogs, new tricks'.

2 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

If that was the norm, Demonland would collapse into the ground with very minimal traffic.
It's not bee a pleasant 24 months.

The irony: it’s the relentless negativity and nastiness that has already impacted the amount of traffic on here.

21 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

The irony: it’s the relentless negativity and nastiness that has already impacted the amount of traffic on here.

I may be wrong, but traffic would be highest when winning a lot and losing a lot. People jump on and off leaving the die hards here for it all :P

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Would have been the best thing to do.

Straight Sets on the Home Deck should be viewed as unacceptable.

We are now where we are….

I do wonder sometimes if you all know what you are talking about

1 minute ago, Bowserpower said:

I do wonder sometimes if you all know what you are talking about

And you think correct decisions were made?

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And you think correct decisions were made?

Well it's not a terrible decision to keep a coach that made top 4 3 years in a row.

1 minute ago, Bowserpower said:

Well it's not a terrible decision to keep a coach that made top 4 3 years in a row.

But who lost 4 consecutive Finals…September is a different Season

Goodwin had been worked out by opposition Coaches, it has only become more obvious since then

11 minutes ago, Bowserpower said:

Well it's not a terrible decision to keep a coach that made top 4 3 years in a row.

A flag and three 16 win H/A seasons and the revisionists would have sacked him

lol

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But who lost 4 consecutive Finals…September is a different Season

Goodwin had been worked out by opposition Coaches, it has only become more obvious since then

Which is why they're giving him a chance to adapt the game plan/style with what appears to be a fairly obvious timeframe/KPI's.

I don't like it necessarily but they'll give him the rest of this season and next to really implement the changes, which has been pretty obviously indicated. Its been noted by many that swinging larger gameplans changes especially dramatically offense wise isn't something you can suddently fix or get right in a single off season (yes yes should have happened earlier) so we've been commended by decent media heads for adapting/learning the new faster gameplan on the fly which is working in patches.

Seems like the playing group still trusts and respects him so they're not going to blow it up for the sake of it just yet.

Whether we like it or not he's not going anywhere anytime soon. But fine with people venting about it as the ol tradition when its not going great.

I still feel like our fitness is the concern with us dropping off in games more then we used to with energy/effort. That was always our staple over the last four or so years.

2 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Which is why they're giving him a chance to adapt the game plan/style with what appears to be a fairly obvious timeframe/KPI's.

I don't like it necessarily but they'll give him the rest of this season and next to really implement the changes, which has been pretty obviously indicated. Its been noted by many that swinging larger gameplans changes especially dramatically offense wise isn't something you can suddently fix or get right in a single off season (yes yes should have happened earlier) so we've been commended by decent media heads for adapting/learning the new faster gameplan on the fly which is working in patches.

Seems like the playing group still trusts and respects him so they're not going to blow it up for the sake of it just yet.

Whether we like it or not he's not going anywhere anytime soon. But fine with people venting about it as the ol tradition when its not going great.

I still feel like our fitness is the concern with us dropping off in games more then we used to with energy/effort. That was always our staple over the last four or so years.

I agree with the fitness, but am also concerned about the coma we appeared to be in at the start of some of the games this year. Case in point the last game against the Suns. That does not come down to fitness, and we came off a bye! I don't think we are fit, but I also don't think we're mind fit, either.

4 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Which is why they're giving him a chance to adapt the game plan/style with what appears to be a fairly obvious timeframe/KPI's.

I don't like it necessarily but they'll give him the rest of this season and next to really implement the changes, which has been pretty obviously indicated. Its been noted by many that swinging larger gameplans changes especially dramatically offense wise isn't something you can suddently fix or get right in a single off season (yes yes should have happened earlier) so we've been commended by decent media heads for adapting/learning the new faster gameplan on the fly which is working in patches.

Seems like the playing group still trusts and respects him so they're not going to blow it up for the sake of it just yet.

Whether we like it or not he's not going anywhere anytime soon. But fine with people venting about it as the ol tradition when its not going great.

I still feel like our fitness is the concern with us dropping off in games more then we used to with energy/effort. That was always our staple over the last four or so years.

No it’s not fitness as such. Last week proved that. After a bye, we were served up that rubbish.

It’s 90% above the shoulders. These guys can play at a high level, they just don’t feel like giving that extra 1-2% that the Top 4 Teams do regularly

That has got to come back to the Coach when it is across the whole team

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No it’s not fitness as such. Last week proved that. After a bye, we were served up that rubbish.

It’s 90% above the shoulders. These guys can play at a high level, they just don’t feel like giving that extra 1-2% that the Top 4 Teams do regularly

That has got to come back to the Coach when it is across the whole team

Fair enough, you're probably right and know more than i do.

On 28/06/2025 at 22:57, Howard_Grimes said:

The theory that we had/have 'the most demanding' game style as being a reason for our poor performances is just another excuse pushed out to the front of the queue, masking the more pressing issues that have plagued us for a long time.

It's the same brigade that spruik the 'loading' talk.

And whilst I value Binman's thoughtfulness, articulation and deep-dive into all things stats, I think this place has turned into an echo-chamber of sorts thanks to some of the same excuses getting far too much airtime.

The idea and theory that we are not fit enough is just wild and flies in the face of the excuse of the last few years around not having our best players on the park. We've had arguably the best run with injury of all clubs this year, a much kinder draw and now the goal posts have been shifted by the same brigade toward 'mini rebuild/game-plan teething' issue.

