Cam Bruce

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

I cannot believe that in my last post people were replying that Bruce is a possible trade- he is BY FAR, our most damaging midfielder. Green would be the only one we could trade.hes too soft and his decision making is poor- Byron needs time, he played some great football last year and to trade him would be stupid. As for Miller, he tries and presents- he just cant kick. persist with him

[Jaded No More 68,904]

You just made two mistakes

1) Saying that Bruce is our most damaging midfielder

2) Calling Green soft

Both are just preconceived ideas that are mentioned on this board far too often.

Bruce is a receiver 95% of the time, therefore he needs someone else to win the ball for him. That means that our most damaging midfielder is someone like McLean who goes in and gets the ball to Bruce in the first place. Also, Bruce will never be truly damaging until he learns to hit targets and take the right options. He panics under pressure.

And Green is NOT soft. His great tackle yesterday in the last which got us on a roll is an example of this. You can't call Green soft and then bring up Bruce. Green puts his body on the line far more often than Bruce (and neither are soft).

Nobody is advocating that we trade Bruce for a Kent Kingsley or another Ben Holland. But if someone like Judd or Pavlich were up for grabs at the end of the year, we would be foolish not to go after them, and to get quality, you must trade quality. Bruce doesn't reach the heights of Judd or Pavlich and never will, therefore trading him for one of these players will be beneficial to the side, which is why you trade to begin with.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Thank the Lord, Jaded, you just articulated everything I was trying to say on the other thread about Bruce.

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

mate- u are kidding- green is the SOFTEST GOING AROUND!!!..poor defensive work and manning yesterday..never seen him lay a proper tackle in my life. on the other hand..check cameron Bruce's tackle count this year. I'm sure you'll get a surprise

[Jaded No More 68,904]

mate- u are kidding- green is the SOFTEST GOING AROUND!!!..poor defensive work and manning yesterday..never seen him lay a proper tackle in my life. on the other hand..check cameron Bruce's tackle count this year. I'm sure you'll get a surprise

Ok, he never lays a proper tackle, except for yesterday

And being a poor defender and unaccountable, is not a sign that you are soft. Brown is both, is he soft?

For what it's worth, Green should never have played on Grant to begin with. He is not a defender, at best he could play as a third man up.

I also specifically said that neither Green nor Bruce are soft, so your argument about his tackle count is irrelevant.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

I cannot believe that in my last post people were replying that Bruce is a possible trade- he is BY FAR, our most damaging midfielder. Green would be the only one we could trade.hes too soft and his decision making is poor- Byron needs time, he played some great football last year and to trade him would be stupid. As for Miller, he tries and presents- he just cant kick. persist with him

You had me with Bruce and Byron but you lost me with ur rubbish about Green. Soft I do not think so, he is a great kick, great full forward when we need him, great midfielder and I could go on. I have been a Melb supporter my whole life and if we trade Bruce or Green I would consider giving up footy altogether

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

And Bruce is our most damaging midfielder- two perfect examples. Against the bulldogs this year- last quater wwhen daniher finally took bruce off Johnson, put him on the ball- he got 12 possessions and almost won us the game. yesterday, he got 12 in the last quater and was very damaging. I'll be the first to admit Brock and Junior go in harder than bruce, But Bruce is alot more tougher than Green.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

And Bruce is our most damaging midfielder- two perfect examples. Against the bulldogs this year- last quater wwhen daniher finally took bruce off Johnson, put him on the ball- he got 12 possessions and almost won us the game. yesterday, he got 12 in the last quater and was very damaging. I'll be the first to admit Brock and Junior go in harder than bruce, But Bruce is alot more tougher than Green.

They play different roles you cannot compare them and they both have different styles. You can see from a mile away that Green comes from a soccer background but what he brings to the table isnt anything less than Bruce. Bruce leads the team week in week out with little respect I feel and they are both valuable players to our team.

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

alright. All points taken, all as valid as each other. yet out of the two, i reckon trading Green would benefit us rather than bruce.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

alright. All points taken, all as valid as each other. yet out of the two, i reckon trading Green would benefit us rather than bruce.

