33 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Where did i ever say Clarkson should be sacked? Hawthorn won the 2013 Flag with Franklin and then won the next 2 without him. We win a Flag and implode

Adversity doesn’t bother the Top Sides, (mostly) they just work harder

Losing 2 straight sets final series on the MCG is enough to change Coaches in my opinion, I believe we missed a serious moment there, but it’s in the past.

I also wonder why it takes 2 years to teach a list to play “Run and Carry” Football….

NO, that's my point! Are you seriously arguing two straight set exits is worse than the even rarer embarassment of missing the finals after the flag in '08 plus a 'comfortable' elimination final loss the year after? That's what happened to Clarkson. Thank God, Kennet and co didn't let a subsequent threepeat coach go.

And how about Beveridge? After his flag his Dogs came 10th and 13th. He's still coach and now some (not stupidly) would happily have him coach us. As someone said above maybe people have overreacted to the straight set losses.

(As for comparing the Hawks and Dees one did win three flags in a row, had luck in the prelim where Port kicked like they were in red and blue jumpers and arguably got Sydney and WC on bad days while the other had things like their Norm Smith medallist collide with Buddy plus lost Brayshaw for as good as the whole '23 finals.

BTW do you know that Hawthorn's 2015 GF team in hindsight had 12 All Australians plus future Norm Smith winner Isaac Smith compared to 5 All Australians currently in our last final?)

6 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

NO, that's my point! Are you seriously arguing two straight set exits is worse than the even rarer embarassment of missing the finals after the flag in '08 plus a 'comfortable' elimination final loss the year after? That's what happened to Clarkson. Thank God, Kennet and co didn't let a subsequent threepeat coach go.

And how about Beveridge? After his flag his Dogs came 10th and 13th. He's still coach and now some (not stupidly) would happily have him coach us. As someone said above maybe people have overreacted to the straight set losses.

(As for comparing the Hawks and Dees one did win three flags in a row, had luck in the prelim where Port kicked like they were in red and blue jumpers and arguably got Sydney and WC on bad days while the other had things like their Norm Smith medallist collide with Buddy plus lost Brayshaw for as good as the whole '23 finals.

BTW do you know that Hawthorn's 2015 GF team in hindsight had 12 All Australians plus future Norm Smith winner Isaac Smith compared to 5 All Australians currently in our last final?)

I am talking about Hawthorn winning a 3peat after Franklin left the Club.

And yes i think losing 4 finals in 2 years on our home Ground is a worse scenario than what Hawthorn did after 08

Regardless of the two wins, he needs to go.

The club expected a high finals finish to the home and away season. As soon as finals are not mathematically possible he should be removed for a fresh coach for the pre season.

10 minutes ago, sydneydee said:

Regardless of the two wins, he needs to go.

The club expected a high finals finish to the home and away season. As soon as finals are not mathematically possible he should be removed for a fresh coach for the pre season.

Whilst some would suggest I'm alarmist and biased I will happily put it in pixels that there's a snow storm's chance in hell we'll make the finals.

I reckon we'll pretty much end up right where we are which is pretty much where we said goodbye to 24. Miracles can happen. Just somewhat unlikely.

The upcoming run won't help anyone's cause ( other than dare I say Essendon)

Personally I would have liked to have seen our club show better understanding and perspective as well as being a bit more brutally pragmatic and let go of Goodwin eos 23. The writing was on the wall. It's still there..

This is nothing about any personal agenda or imagined animosities. It is simply about getting the best results for the club.

2 finals exits in quick fashion... followed by two " nothing-ish " finishes in subsequent seasons ( im including this year's ) hardly bodes well for another tilt anytime soon. It paints more of a picture of frittering away talent and opportunities.

Some it would seem would carry on in this direction ad infinitum.

At some point you have to say this isn't working and something needs to change.

An unfortunate reality is we have a President who exhibits an air of 'caretakership' and a gaping hole where a CEO ought to be. Despite my desire for things to be otherwise I can see nothing happening until the back office sorts itself out. In the meantime the Good Ship Goodwin sails on rediscovering what a 3 Hour Cruise is all about.

I hope we click... hope we win, hope to play finals, hope to snag another Flag

Hope can be a dangerous thing, once uttered an inmate.

Reality suggests a long cold winter.

Edited April 29Apr 29 by beelzebub

33 minutes ago, sydneydee said:

Regardless of the two wins, he needs to go.

The club expected a high finals finish to the home and away season. As soon as finals are not mathematically possible he should be removed for a fresh coach for the pre season.

That's pretty fair to be honest.

3 hours ago, Go Ds said:

NO, that's my point! Are you seriously arguing two straight set exits is worse than the even rarer embarassment of missing the finals after the flag in '08 plus a 'comfortable' elimination final loss the year after? That's what happened to Clarkson. Thank God, Kennet and co didn't let a subsequent threepeat coach go.