Every year an excuse is thrown up and pushed to the front and it's a rinse and repeat situation with a handful of the same ones on rotation. All the while, the symptoms persist and issues remain.

Perhaps the idea of over-complicating some pretty straight forward corrections is just a more interesting pastime for some and is also a less painful lens to look through? That's how I see it.

Now having said all of this, it's not that I'm entirely counting out any influence that these 'rinse and repeat reasons' might have had along the way. They're wholeheartedly interlinked to the ACTUAL issues that plague us.

Take the idea/theory that we don't look 'fit enough' as an example.

And perhaps I can insert myself into this example as I've experienced it in real time myself during my footballing days to a high level I might add.

If you work your [censored] off all game both offensively and defensively, to create space, shut down space, support, become an option, be used as an option and your team mates more often than not butcher the ball around the ground but more importantly on transition/turnover and going inside 50, you are going to experience some pretty significant fatigue.

Now the fatigue won't just be physical if this trend continues, (which for Melb it does), the fatigue also becomes mental. It makes you question whether or not you should run to make that space if a particular player who is prone to turning the ball over may be flying through the middle only to kick with absolutely no care.

Now if you span this out over a season or even seasons, you can see how this fatigue can manifest in all sorts of ways.

But. The easy thing to say is, 'oh we're just not fit enough'.

No.

The same entirely goes with loading.

I would put far more emphasis on the idea of mental fatigue being the more significant factor game to game with us, in part because of what I outlined above. But not limited to. I'd also say match-day crowds at the G, personal life, motivation levels, belief in Goody, the system, each other. All of these factors I'd have ahead of loading. Yet they can't be measured so nobody wants to talk about them whereas the idea of loading can be used an excuse for a loss! Or at least contribute to the 'fatigue' posters see in a loss.

Also no.

Our issues are simply tied to our list and to the coach. Plain, simple, boring and some would say negative. List imbalance and a coach who has been too slow and too stubborn to move forward from what won us a flag.

Of course it's easier to look at 'outside factors' because it feels better and it makes for interesting hypothesising. But it's just that.

Some of this is fair, but your centrepiece of mental fatigue doesn't really hold given the amount of best 22 changes over the last 4 years. It's practically half the best 22, and it's the old players that are the ones butchering it and struggling to come to terms with the new way the team is trying to play.

It's more likely, as you imply, a multitude of factors at play, which @binman has always stressed.

2 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Fair enough, you're probably right and know more than i do.

I don’t know all the answers mate, but the difference between the Top Clubs and the rest is mostly psychological.

In 2021 Darren Burgess had the MFC Super fit. and you could see the players genuinely believed they were the best. We so often smashed teams in the 4th Quarter.

That is all but gone now, although we did beat the Premier Team up there and took the Filth right to the line, but they cannot sustain it weekly, which you have to do to win Cups

2 hours ago, chookrat said:

So if we really click in the last 6-8 rounds including winning our last 3 rounds in dominant displays you would advocate sacking the coach in the basis that we missed finals?

I'm disappointed with our inconsistency this year, especially how poorly we have performed against middling sides, but want to see us back in contention next year.

Mr Chook I was tempted to give the laughing emoji but that would be impolite and I do get the gust of your sentiments.

But us winning those , or any games, let alone dominating has to now be considered something from the fiction aisle.

We're now forgetting to show up again then lurch from calamity to mediocrity all the whiles stealing defeat from victory or rolling over to have our tummies tickled.... well... something tickled.

I suggested months ago a qualifier to our angst might be the manner we play/finish the season. I'm not seeing anything much to get excited about. We ought to be still improving if only barely perceptibly, but it's just Melbourne of old with a different sauce.

I get what you're saying...I'm just not convinced that will be what plays out.

But we'll see

40 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Which is why they're giving him a chance to adapt the game plan/style with what appears to be a fairly obvious timeframe/KPI's.

I don't like it necessarily but they'll give him the rest of this season and next to really implement the changes, which has been pretty obviously indicated. Its been noted by many that swinging larger gameplans changes especially dramatically offense wise isn't something you can suddently fix or get right in a single off season (yes yes should have happened earlier) so we've been commended by decent media heads for adapting/learning the new faster gameplan on the fly which is working in patches.

Seems like the playing group still trusts and respects him so they're not going to blow it up for the sake of it just yet.

Whether we like it or not he's not going anywhere anytime soon. But fine with people venting about it as the ol tradition when its not going great.

I still feel like our fitness is the concern with us dropping off in games more then we used to with energy/effort. That was always our staple over the last four or so years.

I am afraid a steep drop of memberships is coming then.

I personally won't stop my support to the club, but based on what I can see here and social media ... many will.

Club is a shambles essentially across the board. We're a world away from where we were. Doubt the board, led as it is by a club legend with no governing experience, has any real idea of what to do next with Goodwin. Or what to do when it comes to hiring the next man up if they do sack him.

On Goody himself, we are set for a second consecutive bottom six finish. Just about every young player we have looks like absolute [censored] despite having shown plenty in the past at either AFL (JVR, Windsor) or VFL (Tholstrup, Jefferson) level. Our senior players aren't lifting. He is absolutely tanking his reputation.