On 12/08/2023 at 13:53, Binmans PA said:

I don't think it was just their pressure though.

We were off for large portions of the game, and certainly the first half. The best example was allowing their half backs and mids handball receives exiting our A50 and even through the corridor. It have them repeated territory.

Either our pressure was off or we were too positionally aggressive defending those short uncontested marks. And as we saw, Carlton smashed us for uncontested possessions. The top possession getters for the first half were pretty much all Carlton half backs, who were allowed to do what they wanted and set up play.

Did our players or coaches not give those guys enough respect in the first half? 

We certainly ensured they got less of these handball receive releases in the second half, and it meant they were having to kick to more contests, what we wanted them to do. Unfortunately, we didn't intercept mark and we didn't win the ground ball efficiently enough.

It also meant we lost Kozzy up the ground a bit where he was super dangerous early, because he became the guy tracking all the handball receive runners inside our A50.

I'm not sure if we didn't give enough respect or if we simply had our balance off from various forced and unforced changes.  Obviously Clarry is great, but our midfield seemed a little less settled (eg Sparrow seemed less certain of his role), plus the combo of Smith back early and Grundy up forward... altogether seemed to upset us a little.  Going to watch the replay tomorrow when sober and see what's what though

  On 12/08/2023 at 13:57, DeelightfulPlay said:

I'm not sure if we didn't give enough respect or if we simply had our balance off from various forced and unforced changes.  Obviously Clarry is great, but our midfield seemed a little less settled (eg Sparrow seemed less certain of his role), plus the combo of Smith back early and Grundy up forward... altogether seemed to upset us a little.  Going to watch the replay tomorrow when sober and see what's what though

Yep, agreed, I think you're probably spot on. 

I hope we can find some synergy over the next fortnight in all three zones of the ground. Otherwise, we're in big trouble.

Backline was brilliant in that first quarter, could easily have been 5 goals down.

Midfield non existent early, beaten up at our own game.

Jordon Melksham out

Hibberd Tomlinson in

Smith forward Melksham sub

  On 12/08/2023 at 12:14, ucanchoose said:

Insufficient evidence.   But we didn't lose it in the last minute.  We lost it the first 2 minutes of the last qtr. Gutsy loss

Lost it in the first 2.5 quarters.

24 inside 50s to 4 in the first quarter 🤬

Have to say I was really proud with the fightback. Should never have been 3 goals down but had we pulled it off that would have been seriously spectacular.

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by layzie

  On 12/08/2023 at 13:53, Binmans PA said:

I don't think it was just their pressure though.

We were off for large portions of the game, and certainly the first half. The best example was allowing their half backs and mids handball receives exiting our A50 and even through the corridor. It have them repeated territory.

Either our pressure was off or we were too positionally aggressive defending those short uncontested marks. And as we saw, Carlton smashed us for uncontested possessions. The top possession getters for the first half were pretty much all Carlton half backs, who were allowed to do what they wanted and set up play.

Did our players or coaches not give those guys enough respect in the first half? 

We certainly ensured they got less of these handball receive releases in the second half, and it meant they were having to kick to more contests, what we wanted them to do. Unfortunately, we didn't intercept mark and we didn't win the ground ball efficiently enough.

It also meant we lost Kozzy up the ground a bit where he was super dangerous early, because he became the guy tracking all the handball receive runners inside our A50.

I'm surprised we got so close.  They were the better team mainly because we didn't bring our A game

Plus, they played very well and from a total football angle, probably their best big game performance in a long time

Any bids higher than 6.5 out of 10 for our performance?  If not, 6.5 ain't gonna get it done

I like to project forward with these sorts of games

So if that's as good as we've got, can we win the GF?  Can't see it

But we know we can play a lot better, we just didn't bring it tonight

So there's no despondency nor are there any excuses

We got outplayed (tonight)

By the way, nothing to do with loading or tapering.  Unless........

  On 12/08/2023 at 13:40, Gawndy the Great said:

You going to let the secret out of the bag - there is no way I’m falling asleep before 3 tonight.

I reckon it’s a loss we can learn a lot from. The level required is higher than we’ve been playing the last few weeks. Our half forwards and mids got a fair bit wrong tonight, and they’ll be annoyed.

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:00, Dr. Gonzo said:

24 inside 50s to 4 in the first quarter 🤬

I can't recall such a differential ever under Goody. It was bizarre. We were hopeless early, but they were brilliant. And we never really got going, but our system saved us early.

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:02, Binmans PA said:

I can't recall such a differential ever under Goody. It was bizarre. We were hopeless early, but they were brilliant. And we never really got going, but our system saved us early.

