PREGAME: SF vs Carlton

[Rhino 56]

9 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

What's all this about Hibbo? After the first quarter he was right on top of Elliott, who is a VERY good player!!

Hibberd kept tabs on Eliot !!! We lost this match at selection table Grundy should have been selected He would have put a knee into the goggled Yank 

 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

Ben Brown ain’t playing again

[Jaded No More 67,771]

I hope we get an update from the club today about Gus. 
I know it’s early in the recovery process, but would be good to hear that he’s feeling ok and expected to make a full recovery. 
Really heartbreaking to see him on the ground for so long. He is such an important hard at it player, who always goes in hard no matter how dangerous it may be to his own health. 

[Great Northern Summer 701]

Out: Van Rooyen, Brayshaw, Laurie, Salem, McDonald

In: Turner/Tomlinson, Spargo, Jordan, Grundy, Schache

[Rhino 56]

8 hours ago, Deespicable said:

The whole week will now be spent talking about our dysfunctional forward line and it's up to the boss to figure out how to reconfigure. and with van Rooyen a monte to be out, we have to do so.

But to me, Grundy has to play - yes we all know he's not a forward but he allows us to use Gawny up there for a little bit and he is a big body to try and spoil. With Brown unfit, he's just got to play. He's also a tackler and we will need that with Brayshaw out.

The other change is that we have to go back to playing Trac up there for more minutes - yes I know he is a clearance beast, but we have cover in that department with Sparrow and Viney and Rivers if we want, but we don't have an option now - we need someone to kick goals and Trac and Fritter and Kozzy are our three most likely.

To me our seven forwards are: Fritsch, Kozzy, Trac, Grundy, ANB and then a decision on whether we play Spargo or go radical with the pace of Moniz-Wakefield instead of Chandler. And as much as people will hate it - Harmes has to play as well - unfortunately at finals time you need a mix of grunt and Chandler is classy, but just not physical enough for night games. Harmes is. The sub can be T-Mac - yes he's too slow, but at least with the pace off the game, he may be able to make an impact after half time and he at least can also play defence if we get an injury.

I also left out Smith, but we just have to add him to our defence - we need his pace to help counter the over the back play that Papley (if Swans win) or Motlop (if Blues win) that the Pies exploited and the good thing is we can still send him forward if things aren't working - just as he should have been sent back in the first term against the Pies. You are allowed to swap players mid-game Goody! And by sending Rivers into the midfield rotation, we make room for Smith who can play on bigs or smalls.

The only other player in doubt is Salem - he really has just not been able to get back to his 2021 form, but it's now probably too late to make the hard call on him. 

Out: Brayshaw, Van Rooyen (susp), Chandler, T-Mac, Lawrie (sub)

In: Jordon, Grundy, Spargo, Harmes

Sub: T-Mac

B: McVee May Smith

HB: Bowey Lever Hibberd

C: Langon Sparrow Hunter

HF: ANB Grundy Harmes

F: Kozzie Fritsch Petracca

Ru: Gawn Oliver Viney

Int: Spargo (fwd), Rivers (mid), Jordon (mid) Salem (def)

Sub: T-Mac

  

  Concur with these changes Grundy in makes it easier for Max to run out game Conditions helped pies but we Must kick goals!!!

 

 

 

[leucopogon 1,518]

1 minute ago, Glorious Day said:

Out: Van Rooyen, Brayshaw, Laurie, Salem, McDonald

In: Turner/Tomlinson, Spargo, Jordan, Grundy, Schache

Has Goodwin ever made that many changes? Can't see more than 3 myself. 

Out: JVR (suspension), Gus (conc), Laurie (omitted)

In: Grundy (last roll of the dice), Jordon, Tomlinson

I would normally drop Tmac but since JVR is likely to be suspended, he stays.

Smith the sub.

[Great Northern Summer 701]

Just now, leucopogon said:

Has Goodwin ever made that many changes? Can't see more than 3 myself. 

Out: JVR (suspension), Gus (conc), Laurie (omitted)

In: Grundy (last roll of the dice), Jordon, Tomlinson

I would normally drop Tmac but since JVR is likely to be suspended, he stays.

Smith the sub.

Of course he hasn’t but two of them will be forced.

Salem hasn’t done anything useful for months.

McDonald was nowhere near the level required. Same for Laurie.

 

[Hatchman 538]

Jordan in for Brayshaw

Grundy in for JVR (who will get at least one week for the cheap hit). I'm expecting Grundy will alternate with Tmac in the forward line. 

Spargo as the sub in-place of Laurie (who played poorly)

 

No changes to the backline, they did very well. Only way Turner is getting a game is if Hibberd is injured.

