29 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I had a listen to Daniel Hoyne on Sportsday. He was asked what positive things he could say about Melbourne, and he said it was pretty difficult to.

To summarise, he said:

"We're not getting sucked into one game and the loss to Freo. We look at the overall trend across the '24 season.

They have have lost what made them a good footy side of the last 3 years. They were 1, 1, 1 the last 3 years on contested possession. They are now 12th

1,1,2 territory team over the last 3 years, they are now 15th.

They have wanted to be different to their previous final campaign to open up their ball movement and get more of an offensive return. But the reality is they are the 6th worst ball movement team.

So their ball movement return hasn't been there. They've lost their DNA from a contest and territory perspective, and they're not getting anything from their turnover game - Only North and West Coast are scoring less and punishing less on turnover. Lastly, defensively, they're just mid table at defending the turn-over game.

It is the first time Melbourne has been negative on contest and territory for 9 years (!!)"

He also went on to say,

"Credit to them for trying something different, especially early on in the season where you have a bit more time up your sleeves. However,  also from an individual perspective

1) Harrison Petty is the lowest rated player across the competition. 

2) Steven May is having his worst season of his career (from a ratings perspective)

3) Oliver is having his worst season of his career

All the reliance goes to Max and Trac and a little bit of AnB.

He also then added

"It's going to take a lot for this to change for them to get into premiership contention"

Healey asked, "Can they do it in a space of 10 weeks?" and Hoyne's response was "I'd be very surprised if they could make such a big change"

 

sobering.....and hard to argue with.  It actually quite eloquently sums up where we are. Bit harsh on Petty. I would have thought there were worse.

I honestly think its a bit strggle street from here on in....short of some miracle or two. Someone(s) has to find the form of better times...and perhaps someone might step out of the shadows.

Otherwise the party might be over.

KB is bigger than Ben Hur in the context of things. If we see nothing....then the cupboard's bare.

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Is it that he goes missing? Or maybe the surrounding cast of players around him are not providing him with space and matchups that he can exploit?

Maybe a bit of both.

The problem in myview of it, is Fritta is an  "opportunistic" forward... Yes he can and does lead but he's not the #1 KPF as such. When someone is playing that role(kpf1) with even a minor amount of effectivelness it releases Fritta into his own world. And thats fine.. At these times he's very very hard to match up on and contain as he only needs an inch.   When we have a shambles of a Forward setup with NO ONE effectively playing a true #1 kpf  ( someone might be named....but not doing it welll ;) ) then the Oppo can tie up Fritta. This has been happening of late.  He's paid a lot more attention.  I dont put that on him..Thats fairly at the feet of the FD...

3 hours ago, drdrake said:

Issue is simple, we can't hit targets no point having Wayne Carey forward of the ball if you can't kick it to him.  There will be an out number in our forward line teams make sure of that, if we can't kick the ball to our players advantage the outnumber will just eat it up.

We drafted contested bulls, suited the game at the time and won a flag, now the game has moved on and you need to control the footy.  We cover when May and Lever are intercepting a lot of footy but when that doesn't happen we struggle.

Fast ball movement into an open forward line with blocks and leading patterns will absolutely help. Should a team have a plus one or two then where do we place our spare. We haven’t worked that out yet, haven’t for years with our forward line connection. 
 Unfortunately our contested bulls are getting beaten in contested football so there goes our one wood. With a change in the holding the ball rule I would love to see us pressure the source more as opposed to guarding grass and playing a zone relying on an intercept game. When your team is getting pantsed I’d especially love to see us go one on one to see who is the weak link in the chain getting beaten by their opponent and not doing the effort based stuff.

Last week needs to be a line in the sand game. But it was coming. Brisbane at home, the first half against Richmond, Eagles away. The premiership credits are over for me. Stop selecting players that are obviously playing under duress, stop playing players that aren’t performing or have no obvious form line at Casey to warrant a promotion. Stop selecting players on past reputation or deeds at another club or ours. Perform or play at Casey. Would rather see the kids play with a bit of fire in the belly. Let’s see some accountability in selection. 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

True, but Sunday was on a plane of its own. More potential to be a catalyst. 

