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2024 Preseason Training Thread


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6 hours ago, Macca said:

More to the point is do you agree with me that Petracca is not just a burst player?

That's what my original post was in reference to 

And if you read the dozen posts prior to my original post, it might make sense to you

By the way, do you still blame the coach when our players miss easy shots at goal?  I'm still waiting for your reply on that baffling observation

No it made complete sense. But my response was to you stating that every week Petracca would be clocking up 15kms every week which going off the AFL tracker he actually doesn't nor did he hit the 15km mark. So not only were you way off, it wouldnt have hurt you to do your research first. 

My whole point is was highling Petracca strengths which just shows that whilst Petracca isn't a gut runner which we don't need him to be, his ability to read the game and position himself in good spots to win the footy around stoppages is elite. Also taking into account his mental strength in pushing through to contests and being the big game that he is. 

In regards to your last paragraph, please enlighten me what on earth does that actually has to do with this topic? Just because you're getting sour doesnt mean you start randomly nit picking to suit your narrative. That would be like me saying lets pull out all the ridiculous tripe you've spewed over the journey as well, which would be silly because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

And if so, can you please pin point me to my exact comment you highlighted? I actually think you've got me mixed up with someone else but happy to explore. 

Edited by dazzledavey36
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2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

 

Why would I need to research how many k's that Petracca runs when I was having a guess?  It was a generality

If I had presented my comment as fact you'd have a point but I didn't present my guess as a fact

You've once again made a mountain out of a molehill over a general comment and a guess

And you completely missed the thrust of my argument where I was saying that Petracca is much more than just a burst player

As for sounding off at Goodwin because our players missed a few shots at goal, that just highlighted your lack of accountability on the players themselves

As I said to you at the time, the players need to take ownership with their own errors.  The coach can't kick the ball for them

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9 hours ago, Macca said:

At a guess I reckon he (Petracca) would exceed 15 kilometres per game

That is a guess, not stating stating something as factual, @dazzledavey36

I didn't say ... "Make no mistake, Petracca runs at least 15 k's per game, guaranteed"

More to the point was the thrust of my argument that Petracca is much more than a burst player.  If he was such a player, he might struggle to get to contests and stoppages.  He might also struggle to position himself well around the ground

I see a player who does a lot of running and a player who impacts the game with strong bursts.  But those bursts are just part of what he brings to the table

And my original post was in reply to someone who was stating that Petracca is a burst player only.  Which I don't agree with

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29 minutes ago, Macca said:

Why would I need to research how many k's that Petracca runs when I was having a guess?  It was a generality

If I had presented my comment as fact you'd have a point but I didn't present my guess as a fact

You've once again made a mountain out of a molehill over a general comment and a guess

And you completely missed the thrust of my argument where I was saying that Petracca is much more than just a burst player

As for sounding off at Goodwin because our players missed a few shots at goal, that just highlighted your lack of accountability on the players themselves

As I said to you at the time, the players need to take ownership with their own errors.  The coach can't kick the ball for them

 "You've once again made a mountain out of a molehill"

The hypocrisy is real here. Bizarrely rambling about something thats completely off topic.

Without wanting to derail further and I'll leave it at this. Please pin point me to that discussion where I solely blame the coaches for missing goals and we can discuss further. I would like to think I'm also outlining a number of factors why we've lost games and that's purely players and coaches taking responsibility and ownership for that.

Macca, after all that, this might come as a surprise to you but I like your content and what you add on here. I don't mind having the strong robust footy discussions and look forward to having more of this in 2024.

Go Dees.

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5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Instead of concentrating on a number (amount of k's that Petracca runs in a game) the focus of the discussion within this thread was whether Petracca was a burst player only

I threw in a guess on the distances that Petracca runs in order to highlight that he isn't just a burst player otherwise he wouldn't be able to play his role as a midfielder

Burst players are often described as such because they can be deemed as running out of puff from time to time.  Petracca has real power bursting away from contests but that is just part of his overall game

Petracca finishes off games well and is full of running.  And he gets to a lot of contests and stoppages and all that requires a lot of running.  So it's jog, run, sprint (rinse and repeat) with Petracca

It should also be noted that Petracca played as a high half forward in 2019 and was our best forward as a consequence.  And that position requires a great deal of running (generally, but not always, as the position can be played in different ways)

For instance, ANB runs far and wide when he is playing as a HHF.  More so than most others playing that role.  But that's just a 'guess'

And it was rumoured that after that season (2019) that Petracca himself was requesting more midfield time

 

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On 19/01/2024 at 10:59, binman said:

I wonder if Bowser could be an on ball option? He also could be an inside mid option as like salo he is hard at it and an excllent kick. But unlike salo he quick of the mark. 