Green would not benefit cos he can be played anywhere. If forced into trade we need to get rid of players that are not flexible enough to change positions on the ground. Perhaps someone like Wheatley who is a bit one dimensional even though is effective when he plays he is rarely able to be moved from his one position.

Ps. Dunno if I like your signature it looks similar to mine but has the wrong name attached

[Red and Blue Flame 186]

Hahaha. as much as i love rowdy- 10 years is a long time..i just want a change. has been a great embassador for the MFC

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

Hahaha. as much as i love rowdy- 10 years is a long time..i just want a change. has been a great embassador for the MFC

Couldnt disagree with you more

[Deano74 156]

I rate Bruce Highly, Not many players in our team, can play in the middle, be put foward to Kick Goals or swung into defence to quell the opposition, He had 35 posi's yesterday and kicked a couple of goals, not much more he can do.

Yes he might not be the in and under type, but the likes of Brock have to give it to someone, and Bruce works hard running all day trying to set up play.

I dont think you can compare anyone to Judd, he stands alone.

But compare Bruce to others in the comp and he stands up well.

I wouldnt swap him.

[grazman 7,432]

I rate Bruce Highly, Not many players in our team, can play in the middle, be put foward to Kick Goals or swung into defence to quell the opposition, He had 35 posi's yesterday and kicked a couple of goals, not much more he can do.

Yes he might not be the in and under type, but the likes of Brock have to give it to someone, and Bruce works hard running all day trying to set up play.

I dont think you can compare anyone to Judd, he stands alone.

But compare Bruce to others in the comp and he stands up well.

I wouldnt swap him.

I'd swap him for Judd, if they wouldn't take anyone else.... some of the stuff written about Bruce this year however, is just rubbish. He has had more contested possession than any other Demon this year and is ranked 20th in the league. He has rated consistently in our top three for CPs, Tackles and 1%s for the last three years and people keep slamming him for being a reciever. When we looked shot for all money the bloke collects 12 possessions in the last quarter alone and kicks a goal, yet people question his leadership. He had three errors yesterday, that's one less than TJ and five less than Jones.

Very few players find their way through traffic like Cameron Bruce... he is up there with Brock, TJ and Rivers for footy smarts. Yes his kicking is a little erratic at times, particularly at goal, but he's a much better kick than Scott West for example. I love the bloke and wish people would just get off his case, he is much better than a lot give him credit for.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

I'd swap him for Judd, if they wouldn't take anyone else.... some of the stuff written about Bruce this year however, is just rubbish. He has had more contested possession than any other Demon this year and is ranked 20th in the league. He has rated consistently in our top three for CPs, Tackles and 1%s for the last three years and people keep slamming him for being a reciever. When we looked shot for all money the bloke collects 12 possessions in the last quarter alone and kicks a goal, yet people question his leadership. He had three errors yesterday, that's one less than TJ and five less than Jones.

Very few players find their way through traffic like Cameron Bruce... he is up there with Brock, TJ and Rivers for footy smarts. Yes his kicking is a little erratic at times, particularly at goal, but he's a much better kick than Scott West for example. I love the bloke and wish people would just get off his case, he is much better than a lot give him credit for.

I agree with everything u said about Brucey but then I dont understand why after all of that u would trade him for Judd? Clearly Bruce will be the next captain (for all ur Brock lovers he is still too young and hasnt played enough footy so dont start)

[grazman 7,432]

I agree with everything u said about Brucey but then I dont understand why after all of that u would trade him for Judd? Clearly Bruce will be the next captain (for all ur Brock lovers he is still too young and hasnt played enough footy so dont start)

I love Bruce, I wouldn't trade him for too many players, but Judd yes who is BTW easily the league's CP and clearance elite (though he's helped by his team mates). I don't know how you could quantify it, Judd will probably never leave, but if he came to Melbourne, he'd be worth more in terms of members, and sponsorship. He's also a big game performer, and that's the one area that Cam is still yet to prove himself. So in summary, I'd trade him for the best in the business, but very little else.

[classy dees 42]

...