 

 

[Demonsone 1,957]

In all this a chance we could have a straight sets exit 2 years in the row yet Goody has a 3 year extension. I’m a fan of Goody but very concerning as our finals footy isn’t holding up with losses in our last 3 finals 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Demonsone

[rufus 1,050]

Just have the weirdest feeling about how it is all unfolding for us after last night.

I personally do not believe the problem was that much to do with our method going forward. We were pathetic in the contest in Q1 (really could have been down 35 at qtr time), and all game our forwards were frankly embarrassing. They were given more than enough chances to win the game and they completely sh@t the bed.

It's weird because I think we have a method and a midfield and a backline that is so dominant that I think we should make it to the GF and then beat Coll on the day...yet I fully expect that we will lose next week. I still have no confidence in this club just finding a way.

[rufus 1,050]

4 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

In all this a chance we could have a straight sets exit 2 years in the row yet Goody has a 3 year extension. I’m a fan of Goody but very concerning as our finals footy isn’t holding up with losses in our last 3 finals 

Goody can't go out there and kick it for them. He's given them a method that generated 26 shots at goal to 16, despite the players starting the game like under 14s playing a match against the under 16s.

Is it his job to get them motivated to start the game with the requisite intensity? Maybe, but you would think that after last year's finals debacle a bit of pride would have seen the players drive that themselves.

[leucopogon 1,518]

27 minutes ago, Glorious Day said:

Of course he hasn’t but two of them will be forced.

Salem hasn’t done anything useful for months.

McDonald was nowhere near the level required. Same for Laurie.

 

I agree with you about Salem. His drop in form has been sad. But who replaces him, maybe Smith shifts to defence? Lever needs to play alongside two lockdown KPDs (May and Tomlinson or Turner) in order to function effectively. That's disappointing for probably one of our highest paid players.

Edited September 7, 2023 by leucopogon

[leave it to deever 17,462]

10 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

There’s no way Schache could have played worse that TMAC tonight. Given Van may go, he has to be considered. However much he’s maligned. For starters, he’s a great set shot

I don't care if we lose. Tmac has no business playing. There I've said it.

Jvr will get a week but that's no biggy.  He will be a very good player in 2 years. Why we haven't tried Thommo fwd I don't understand. We have trialled two other defenders. Any one than Tmac.

I think we all groaned for this reason when Milk went down. We have carried McDonald for two years and I do mean carried. He cannot run or mark. 

We have Fritra who has missed half a season and then Kozzie who has been average for half a season.

The club has been caught napping over its inertia towards fixing our fwd line. We saw Bbb and Tmac imploding a long time ago. We knew Milk was on tge cusp of retirement. We ignored the fact that Jvr was just beginning. But in our arrogance we thought we had enough players even if we did have to butcher our backline. Than some Einstein said let's fix it with a nother ruckman who can play fwd. Despite the fact the bloke cannot take a mark. Also was the idea behind Schscke. Was he ever any good as a fwd anywhere?

 

 

[Demon17 5,084]

10 hours ago, Mickey said:

Jumping the gun a bit. Should be SF, not PF.

 

TMac and Hibbo out. Grundy and Tommo in. Tommo isn't great, but we need to get the three talls down back

We don't lose (so far) with May , Lever and Tommo together.

[fr_ap 2,433]

10 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I don’t know if I have it in me to go out in straight sets to Collingwood and Carlton. 

Real vibe of 'why did we bother going through the season' at the moment isnt there 

What's the point of it all! The week to week ups and downs, when this is where it ends!

[Demon17 5,084]

38 minutes ago, Glorious Day said:

Out: Van Rooyen, Brayshaw, Laurie, Salem, McDonald

In: Turner/Tomlinson, Spargo, Jordan, Grundy, Schache

Nailed it.

[Sydee 4,202]

1 hour ago, Boots and all said:

His elbow seemed to clip his jaw on the replay. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get a week.

Oh - a bit like the Petracca goal that the Carlton player clipped the ball on the goal line 

Sorry I forgot there seems to be different rules / standards applicable to whoever is the AFL darlings 

JVR had his elbow tucked when he contacted McFlop - nothing to it - if it was a Daicos or Cripps it wouldn't even get a mention 

[Anti-Saint 245]

what time does Kristian bring down MRO verdict?

[Bates Mate 4,425]

27 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I don't care if we lose. Tmac has no business playing. There I've said it.

Jvr will get a week but that's no biggy.  He will be a very good player in 2 years. Why we haven't tried Thommo fwd I don't understand. We have trialled two other defenders. Any one than Tmac.

I think we all groaned for this reason when Milk went down. We have carried McDonald for two years and I do mean carried. He cannot run or mark. 

We have Fritra who has missed half a season and then Kozzie who has been average for half a season.