I was at the WC game and we were seriously bad. I said here after the game that I found it very disturbing the way we played. It was as bad as we could be against a consistently very poor side. ATM we are in Limbo,  neither here or there yet. I still hope we can get back on the right track. 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

True, but Sunday was on a plane of its own. More potential to be a catalyst. 

In a fashion I agree....that Sunday was  a game .....completely unto itself.   The West Coast debacle was bad enough but in a fashion at least we seemed to be there....just played like [censored]. Sunday...ooooohhhh......had a bit of "Picnic at Hanging Rock " about it....i.e...bad juju.  What happened out there was quite odd . We had our own 'dimension' all to ourselves.....shame it wasn't the one the game was played in.

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

In a fashion I agree....that Sunday was  a game .....completely unto itself.   The West Coast debacle was bad enough but in a fashion at least we seemed to be there....just played like [censored]. Sunday...ooooohhhh......had a bit of "Picnic at Hanging Rock " about it....i.e...bad juju.  What happened out there was quite odd . We had our own 'dimension' all to ourselves.....shame it wasn't the one the game was played in.

More reason to be confident it shan’t happen again. 

1 minute ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

More reason to be confident it shan’t happen again. 

Cant share the confidence, but I certainly and fervently  hope !!

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Cant share the confidence, but I certainly and fervently  hope !!

Do you though? 

.

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by greenwaves

10 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Do you though? 

I take umbridge at even the smallest possibility youre slighting my desire to see us win. Desire and expectation are not the same word.

I dare say I've followed this team a lot longer than you.  Not all of us see it the same. Our perspectives can be different. I'm very much a pragmatist and realist. So we may differ. 

But my blood runs two colours.......guess !!

Go Dees

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I take umbridge at even the smallest possibility youre slighting my desire to see us win. Desire and expectation are not the same word.

I dare say I've followed this team a lot longer than you.  Not all of us see it the same. Our perspectives can be different. I'm very much a pragmatist and realist. So we may differ. 

But my blood runs two colours.......guess !!

Go Dees

Uhm, sch!tt brown and pus off-white???? Soz I mean red and blue? 😁

Incidentally, what’s the importance of how long one has supported the Club? Are you more passionate? More knowledgeable? More entitled to an opinion?

5 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Uhm, sch!tt brown and pus off-white???? Soz I mean red and blue? 😁

Incidentally, what’s the importance of how long one has supported the Club? Are you more passionate? More knowledgeable? More entitled to an opinion?

No more entitled.. I don't need to answer or explain anything to your good self or anyone 

Maybe having been following Melbourne longer means I've seen more eras. That also goes to lived perspectives.

Carry on grasshopper

 

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I had a listen to Daniel Hoyne on Sportsday. He was asked what positive things he could say about Melbourne, and he said it was pretty difficult to.

To summarise, he said:

"We're not getting sucked into one game and the loss to Freo. We look at the overall trend across the '24 season.

They have have lost what made them a good footy side of the last 3 years. They were 1, 1, 1 the last 3 years on contested possession. They are now 12th

1,1,2 territory team over the last 3 years, they are now 15th.

They have wanted to be different to their previous final campaign to open up their ball movement and get more of an offensive return. But the reality is they are the 6th worst ball movement team.

So their ball movement return hasn't been there. They've lost their DNA from a contest and territory perspective, and they're not getting anything from their turnover game - Only North and West Coast are scoring less and punishing less on turnover. Lastly, defensively, they're just mid table at defending the turn-over game.

It is the first time Melbourne has been negative on contest and territory for 9 years (!!)"

He also went on to say,

"Credit to them for trying something different, especially early on in the season where you have a bit more time up your sleeves. However,  also from an individual perspective

1) Harrison Petty is the lowest rated player across the competition. 

2) Steven May is having his worst season of his career (from a ratings perspective)

3) Oliver is having his worst season of his career

All the reliance goes to Max and Trac and a little bit of AnB.