Fantastic post graz, agreed with everything

OTDB ... i love how you are positive about everyone from the bootstudder to the coach, but you need to see the big picture. Cam is a very good player but he isn't the next captain. leadership group maybe, but brock should be the next captain next year. cam can stay in the leadership group because he will run all day and plays for the jumper but he isn't a leader in the mould of brock, and it is that leadership that we so desperately need. (fwiw as recently as this years pre-season i was in the bruce for next captain camp, but brock is the man)

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

OTDB ... i love how you are positive about everyone from the bootstudder to the coach, but you need to see the big picture. Cam is a very good player but he isn't the next captain. leadership group maybe, but brock should be the next captain next year. cam can stay in the leadership group because he will run all day and plays for the jumper but he isn't a leader in the mould of brock, and it is that leadership that we so desperately need. (fwiw as recently as this years pre-season i was in the bruce for next captain camp, but brock is the man)

Trust me I love Brock as much as the next person but I do not think he will be captain because he hasnt played enough footy that hasnt been interrupted by injury. If Neitz was to step down Bruce would the next captain then Brock after him I think. But I do believe Brock will be captain I just dont think for the next two years until he gets a steady season under his belt.

[bjgc 0]

The player I would trade is Johnstone he has no flexibility is lazy, has no defensive ability, turns the ball over as much as anyone, but saying that he is a lot better player than Green. At least when Johnstone is playing well he can hurt the opposition unlike Green who only hurts the opposition when he is a leading forward pocket not as a midfielder. The trade I would do is Johnstone, our first 3 draft picks and C.Johnson for Judd.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

The player I would trade is Johnstone he has no flexibility is lazy, has no defensive ability, turns the ball over as much as anyone, but saying that he is a lot better player than Green. At least when Johnstone is playing well he can hurt the opposition unlike Green who only hurts the opposition when he is a leading forward pocket not as a midfielder. The trade I would do is Johnstone, our first 3 draft picks and C.Johnson for Judd.

Johnstone reads the ball better than a lot of other players in the competition we could and never would trade him. He made a bit of an error yesterday but that is no reason to string him up. Judd isnt going anywhere and neither is Green, Bruce or Johnno.

[maximum bob 462]

The player I would trade is Johnstone he has no flexibility is lazy, has no defensive ability, turns the ball over as much as anyone, but saying that he is a lot better player than Green. At least when Johnstone is playing well he can hurt the opposition unlike Green who only hurts the opposition when he is a leading forward pocket not as a midfielder. The trade I would do is Johnstone, our first 3 draft picks and C.Johnson for Judd.

I'll have some of what you're on thanks, if only to make sense of your post.

Forget getting Judd and join the real world. It's a TEAM sport, or didn't you notice the Dorks clean up the Eagles on the weekend, with Judd in the side. One player does not make a spring. Trapper, Green and Bruce are in our best starting 22 for the next few years. Get used to it.

Obviously ND is trying to fill holes by playing/rotating Green out of position; he doesn't have a lot of choices right at the moment.

Of course Green'd be more value leading from the HFF but we're shifting the proverbial deckchairs on the Titanic at the moment.

In a full and balanced team Green would be up forward or on a wing with a licence to run forward at will. Any talk of trading any of these three is an hysterical and juvenile over-reaction.

[45HG 1,539]

The player I would trade is Johnstone he has no flexibility is lazy, has no defensive ability, turns the ball over as much as anyone, but saying that he is a lot better player than Green. At least when Johnstone is playing well he can hurt the opposition unlike Green who only hurts the opposition when he is a leading forward pocket not as a midfielder. The trade I would do is Johnstone, our first 3 draft picks and C.Johnson for Judd.

johnstone lazy?? this thread is full of preconceived notions.

i used to think green is soft, but this year on many occasions he has proved that he is not, often trying his best outside his weight division, literally, and his tackle proves that.

johnstone may have been lazy in the past, but i bet you couldnt run in two days the amount he runs in 2 hours. in the last 2 weeks alone i reckon he would've covered as much territory as any player in the comp.

and finally, why are so many people simply turning to stats? does no body understand their irrelevance for the most part. bruce's tackles count would be high, because he plays in the middle! how many players has he chased down? and how many stick? he waltzes around the field accepting the ball, which he subsequently butches too often for a man with the skills we know he has, or had.

