Agree with others on Adelaide, certainly a chance to push into top 4. How I'd love that trainer guy back at the dee's

 

Like all the other clubs, much depends on the front 3rd and how it functions

Defence is of no real concern and either is our midfield strength but our entries from the midfield to our forwards is all important

It's pleasing that we've bolstered our forward line numbers with the acquisition of McAdam & Billings and we might perhaps see some moments from Tholstrup and maybe even Windsor.  Jefferson & Fullarton might surprise too adding to the mainstays of Petty, JVR, Kozzie (forward/mid), Petracca (mid/forward), Fritsch and the small brigade

And then the connection forward.  Our release forward from our midfield and wings needs to be first rate in terms of the mids having lots of time to dispose of the ball forward without being under undue pressure (midfield schemes needs to be B+ at least) and more importantly, the quality of those disposals to the right spots forward

If we can achieve 14-18 marks inside 50 per game on average, we'll go a long way towards another top 4 finish. And a number of those marks need to be in and around the hot spot rather than boundary side

A more scientific approach heading into our forward line is required and with the acquisition of McQualter, hopefully our F50 entries improve in terms of quality

Do all that and we'll finish high up on the ladder again

Let's not forget that we've still got a high quality list ... we just need to get the best out of that list

Edited January 4, 20241 yr by Macca

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

🙋‍♀️

I reckon I watched it 20 times in the first week!!!

I misspoke.

I think I've watched around over double that.

I didn't want to sound weird but we are all friends here.

Misspoke.....I think she is related to mrliedthroughmyteeth.

Interesting how this word has popped into our modern vernacular.

Edited January 4, 20241 yr by leave it to deever

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Like all the other clubs, much depends on the front 3rd and how it functions

Defence is of no real concern and either is our midfield strength but our entries from the midfield to our forwards is all important

It's pleasing that we've bolstered our forward line numbers with the acquisition of McAdam & Billings and we might perhaps see some moments from Tholstrup and maybe even Windsor.  Jefferson & Fullarton might surprise too adding to the mainstays of Petty, JVR, Kozzie (forward/mid), Petracca (mid/forward), Fritsch and the small brigade

And then the connection forward.  Our release forward from our midfield and wings needs to be first rate in terms of the mids having lots of time to dispose of the ball forward without being under undue pressure (midfield schemes needs to be B+ at least) and more importantly, the quality of those disposals to the right spots forward

If we can achieve 14-18 marks inside 50 per game on average, we'll go a long way towards another top 4 finish. And a number of those marks need to be in and around the hot spot rather than boundary side

A more scientific approach heading into our forward line is required and with the acquisition of McQualter, hopefully our F50 entries improve in terms of quality

Do all that and we'll finish high up on the ladder again

Let's not forget that we've still got a high quality list ... we just need to get the best out of that list

Our conversion rate has been very poor the last 2 years (50-60 inside 50’s a game) We have to use the ball so much better up forward.
I know it’s obvious, but we need to actually do it. 

Edited January 4, 20241 yr by Sir Why You Little

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Our conversation rate has been very poor the last 2 years (50-60 inside 50’s a game) We have to use the ball so much better up forward.
I know it’s obvious, but we need to actually do it. 

They aren't talking to each other?

45 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

They aren't talking to each other?

Predictive Text! 😊

57 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Our conversation rate has been very poor the last 2 years (50-60 inside 50’s a game) We have to use the ball so much better up forward.
I know it’s obvious, but we need to actually do it. 

I'm confident we'll see a change of tack and we'll see it in the first month of the season (re mid/forward connection)

We may play a more medium/tall set-up, up forward so as to see more movement from our forwards (the recruitment of McAdam & Billings is a pointer)

Petracca mid/forward worked as well so we may see that move again too ... he kicked 4 goals against the Saints & Lions and at other times had 4 shots at goal (in the ĺast 3rd of the season)

And Kozzie with more midfield time (at times) won't be robbing the forward line if done properly.  Early touches does wonders for Kozzie's confidence

Edited January 4, 20241 yr by Macca

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Our conversion rate has been very poor the last 2 years (50-60 inside 50’s a game) We have to use the ball so much better up forward.
I know it’s obvious, but we need to actually do it. 