The club has been caught napping over its inertia towards fixing our fwd line. We saw Bbb and Tmac imploding a long time ago. We knew Milk was on tge cusp of retirement. We ignored the fact that Jvr was just beginning. But in our arrogance we thought we had enough players even if we did have to butcher our backline. Than some Einstein said let's fix it with a nother ruckman who can play fwd. Despite the fact the bloke cannot take a mark. Also was the idea behind Schscke. Was he ever any good as a fwd anywhere?

 

 

Agree our personnel in the fwd line is lacking but which gun forwards have been available in the past 2-3 years that we missed out on? Schace was a swap for weid and effectively the same player was never going to be the answer but worth a shot given the price we paid.

[brendan 3,430]

Apparently there is a vfl practice match today between Casey and Carlton plenty of spots up for grabs 

[Sydee 4,202]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

In - Grundy, Tomlinson, Jordon

Out - JVR (susp), Salem, Brayshaw, Laurie 

Grundy to be a direct replacement for JVR. The Gawn/Grundy combo has partially worked in some of our early-mid season dry weather games. The very long range forecast has Friday night as a warm dry night.

Tomlinson as an obvious in for Harry McKay (sorry I’m convinced Carlton are winning tonight)

Salem dropped. Harsh call but he’s statistically a bottom 60 player and has played like that the last 2 weeks. What has happened to that class act who was good for 20 quality disposals a game?

JJ a direct replacement for Brayshaw, albeit certainly not an upgrade.

Laurie to again be sub, or worse dropped outright. What other sub options from we have? Spargo?

Or does Spargo replace Chandler, and Chandler is sub?

 

Mentally is Grundy still a Demon or has he already checked out of the building?

I suspect he has at least one foot out the door as he is meeting other clubs while we ae still playing finals.

We saw how effective Jackson was after his mind left to go west.

Tomlinson can't compete with any big forward that has a) speed or b) can jump more than 5 cm off the ground so not sure he gets a game unless there is a specific match up that suits - I can't think of one in either Carlton or Sydney (which is the reason Turner played in Sydney)

JVR shouldn't be suspended but we always seem to be on the wrong side of the Tribunal

Laurie isn't ready for the heat of finals - I'd also say Chandler would be very lucky to retain his spot - personally prefer Spargo who while not a big possession getter is one of our best and most creative users inside F50 - something we are poor at atm. 

We lost this game because despite having almost double the number of F50 entries we continue to hack the ball in high and slow - unless we wake up and address that we are going to lose most games, particularly finals. Our efficiency inside F50 of 33% last night is really embarrassing and some real soul searching needs to happen very quickly. 

 

[Roost it far 7,423]

We lose Brayshaw and likely replace him with JJ

We lose JVR and it's no one, I think they'll go with Grundy but Schache would be just as useful

Can't see them making any other changes except maybe the sub position but for whom?

[leave it to deever 17,462]

15 minutes ago, Bates Mate said:

Agree our personnel in the fwd line is lacking but which gun forwards have been available in the past 2-3 years that we missed out on? Schace was a swap for weid and effectively the same player was never going to be the answer but worth a shot given the price we paid.

A rookie from Benalla 2nds would give us more than Schache and Tmac.

But in all seriousness did we leave every stone unturned? I think we just thought oh wait let's get another ruck.

Good clubs go out of their way to get the players they need. And they make ruthless choices with tge ones tvey dont. How long did we persist with Weid when all signs said otherwise. He had 5 seasons I think.

I'm just saying that the problems with Tmac surfaced two years ago.

We seemed to go out of our way for mids and smalls for a time and neglect kpps.

[Jjrogan 1,391]

I'd love to know what KMs Trac did last night and how much different it was compared to previous weeks when he was more forward.   

He has been absolutely flying in the last halves of games for 2 months now as he's been so fresh.  I'm extremely worried about next week. That game took a lot out of him.  

One of these weeks we are going to get slaughtered around the ball and have a 8 goal loss.  Viney has been massive all year but how much more can he lift. Can JJ lift to finals intensity for 4 quarters? Clarrie can get his usual 30 touches, his scoreboard impact is below average.  Through bad timing, injuries and awful kicking, we are sitting ducks right now.   

The one thing we have going is culture and incredible mental resilience. On paper we are in trouble.

 

[leave it to deever 17,462]

53 minutes ago, rufus said:

it his job to get them motivated to start the game with the requisite intensity? Maybe, but you would think that after last year's finals debacle a bit of pride would have seen the players drive that themselves.

It's a "good" point.  I think I'd rather a hard yelling hyped up on the edge coach at times who yells at players and pumps them up. Maybe he does behind closed doors.

But your right the motivation needs to come from the players . And if seeing your mate carried off like that doesn't get your blood pumping then nothing will.

I'd like to think maybe it distracted them but our slow starts have been there all year.