Bowser wasn't a defender as a junior, but i can't recall what his main role/position was. Was he a mid?

 

Binman, I'm glad you've raised this as one of the things I would love to see in 2024 is Bowser trialled in the midfield.

While I partially agree with others that he doesn't have the size, he's not far off, and it hasn't been an issue in the past -  he has always been undersized, and yet starred as a junior as a mid. In the words of Jason Taylor, was drafted as a possible midfielder in the mould of Sam Mitchell. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/afl-melbourne-demons-jake-bowey-journey-to-grand-final/100463912

One of the main reasons I want Bowey in the midfield is that he has the type of creative foot skills that we lack, particularly going into the forward 50. There are very few players that have both the IQ to create opportunities + the skills to deliver. Nick Daicos is the one of the best examples of these players - they create for the team mates, as opposed to reacting to their team mates. Travis Johnstone was brilliant at this this, and it is exactly what we need when going inside 50. 

Bowsers kick to Brayshaw in the third Q of the GF was an example of what i'm talking about. He saw a spot on the ground inside 50 that only Brayshaw could reach, and led Gus to the ball. He did so under immense pressure - and it led to a critical goal.

Kozzie is the other player that has similar IQ + Skills that creates with the ball by foot. You couldn't play both in the middle at the same time, but I think adding Bowser to the mix would give us exactly what we need in an era of defensive zones and flooded backlines.

Cheers

 

 

 

Edited by Wylie D
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1 hour ago, Macca said:

Instead of concentrating on a number (amount of k's that Petracca runs in a game) the focus of the discussion within this thread was whether Petracca was a burst player only

If Petracca has 40 bursts with the ball in a grand final, that'll do me!

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If memory serves me correctly Petracca racked up 10.3k with his first 30 touches in the Granny but I could be wrong. 😁

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36 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

If memory serves me correctly Petracca racked up 10.3k with his first 30 touches in the Granny but I could be wrong. 😁

Yes Petracca was everywhere that day with a stack of inside 50 entries to position as well (11 in fact, Salem & Brayshaw 7 each) 

An interesting observation of that GF win is how we kicked to a lot of 1 on 1's involving Fritsch.  And he won nearly every contest and of course, booted 6 goals

Fast forward to now and the opposition teams have flooded our forward line to a point where our inside 50 entries are often directed at packs

We have to fix that but that's up to the brains trust.  Faster and more direct ball movement for starters

Edited by Macca
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9 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

So if you’re a power burst player that can’t run all day long you’re ‘one-paced’? I’ve clearly misunderstood the meaning of one-paced all along.

It's quiet simple viney, Anb, Trac, Sparrow can run all day but run at the same pace and as the game goes on, it stays the same, guys like daicos etc can run all day but have an ability to change it up and keep it up even when late in the game there is the difference, we need that type of outside player which would help the midfield immensely. 

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22 hours ago, Macca said:

Not sure how reputable the web site is in this link but in it, they make mention that AFL players have exceeded 20k's per game

How far do AFL players run in a game

Turns out that website within that link above 'Prepare Like A Pro' was founded by none other than Jack McLean who just happens to be the MFC strength & conditioning coach

He doesn't offer any concrete evidence that players have exceeded 20k's in a game but he does reference that distance in his blog 

"... with some exceptional athletes surpassing the 20 Kilometre mark" 

But all that aside, is AFL footy at the top level the hardest endurance ball sport of all? Soccer has a squad mentality and the NFL has a roster of 50+ players that can be called upon anytime

Maybe Rugby League?  Now that's a brutal sport.  Union as well but they don't play that many consecutive games in their comps

I'm amazed that players can run so far in the AFL in a full-on contact sport and back it up every week

My opinion on 5 day breaks has changed too.  Over a long season, a couple of 5 day breaks could tip a player over the edge in terms of soft tissue injuries.  So Saturday to Thursday could be problematical despite our thirst for football on that day

It's any wonder that the push for more rotations is prevalent

Edited by Macca
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3 hours ago, demon3165 said:

It's quiet simple viney, Anb, Trac, Sparrow can run all day but run at the same pace and as the game goes on, it stays the same, guys like daicos etc can run all day but have an ability to change it up and keep it up even when late in the game there is the difference, we need that type of outside player which would help the midfield immensely. 