[bjgc 0]

I'll have some of what you're on thanks, if only to make sense of your post.

Forget getting Judd and join the real world. It's a TEAM sport, or didn't you notice the Dorks clean up the Eagles on the weekend, with Judd in the side. One player does not make a spring. Trapper, Green and Bruce are in our best starting 22 for the next few years. Get used to it.

All of Victoria don't even attempt to lure Judd over cause bob or is that [censored] says so. Where is your proof that Judd is definately staying he's uncontracted after this season so he could be going anywhere even if it is unlikely. You have to remember West Coast have a team of stars we are near the bottom, Judd will be in for a massive pay rise West Coast do not have a never ending salary cap and you think that every Victoria club won't be throwing money at him of course they will. If we had the chance to nab the best footballer in the league for Johnstone and a couple of early draft picks I would do it in a heart beat like I'm sure most people would. The way Johnstone has played this year he will definately be up for trade, wether there is anyone suitable for trade is another thing all together. Bruce won't be up for trade. As for Green anyone wanting trade anyone decent for him would be crazy he is a dime a dozen player.

[leucopogon 1,519]

Okay, the weight of evidence being put forth about Cam Bruce's ability is swaying me back yes he's good but to say he's an elite is totally an overstatement. The fact that he's probably in our top 2 or 3 players at the club is somewhat of an indictment on our list I reckon.

Re: Brad Green, I rate him as one of our best footballers, if only they'd play him in the correct position each week, a lead up forward pocket, he'd bag 40-50 goals a season no worries. ND has tried to change his whole game around and I think its been to the detriment of him as a player. Reminds me of the old adage, jack of all trades master of none.

What we are really glaringly lacking at the moment on our list is:

a) skillful outside midfielders that can hit targets going into forward 50 (TJ's probably the only one who does it on a somewhat regualr basis, Yze used to be this to a tee but now he's inside 50 and is becoming more and more of a liability, Bruce can do it but his disposal is erratic, our new brigade are still learning their craft but none of Brock, Moloney, Jones or Bartram seem super accurate or confident with their passing to leading forwards hopefully they will improve). We've concentrated our drafting in recent years on in-and-under type players and now we've got plenty of those, but the pacy skillful player stocks are drying up at the club now, this should be a priority at the trading table.

B) a giant tap ruckman that has endurance and round the ground impact - White is passed his best and has been crocked by the new centre bounce rules. He doesn't do enough around the ground. We need to get a new ruckman urgently to step in and take more of the burden off White

c) a proper full back - Maybe Frawley will be the man, but he seems a little undersized, similar to what we already have in Carrol, Bizzel, Ferguson and Rivers etc. At the moment Holland is able to play on gorilla forwards like Gehrig and Richo but he won't be around much longer, so its crucial that we get someone that can take the big FF's otherwise we'll likely concede big scores every time we have a monster playing against us. Perhaps Miller needs to be groomed as this player, God knows he hasn't been a very effective CHF.

d) a replacement for Neitz - Robbo will do the job in the short term but he is also nearing his twilight years and is a little small to take on big defenders. Miller in my eyes isn't the answer his decision making and kicking is shite. I always thought Brad Green would make a good FF with his deadly left boot and good marking on the lead, but he is also a bit small to be a true FF. Newton maybe but will we ever get to see?

[Jarka 767]

Firstly, good post Jaded, voice of reason as per normal.

Secondly, in an ideal world I wouldn't trade Bruce, but unfortunately it's not ideal. To get good players via a trade you have to be prepared to give up good picks or players or a combination of the both. That means you would have to give up quality to get quality, I wouldn't want to trade one of our quality kids so one of our senior players would have to be sacrificed and Bruce would fall into that category. Also his ability I think is overrated by the majority of the football world which would work more in our favour.

Having said all that the deal would have to be advantageous to us to go ahead.