He also then added

"It's going to take a lot for this to change for them to get into premiership contention"

Healey asked, "Can they do it in a space of 10 weeks?" and Hoyne's response was "I'd be very surprised if they could make such a big change"

 

Thanks for the above. 

In my view the media pile about straight sets finals set up a narrative late last year that forced the club - incorrectly - to maybe think the past now isn't working lest we  change - despite our obvious strengths.  Still recognising other teams are improving with new talent we don't yet have  - eg Horne Francis, Harley reid, etc.

Evidence?

2022 - a couple of goals short of a prelim - with 10 players injured, incl Max, and Trac(heroically IMO) with a cracked tibia. We were highly competitve despite these issues. I attended the Gabba bllodbath we inflicted on the Lions not 2 weeks earlier then lose at the 'G'. Did noone think how that was possible. ?

2023 - Lost forward line with jake out, JVR out susp., Collingwood game - Brayshaw and poor kicking, then one poor kick /decison by Jack and prelim gone also.

I concur not much was wrong, and acknowledge JVR our key to future but not quite ready.

Tweak but keep going with key aspects of current game, but with a few improvements like lowering the eyes etc.

I expect to see a major reversion to 21-23 style on Monday - despite personnel deficiences

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by Demon17
spelling mistakes

3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

To fluke something implies luck and not just a little bit of luck (as we experienced in 2021 re injuries) but a lot of luck, oftentimes 100% luck. Fact: It is impossible to win a Premiership with just luck alone, ergo, our Flag is NOT a fluke.

And yes you are shouting. You shout to get your point across. It’s as though you’re trying to convince everyone that because you’re yelling you must be right. Problem is, because you do it so often, it’s become impotent and imo comical, and we’ll throw in irritating for good measure. 

I never have and never will give rise to the term Luck! There is no such thing in the world as good luck or bad luck.Destiny decides everything. What is IS and by the way, if you want to talk irritating then I find your consistent so called interactions with hooser, flooser, swapper, snapper, flapper, wozza, ferdozza, et al to be ultra comical, as if you have an intrinsic almost transcendental bond with the group. Over to you!!! Oh and as an aside I played in three Grand Finals in a row for 3 wins, coz if we had won only the first of them, it would have been a fluke, by the majority of the playing group, as I said, over to you!😎

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by picket fence

37 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Uhm, sch!tt brown and pus off-white???? Soz I mean red and blue? 😁

Incidentally, what’s the importance of how long one has supported the Club? Are you more passionate? More knowledgeable? More entitled to an opinion?

In an effort to brighten you up re: histroy of club, etc,  I still am attending games since 1965 and I marvel at the sheer talent I have watched these last few years. Collectively the best I have ever seen.

I'll attend Monday with that mindet - how priviledged are we to watch Max, and Trac and Jack?  Only ever felt this emotion watching Robbie's career.

Don't let the white noise get to you.

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by Demon17
spelling mistakes

Our old game plan was worked out by the opposition 

We don’t have the skills to execute the new game plan

its a pickle for sure. TBH I’m not sure if the brains trust can come up with something different other than revert to our contested and territory game.

will be interesting to see what we do v the pies

5 minutes ago, BDA said:

Our old game plan was worked out by the opposition 

We don’t have the skills to execute the new game plan

its a pickle for sure. TBH I’m not sure if the brains trust can come up with something different other than revert to our contested and territory game.

will be interesting to see what we do v the pies

Would be a different narrative if we had the skill (and some luck) in finishing with the old game plan. Was the poor finishing (ie inaccuracies) because of lack of skills or fatigue or both? Who knows. Interesting times ahead for the MFC. 

24 minutes ago, Dodos Demons said:

Would be a different narrative if we had the skill (and some luck) in finishing with the old game plan. Was the poor finishing (ie inaccuracies) because of lack of skills or fatigue or both? Who knows. Interesting times ahead for the MFC. 

It is quite intriguing that skill has been our downfall for many, many years and yet we doubled down with a new gameplan which is outrageously reliant on skill.