And how about Beveridge? After his flag his Dogs came 10th and 13th. He's still coach and now some (not stupidly) would happily have him coach us. As someone said above maybe people have overreacted to the straight set losses.

(As for comparing the Hawks and Dees one did win three flags in a row, had luck in the prelim where Port kicked like they were in red and blue jumpers and arguably got Sydney and WC on bad days while the other had things like their Norm Smith medallist collide with Buddy plus lost Brayshaw for as good as the whole '23 finals.

BTW do you know that Hawthorn's 2015 GF team in hindsight had 12 All Australians plus future Norm Smith winner Isaac Smith compared to 5 All Australians currently in our last final?)

If Hawthorn had 12 AA’s after 2015, that is excellent recruitment and Development, which we should be aspiring towards. Not many people thought we would crash and burn after ’21, but that is the reality

After ‘23 it was time for a new voice with fresh Assistant’s, but no Pert had write up a new Contract.

The situation with Oliver was a lot worse than what was reported in the Media, and it has caused a lot of angst. It is now improving, but there are still scars to be sorted

2 hours ago, sydneydee said:

Regardless of the two wins, he needs to go.

The club expected a high finals finish to the home and away season. As soon as finals are not mathematically possible he should be removed for a fresh coach for the pre season.

The next 2 weeks should give a pretty solid indication of what the future holds

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If Hawthorn had 12 AA’s after 2015, that is excellent recruitment and Development, which we should be aspiring towards. Not many people thought we would crash and burn after ’21, but that is the reality

After ‘23 it was time for a new voice with fresh Assistant’s, but no Pert had write up a new Contract.

The situation with Oliver was a lot worse than what was reported in the Media, and it has caused a lot of angst. It is now improving, but there are still scars to be sorted

NO, we crashed and burned after 2023 and there's still a slight chance it's been more a bingle and overheated radiator. Yes, Hawthorn had some great recruiting. Admittedly Fremantle made one of the worst trade mistakes ever trading pick #1 for Croad and Hawthorn benefited from no team drafting Mitchell the year before and still in the 'Croad' draft having every team let Hawthorn pick him at 36. Admittedly these picks have nothing to do with Clarkson who wasn't coach yet. Similarly we can't really go at Goodwin for draft picks before 2016 - players now round their prime at 26 to maybe 29 as well as some older campaigners. You're still missing the point that Goodwin had a very good team while Clarkson had a champion team so arguably this is more why other teams overtook us rather than coaching mistakes.

And if you really think it's better to miss finals altogether or only lose elimination finals why would any team bother finishing higher than 7th? It makes no sense. Yes, straight set exits are painful but nearly every year making the top 4 on the ladder is like getting a golden ticket.

9 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

NO, we crashed and burned after 2023 and there's still a slight chance it's been more a bingle and overheated radiator. Yes, Hawthorn had some great recruiting. Admittedly Fremantle made one of the worst trade mistakes ever trading pick #1 for Croad and Hawthorn benefited from no team drafting Mitchell the year before and still in the 'Croad' draft having every team let Hawthorn pick him at 36. Admittedly these picks have nothing to do with Clarkson who wasn't coach yet. Similarly we can't really go at Goodwin for draft picks before 2016 - players now round their prime at 26 to maybe 29 as well as some older campaigners. You're still missing the point that Goodwin had a very good team while Clarkson had a champion team so arguably this is more why other teams overtook us rather than coaching mistakes.

And if you really think it's better to miss finals altogether or only lose elimination finals why would any team bother finishing higher than 7th? It makes no sense. Yes, straight set exits are painful but nearly every year making the top 4 on the ladder is like getting a golden ticket.

Sure it’s a Golden Ticket, but we blew it Twice on our home Deck in consecutive years. That’s very bad, however you Dress it up. We choked….(Crash & Burn) Finish 6th….

No one expected Hawthorn to win the Flag in ‘08, least of all themselves, in reality Jeeelong Choked it. So it took the Hawks a few years to reload and get a 3peat

With the list we had accumulated in ‘21 we should have achieved a lot more, but our trading of Senior Players has been horrendous which is something Goodwin is partially involved in

Losing Burgess was a huge setback i admit, but i still think a fresh voice would have been beneficial after the ‘23 Season, sadly we will never know

The next 2 games are very interesting in terms of where we really are this year. Win them both with solid performances and Goodwin may claw his way back…

Edited April 29Apr 29 by Sir Why You Little

On 27/04/2025 at 18:33, Roost it far said:

His contract guarantees him to the middle of next season, it’s really that simple.

It’s not that simple if we play like [censored] and lose a lot more than win Roost. Pressure will mount again.

This is such a depressing thread. I'm not Pollyanna; I too saw the defects during the North game. But I also know after many decades that even what happens in July is not necessarily guaranteeing success or failure come September!