You can't fix it with Viney, Petracca and Oliver as your 3 starting mids, none have the footskills to regularly hit targets. For mine we need to get some clean users through the middle and forward of centre.......BUT..... Is Rivers disposal good enough?? Does Salem move to wing/forward?? Are any of Woewodin, Howes, Windsor or Billings up to the task?? Whilst I think Hunter has been  good I yearn for a pacy wingman with a long, penetrating kick. Again we look at the players above. 

Personally I don't see Goodwin making any substantial changes and he'll just roll the dice that we can stay fit and eke out winning scores from our entries. Personally I think our gameplan is so entrenched that we risk going backwards to fix it and then losing our key talent to age in the years ahead. No wonder they wanted Reid so badly.

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

You can't fix it with Viney, Petracca and Oliver as your 3 starting mids, none have the footskills to regularly hit targets

Actually, all 3 do have the foot skills to regularly hit targets as we've seen all 3 do just that previously

But what has happened is that all 3 are now often under pressure when disposing of the ball because our midfield schemes aren't up to scratch

So fix our schemes (and have better targets forward who present in a better way) and the problem gets solved

What we've got in the habit of doing is roosting the ball forward as a default move. Even more so when our midfielders are kicking the ball forward (under pressure) 

Bombing it long worked for a period until ... teams started flooding our forward line from early 2022 onwards

So Yze/Goodwin weren't able to get our midfield working in a more cohesive manner with decent schemes but hopefully McQualter/Goodwin will be able to.  Time will tell

But it's not all on the midfielders, our forwards have often been stagnant (as a collective) and forwards leading to the boundary line has also been problematical

We need to get away from thinking that working for a stoppage in the forward line is beneficial (because it isn't) 

Edited January 5, 20241 yr by Macca

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

We need to get away from thinking that working for a stoppage in the forward line is beneficial (because it isn't) 

It hasn't helped us get a clean score but has helped us in limiting opposition scoring...

It's going to be an interesting watch 'Macca'.

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Personally I don't see Goodwin making any substantial changes and he'll just roll the dice that we can stay fit and eke out winning scores from our entries. Personally I think our gameplan is so entrenched that we risk going backwards to fix it and then losing our key talent to age in the years ahead. No wonder they wanted Reid so badly.

This is my concern as well. Let's see how it goes

1 hour ago, rjay said:

It hasn't helped us get a clean score but has helped us in limiting opposition scoring...

It's going to be an interesting watch 'Macca'.

Yes but getting clean scores over the past 2 years has become a bigger problem in comparison to limiting the opposition from scoring

Previously (specifically 2021) bombing it long forward and working for forward line stoppages did work until ... the other teams starting flooding our forward line along with pressuring our midfield

Again, previously we've kicked long to a lot of 1-on-1's ... in the last 2 seasons those 1-on-1's have become packs due to the opposition teams flooding back (combined with our slow ball movement forward)

So what was once beneficial has became a liability

Collingwood are going to be facing the same issue as teams are now going to flood their forward line along with pressuring their delivery forward (from their mids)  But at least they won't be coming from a platform of long bombs forward

But better schemes from the midfield and faster ball movement is the key along with forwards who know where to go and what to do.  So it starts with the coaching but the players need to buy in as well

I see the problem as quite solvable ... it just needs a change of mindset and an ability to let go of the past

Collingwood have shown the way with their fast ball movement forward and crisp delivery forward (they don't bomb it long but sometimes kick long to a 1 on 1 - there's a difference) 

The Premiers often get copied but also, teams try to nullify their strengths at the same time