4 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I had a listen to Daniel Hoyne on Sportsday. He was asked what positive things he could say about Melbourne, and he said it was pretty difficult to.

To summarise, he said:

"We're not getting sucked into one game and the loss to Freo. We look at the overall trend across the '24 season.

They have have lost what made them a good footy side of the last 3 years. They were 1, 1, 1 the last 3 years on contested possession. They are now 12th

1,1,2 territory team over the last 3 years, they are now 15th.

They have wanted to be different to their previous final campaign to open up their ball movement and get more of an offensive return. But the reality is they are the 6th worst ball movement team.

So their ball movement return hasn't been there. They've lost their DNA from a contest and territory perspective, and they're not getting anything from their turnover game - Only North and West Coast are scoring less and punishing less on turnover. Lastly, defensively, they're just mid table at defending the turn-over game.

It is the first time Melbourne has been negative on contest and territory for 9 years (!!)"

He also went on to say,

"Credit to them for trying something different, especially early on in the season where you have a bit more time up your sleeves. However,  also from an individual perspective

1) Harrison Petty is the lowest rated player across the competition. 

2) Steven May is having his worst season of his career (from a ratings perspective)

3) Oliver is having his worst season of his career

All the reliance goes to Max and Trac and a little bit of AnB.

He also then added

"It's going to take a lot for this to change for them to get into premiership contention"

Healey asked, "Can they do it in a space of 10 weeks?" and Hoyne's response was "I'd be very surprised if they could make such a big change"

 

Well said. 

I'm now in the boat that there's a huge chance we could miss finals based on this overview. 

You can't overhaul the game plan completely but even with a few tinkering you're still not guaranteed to win games.

This has been brewing for a number of weeks now. 

Welcome to the curve of equilibrium, by design.

Welcome to the sport that neutered the influence of cash to have a 'relatively' equal competition,  rather than purchased success, where over a period of half a decade, any team can win a premiership, in effect.

We rode the crest of the wave with a game style that won a premiership and now, as the sport, the tactics and the opposition has evolved, those warriors (and coaches) that won us a premiership are moving towards the setting sun...

Some may see it that we haven't moved with the times, or haven't drafted/recruited well enough. Or the coaches cant coach, or are outdated. Some may even be genuinely entitled in their expectations of a dynasty has been missed.

I would take the players that we had, and the coach that we had, for the one premiership of supreme joy and 4 years of quality, quality competitive football, game after game after game. Whilst acknowledging that all good things, start a decline, and it's actually no-ones fault. There is no one to blame, but we do like to do so.

Every thing in life is transitory, Everything is impermanent.

"Pursue it vigorously, and hold it lightly."

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by Engorged Onion

This weeks primary message 

STOP OVERHANDBALLING 

1 hour ago, BDA said:

Our old game plan was worked out by the opposition 

We don’t have the skills to execute the new game plan

its a pickle for sure. TBH I’m not sure if the brains trust can come up with something different other than revert to our contested and territory game.

will be interesting to see what we do v the pies

We had Carlton on the ropes in that SF. If Gawn and Pickett had kicked either of their goals we would’ve been in a prelim where anything could have happened. The old game plan won us a flag and 3 consecutive top 4 finishes.

As David King said on 360 tonight, it’s been a complete over correction.

 

5 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

We had Carlton on the ropes in that SF. If Gawn and Pickett had kicked either of their goals we would’ve been in a prelim where anything could have happened. The old game plan won us a flag and 3 consecutive top 4 finishes.

As David King said on 360 tonight, it’s been a complete over correction.

Yep agree, Simon panicked!!

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

I played in three Grand Finals in a row for 3 wins, coz if we had won only the first of them, it would have been a fluke.

So… our Flag WAS a fluke then. That’s what you’re saying, right? It’s one thing to b!ttcch and moan about the subsequent years but to call our premiership a fluke is disgusting.

And btw, unless and until other posters complain about my “intrinsic almost transcendental bond with the group” - whatever tf that means - I’ll continue to post whatever I like in terms of conversations had with the players. 

Edited June 5, 2024Jun 5 by WalkingCivilWar