I don't believe pound for pound we match the teams that have managed three flags in five years or less this century. Off the top of my head I'd say Brisbane had Black, Voss, Akermanis win Brownlows and maybe Jonathon Brown win the Coleman. Then for Geelong Bartel and Hawkins won those awards. Then Hawthorn had Mitchell and Roughead. Lastly Richmond had Dusty and Riewoldt. What have we had? I'm not going to go through All Australian squads but as I've said even after Buddy left Hawthorn's last GF team had 6 to 7 more All Australians than our last grand final and last final had. I can't hate on our players while it's impressive to win bronze at the Commonwealth Games or get into Mensa it's not the same as doing what Thorpey or Stephen Hawking did.

As for Goodwin two things: are we still in the premiership window? Does Goody still have the support of the players? Not many coaches win a flag and they should be valued like rare diamonds. It's already been said that it will cost us a s***load to sack him at least for many months. But who's to know whether our next coach turns out to be good - premiership-winning-level good - and/or be able to recapture the magic they had winning a flag with another team. If we muck this up we could watch our team languish a lot longer down the bottom of the ladder .... and this will be even more tragic if we're still in the premiership window or come, say, next year we manage to draft a superstar like Cripps or Fyfe who haven't been enough to get a flag.

Anyway by now the only people on this thread are the poor sods who read everything or the people who make Murphy look like an optimist. 🙄

41 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sure it’s a Golden Ticket, but we blew it Twice on our home Deck in consecutive years. That’s very bad, however you Dress it up. We choked….(Crash & Burn) Finish 6th….

No one expected Hawthorn to win the Flag in ‘08, least of all themselves, in reality Jeeelong Choked it. So it took the Hawks a few years to reload and get a 3peat

With the list we had accumulated in ‘21 we should have achieved a lot more, but our trading of Senior Players has been horrendous which is something Goodwin is partially involved in

Losing Burgess was a huge setback i admit, but i still think a fresh voice would have been beneficial after the ‘23 Season, sadly we will never know

The next 2 games are very interesting in terms of where we really are this year. Win them both with solid performances and Goodwin may claw his way back…

__________________

, why do you keep harping on home deck? Every double-chance team plays in their home state and apart from Geelong and a couple of Marvel-based teams EVERY team gets 2 games on their home deck. And no matter how you dress it up it's better to win 15 plus h&a games rather than 12 or less. Unfortunately/fortunately it's harder to guarantee a win in one or two games - luck and form fluctuates and sometimes it just so happens the better team loses. There are so many chances for a team to right itself and manage to finish where they deserve to be the end of the season despite a few off games and bad luck. This is quite different to one or two final where a few unlucky bounces or a concussion or a couple of flukey opposition goals can see the underdog win.

As for unexpected if you mean at the start of the year so were Melbourne. Anyway is a premiership hangover not a hangover if the team weren't favourites on GF day? I'm sure Hawthorn went into that game believing they could win. I doubt they would have won anyway. More importantly Hawthorn went into the next season as the hunted now and no one in their camp or elsewhere was thinking they weren't actually the premiers, with the accompanying expectations.

Umm, why do you keep harping on about home deck? Every double-chance team plays in their home state and apart from Geelong and a couple of Marvel-based teams EVERY team gets 2 games on their home deck. And no matter how you dress it up it's better to win 15 plus h&a games rather than 12 or less. Unfortunately/fortunately it's harder to guarantee a win in one or two games - luck and form fluctuates and sometimes it just so happens the better team loses. There are so many chances for a team to right itself and manage to finish where they deserve to be the end of the season despite a few off games and bad luck. This is quite different to one or two final where a few unlucky bounces or a concussion or a couple of flukey opposition goals can see the underdog win.

Anyway we're going round in circles .its a good effort to finish the season with the double chance. Sometimes **** happens and teams lose unloseable finals. Hawthorn were probably a much better team than our premiership one. And Goodwin was still the right coach after 2023. (If the rest of the season is unjustifiably bad or there are deafening rumours that Goodwin had lost the players then I too will join the Time To Go camp.)

Edited April 29Apr 29 by Go Ds
The new DL format is awful!

On 02/08/2024 at 22:08, adonski said:

Goodwin needs to be moved into the Chief Vibe Coordinator role and replaced with an actual match day coach

I wanted him gone 2 years ago, nothings changed still want him OUT OUT OUT

AFL club reportedly eyeing forme...

AFL club reportedly eyeing former Sydney coach amid "high...

“There is a race that is beginning.”

Take it with a grain of salt as it is coming from Sam Manure.