 

Edited January 5, 20241 yr by Macca

8 hours ago, Macca said:

Actually, all 3 do have the foot skills to regularly hit targets as we've seen all 3 do just that previously

But what has happened is that all 3 are now often under pressure when disposing of the ball because our midfield schemes aren't up to scratch

So fix our schemes (and have better targets forward who present in a better way) and the problem gets solved

What we've got in the habit of doing is roosting the ball forward as a default move. Even more so when our midfielders are kicking the ball forward (under pressure) 

Bombing it long worked for a period until ... teams started flooding our forward line from early 2022 onwards

So Yze/Goodwin weren't able to get our midfield working in a more cohesive manner with decent schemes but hopefully McQualter/Goodwin will be able to.  Time will tell

But it's not all on the midfielders, our forwards have often been stagnant (as a collective) and forwards leading to the boundary line has also been problematical

We need to get away from thinking that working for a stoppage in the forward line is beneficial (because it isn't) 

The game plan focussed on defensive forwards is the problem

We can't hold the ball inside 50 ti get a decent shot

Goodwin won't change we will have to sack him I guess to get the required changes

Unfortunately the plan has run its race in my view

21 minutes ago, Kent said:

The game plan focussed on defensive forwards is the problem

We can't hold the ball inside 50 ti get a decent shot

Goodwin won't change we will have to sack him I guess to get the required changes

Unfortunately the plan has run its race in my view

Who said he won't change...

He did last season and opened the forward half out a bit more which also opened up our defence.

Problem was injury to key players (with limited KPF's to start with) meant we closed up shop again and played a more defensive game.

It's going to be an interesting watch this year...

9 minutes ago, Kent said:

The game plan focussed on defensive forwards is the problem

We can't hold the ball inside 50 ti get a decent shot

Goodwin won't change we will have to sack him I guess to get the required changes

Unfortunately the plan has run its race in my view

Yet the recruitment of McAdam, Billings, Tholstrup & Windsor sends us into a direction that doesn't necessarily focus on defensive forward play.  But all our forwards will need to have a defensive aspect to their play

However, the recruitment of those 4 players places an emphasis on skilled forward line play.  All 4 will get some game time up forward, some more than others

Petracca being pushed forward is another pointer that we needed to change the way we go about it up forward

But it all starts out of the middle and/or the stoppages.  I'm expecting to see Kozzie play more midfield minutes as more of a forward/mid rather than just as an opportunist forward

And the acquisition of McQualter says to me that we're looking to improve our midfield schemes and delivery into the forward line (a more scientific approach)

We'll find out soon enough as we'll be playing our first game for premiership points in 2 months

On 02/01/2024 at 15:06, leave it to deever said:

Not to take anything away from our sublime 2021 flag but it's now Sixty years since we have won a granny at our home ground.

Let's hope after dropping out in straight sets two years in a row we can win this year.

I dearly want to be able to attend a grand final with us winning.

Do most of us think we will be in the mix again?

Without a shadow of a doubt. Probably never been more confident and what’s more — many many ‘experts’ have us tipping out if the 8, which in Melbourne history is just the thing we need.

In all seriousness I genuinely think the players are Uber-focused and there is a genuine bite in the group atm many are sensing is much more venomous than felt before!

 

Playing group couldn’t be in better spot health wise, Clarry aside. Fwd mix is MUCH better with recruits and actual forwards playing (we didn’t even have roo vs blues and many forget this).

Absolutely not resiling from Steven May’s line in the MCG turf.  The Demons are the ‘better team and should have smoked them’ period.

Pessimists, doubters and detractors don’t bother showing up. Those up for the ride, saddle up this side is bound for glory.

After near six decades in the doldrums one premiership ain’t enough for this core list.  

With the exception of Michael Hibberd who has been lost? Last season’s trade and high draft additions must stoke the Demon furnace. 