Trac can run all day now? I am more confused than when I started.

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I would love gus at HB or wing again. He is a good runner but lacks burst speed and when clearing contested ball he is prone to hack kicks. Out of the contest, he shines with his positioning, intercepting and overall footy smarts. 

I hope we experiment with other players like bowey, rivers, Taj as the mid option. 

If we want to take our team to the next level in 2024 we will need to take chances. I think we know what Brayshaw offers and I don't think our midfield mix is at our best when he is there.

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19 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

when clearing contested ball he is prone to hack kicks.

^ This. I love him to bits but playing him out of the centre gives you exactly that. He refuses to dish off unless he's hitting the deck or tackled. If there are players in a better position (facing the direction of play and free), he'll ignore them and hack kick over his shoulder. This works in (surge mentality) finals but not often during the season IMO.

I think he's a very creative player when he has to look for options.

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37 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

I would love gus at HB or wing again. He is a good runner but lacks burst speed and when clearing contested ball he is prone to hack kicks. Out of the contest, he shines with his positioning, intercepting and overall footy smarts. 

I hope we experiment with other players like bowey, rivers, Taj as the mid option. 

If we want to take our team to the next level in 2024 we will need to take chances. I think we know what Brayshaw offers and I don't think our midfield mix is at our best when he is there.

Trouble is that we have quite a few that can play half back (Rivers, Salem, McVee, Bowey & Brayshaw)

And right now, we may be a class mid down to start the season.  Can any of those HB's play as mids?  Possibly Rivers & McVee but it's a big step up in terms of endurance and the ability to do so (play as a mid)

Where as we know Brayshaw can play the role of a mid.  The key is for either Brayshaw to release a fellow mid or being the release player himself.  For that to happen we need better schemes from centre-bounces or stoppages

But Brayshaw can play as a holding mid or defensive mid.  From memory, a couple of times he played that role was against Adelaide & Brisbane.  And he played very well on both occasions

He was like a rock at the back end of the square

And he was the release player when king hit by the filth thug.  In the year when he finished 3rd in the Brownlow, he was often the release mid, dashing forward

We're actually quite blessed that he can play so many roles

Edited by Macca
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I take it that no one could venture out to Casey Fields today for Monday Training.???

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58 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

I take it that no one could venture out to Casey Fields today for Monday Training.???

Yeah don’t think the clubs social media team ventured out either….. pathetic with barely any updates or content as always.

Edited by 12345_54321
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44 minutes ago, 12345_54321 said:

Yeah don’t think the clubs social media team ventured out either….. pathetic with barely any updates or content as always.

They usually post photos in the afternoon after every training session. 

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7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

They usually post photos in the afternoon after every training session. 

Am aware of that. Although compared to other clubs, we are very average in any content area. Wish it would be improved upon.

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26 minutes ago, 12345_54321 said:

Am aware of that. Although compared to other clubs, we are very average in any content area. Wish it would be improved upon.

I agree.

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21 hours ago, Macca said:

My opinion on 5 day breaks has changed too.  Over a long season, a couple of 5 day breaks could tip a player over the edge in terms of soft tissue injuries.  So Saturday to Thursday could be problematical despite our thirst for football on that day

It's any wonder that the push for more rotations is prevalent

"Our" thirst? I have zero thirst for football on Thursday*. I'll go further...I think it has diluted the value of football so that by Saturday night, it's become very ho-hum.

*To be clear, I have no objection to Thursday football if it or the next day are public holidays. That's a special event.

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34 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

"Our" thirst? I have zero thirst for football on Thursday*. 

How about everyone else?

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