44 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Umm, why do you keep harping on about home deck? Every double-chance team plays in their home state and apart from Geelong and a couple of Marvel-based teams EVERY team gets 2 games on their home deck. And no matter how you dress it up it's better to win 15 plus h&a games rather than 12 or less. Unfortunately/fortunately it's harder to guarantee a win in one or two games - luck and form fluctuates and sometimes it just so happens the better team loses. There are so many chances for a team to right itself and manage to finish where they deserve to be the end of the season despite a few off games and bad luck. This is quite different to one or two final where a few unlucky bounces or a concussion or a couple of flukey opposition goals can see the underdog win.

Anyway we're going round in circles .its a good effort to finish the season with the double chance. Sometimes **** happens and teams lose unloseable finals. Hawthorn were probably a much better team than our premiership one. And Goodwin was still the right coach after 2023. (If the rest of the season is unjustifiably bad or there are deafening rumours that Goodwin had lost the players then I too will join the Time To Go camp.)

Sorry i honestly don’t understand the Top Paragraph.

We made Top 4 2 years in a row and blew it on the MCG, at that point in time Simon should have been thanked with a dignified send off and replaced by another voice.

Sadly Roffey and Pert thought differently and we are where we are…

Goodwin should never have been handed the contract extension at 1M per at the time by Roffey & Pert. IMO it has hurt the club both on field & financially. Even if he were sacked & paid out where is the club going to find that sort of coin ?

Whether Goody thinks he has papered over the cracks with 2 wins remains to be seen. The next 2 weeks will tell the tale I believe. Both games are winnable but if we slip back to the atrocious level of play the team shows in the first 5 weeks then game over imo.

Our ex members have voted with their feet & not renewed. We are just on 10,000 members down on the same time last year. That is a million dollar hit to our bottom line right there & that is money that our club can ill afford to lose. And I don’t blame anyone not parting with their hard earned and not wanting to watch the dismal stuff the team dished up for 5 weeks.

The scintillating start to our first half against Freo has given me hope that it can be turned around with the proviso that we start winning fourth quarters . We haven’t won a single one this season which does shine a spotlight on team fitness. Remember how we used to run over teams in last quarters when Burgess was in charge ?

1 hour ago, TRACATTACK said:

Remember how we used to run over teams in last quarters when Burgess was in charge ?

People should let this drop. Seriously. Dave Misson knew what he was doing (one of the reasons Paul Roos kept him on), as does Griffith, who was hand-picked and trained up by Burgess to succeed him.

2 minutes ago, bing181 said:

People should let this drop. Seriously. Dave Misson knew what he was doing (one of the reasons Paul Roos kept him on), as does Griffith, who was hand-picked and trained up by Burgess to succeed him.

"Adelaide couldn’t maintain the rage for the full four quarters as Geelong proved they are a contender again in 2025."

Adelaide Advertiser, 10 April

On 27/04/2025 at 21:42, KozzyCan said:

Who? The club? They publicly set finals as the minimum expectation this year.

Combine that with what was seen as a relatively easy draw.

After the unacceptable 0-5 start, I reckon we need to go at least 10-8 for Goodwin to keep his job next year.

If you were told pre season that Melbourne would win less games than in 2024, which is what will happen even if we have a solid 10-8 finish, you'd say there's no way he'd keep his job for 2026.

When it's all said and done, I think the 0-5 start will catch up to him when a decision is to be made at the end of the season.

Edited April 30Apr 30 by Bring-Back-Powell

Just now, bing181 said:

"Especially with the crew that he has"

If we had anything like a top 4 list we'd be in the top 4. Not more complicated than that.

(caveat also being that the full list is more or less fully available, which is not our case either)

I think that's an oversimplification. Our list is alright. Certainly better than bottom 4 where we are currently placed.

We've had a few injuries but nothing extreme. Others have certainly had it worse. Bulldogs have had far worse injuries than us and have handled themselves pretty well.

Folks need to get over Goodwin's contract timing and the $.

He signed a contract in 2021 and forfeited some $ to keep the coaching and football staff and stay within the vastly reduced covid soft cap.

It was renewed in 2023 and maybe there was some 'catch up' $ he forfeited and certainly reward for the Premiership in 2021 and top 2 in 2022..

Regardless of what happens in the future he has earnt the contract extensions and the $.

On 28/04/2025 at 09:10, Deestar9 said:

But we’re not a top team ..yet. We are in the process of blending our new talent with our “old” talent. Of course you don’t play the same way every week as you don’t play the same oppo every week & you may not have the same players every week. You win differently. Instead of wasting negative energy on Goodwin just try & enjoy the evolution of the team and the players. It’s actually fun

And here lies the argument.

We’re not a top team, yet many on here think another coach would have us playing as a top team. Also I would argue that Collingwood and the Dogs play endeavour to play the same way every week regardless of personal.

We love an excuse at Melbourne.

Smart from the club financially to keep him on for the duration of his contract.

Can't afford his pay out clause amount, let alone the soft cap breach "luxury tax" it would cost us as well.