Media, league administrators, ‘competitors’ and assorted hangers on take note we’re not going away anytime soon.

 

Edited January 5, 20241 yr by Tarax Club
Take ☝️

Edited January 5, 20241 yr by Tarax Club
Whoops double take!

5 hours ago, Tarax Club said:

Absolutely not resiling from Steven May’s line in the MCG turf.  The Demons are the ‘better team and should have smoked them’ period.

Pessimists, doubters and detractors don’t bother showing up. Those up for the ride, saddle up this side is bound for glory.

After near six decades in the doldrums one premiership ain’t enough for this core list.  

With the exception of Michael Hibberd who has been lost? Last season’s trade and high draft additions must stoke the Demon furnace. 

Media, league administrators, ‘competitors’ and assorted hangers on take note we’re not going away anytime soon.

 

Agree though the six or more wines that still a very reasonable comment. I believe many Demon fans agree with Stevie.

Now is the time to follow it up in pre season right through to late in September. 

Lady Luck would be good for our group after 2022/23 but I fully believe that we will solve the forward and connecting issues as well as our horrible inaccuracy issues. 
 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Macca said:

schemes

Interesting descriptor. Not sure when this became a thing. I must have missed it. 

9 minutes ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Interesting descriptor. Not sure when this became a thing. I must have missed it. 

It's not necessarily a thing but is fairly self explanatory don't you think?  

e.g. 'Oliver wins the clearance and quickly handpasses to Petracca who then offloads to a bolting Kozzie who delivers it lace-out to a leading JVR (in or around the hot spot) 

If our coaches aren't planning for those sorts of outcomes what are they doing?

However, set plays out of the midfield and from stoppages have been in operation for an age ... they are just not referenced or talked about enough

Instead of that, we get a lot of fluff.  Our footy media seem to be more interested in gossip

So yeah, schemes it is.  Unless there's a better word to describe midfield clearances

2 hours ago, Macca said:

So yeah, schemes it is.  Unless there's a better word to describe midfield clearances

Happy with schemes.

1 hour ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Happy with schemes.

It's like the leading patterns from the forwards ... all important, but do our forwards know how to go about it?

Also, the ability to create separation.  It's notable that ex-backmen with regards to a 'fit' T-Mac and Petty are able to create separation in a natural way

Brown at his best is very good on the lead.  JVR is still learning, and who knows with Jefferson

So, the connection between the mids and forwards is a complex one.  Any number of variables are factors

It's going to be interesting to see what McQualter's actual role will be and how much autonomy he is afforded

Edited January 6, 20241 yr by Macca

1 hour ago, Macca said:

JVR is still learning

I heard JVR on an interview last year saying he's not a natural leading forward, he relies on the contest.

If he can add this ability to his skill set he would be a lot more effective in my view.

I hope they are working on it with him, BBB would be a good mentor in this aspect of the game.

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I heard JVR on an interview last year saying he's not a natural leading forward, he relies on the contest.

If he can add this ability to his skill set he would be a lot more effective in my view.

I hope they are working on it with him, BBB would be a good mentor in this aspect of the game.

Well he'll need to be stellar in the contests if leading up isn't his go.  There's not that many successful KPF's that aren't good on the lead

But JVR is still very young and is on a learning curve

With the flooded forward lines we see these days, there's not that many 1 on 1's to kick to.  Kicking long to a key forward these days more often than not results in a kick to a pack situation

Besides which, in an ideal world you'd like to see our midfielders hit the lead-up targets in the forward line

You'd reckon that leading into space would be a bread & butter move for a forward.  I understand that the space isn't always available but you've still got to play the percentages

e.g. 1 mark per 30 minute quarter (around the hot spot) results in 4 shots at goal from virtually straight in front.  And a KPF doesn't always have to mark on the lead ... he can win a free kick and then there's the front & square smalls

You're right rjay, they need to be working on it with JVR

Edited January 6, 20241 yr by Macca