From midway through the 3rd the game was played on our terms except for the first couple of minutes if the last quarter. We just couldn't score 😞

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:01, The heart beats true said:

I reckon it’s a loss we can learn a lot from. The level required is higher than we’ve been playing the last few weeks. Our half forwards and mids got a fair bit wrong tonight, and they’ll be annoyed.

Think we've been drinking the cool aid a bit. Time to put the pedal to the rubber

  On 12/08/2023 at 13:39, praha said:

I'll let them wear it. Haven't played finals in a decade. We were the same once. And I gave it to them last year. They deserved it. Good on them.

I spoke to a Carlton supporter after the game who was gracious. We both agreed we do not want to see Collingwood in the gf. He actually said I think Melbourne will make it.

Thank goodness those men behind me left after quarter time. Obviously stayed in a bar. they would have been unbearable at the end

  On 12/08/2023 at 13:40, Demon Dynasty said:

At one stage Cripps was caught by 3 diff tacklers consecutively.  He might have successfully shrugged the first.

However, after then trying to shrug the  next two, the 2nd & 3rd stuck and he  dropped the ball, literally flopping it one hand and just releasing it as one arm was pinned.  No free play on.

He was caught red hot and 100% incorrect disposal but they just wouldn't ping him tonight.

This sort of rubbish must make a player feel like he is untouchable.  Had a VG game but too often gets a lovely helping hand to enhance things.

Couldn’t agree more. They were hot on us for holding the ball but plenty of times they got away with incorrect disposal. It’s the complete inconsistency which makes everyone so angry. How in earth Bowey’s mark was not allowed in the 4th when he moved his player but then some Carlton player moved Kossey in the same way a few minutes later it’s fine. That’s what drives us mad. 

The umpiring seemed extremely ****house tonight. I hate blaming them for a loss and Carlton were good but my god the amount of scragging, pushing and blocking they got away with!

Carlton player jumps on Maxys head doesn't touch the ball. Play on.

Carlton player tries to evade a tackle. Ball end up dropping out of his hands when trying to handball. Play on.

Player sits square on Sparrows back. Play on.

JVR has his legs taken out. Play on.

And that was just the last quarter.

Carlton players getting away with fistfuls of jumpers right in front of the umps.

Most of these happened directly in front of the umpire so it's not an issue of "they didn't see it". There is something seriously wrong with the way our game is officiated, it is a joke.

And how can the goal umpire call touched if he didn't see it? If it has to go to score review there should be evidence it is touched otherwise it should be a goal.

Furious. 🤬🤬

I know it was wet but our players kept slipping over a lot especially in crucial moments. 

At one point Melksham fell over on the wing with no one near him.p

We were seriously outnumbered to night 90% Carlton supporters 

Backline and forward line have issues but we aren’t really going to solve either of them.

Have to live with a backline that is mostly good but doesn’t have the personnel (no clear 3rd tall) or elite form to be great.

Have to live with whatever difficult choices the coaches go with up forward. 

The big question mark is do we change up the midfield mix or hope improvement in Clarry is enough to get it done?

The current set up just can’t string together quality kicking and run. Especially on a wet night. Not enough dual sided players or creative players who find space for themselves and find team mates.

A finals like game. We had another gear in us but we never got it going. 
We can play better. 
 

But we have to get this side settled now. Enough with the shuffling of defenders and enough with the Grawndy experiment. Clarry better for the run and hopefully the mids start humming again. They were very average tonight, except Gus who was sensational and worked his guts out. 

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

  On 12/08/2023 at 12:21, Clint Bizkit said:

It’s all about team selection, if we get it right we look so much better.

Jordon should never have been in the team, Hibberd has confirmed he’s a lock for finals. I’d still have Tomlinson in there and Hibberd over one of McVee/Salem/Bowey who are all guns but Hibberd so important.

Grundy isn’t a forward, he’s a ruck who rests forward which is why we need Smith down there as well and ideally another marking option if we have any.

Melksham isn’t a lock anymore if he can’t take marks.

Honestly…as soon as you mentioned dropping McVee you proved that you have NFI. What a bad take

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:08, Dr. Gonzo said:

The umpiring seemed extremely ****house tonight. I hate blaming them for a loss and Carlton were good but my god the amount of scragging, pushing and blocking they got away with!

Carlton player jumps on Maxys head doesn't touch the ball. Play on.

Carlton player tries to evade a tackle. Ball end up dropping out of his hands when trying to handball. Play on.

Player sits square on Sparrows back. Play on.

JVR has his legs taken out. Play on.

And that was just the last quarter.

Carlton players getting away with fistfuls of jumpers right in front of the umps.

Most of these happened directly in front of the umpire so it's not an issue of "they didn't see it". There is something seriously wrong with the way our game is officiated, it is a joke.

And how can the goal umpire call touched if he didn't see it? If it has to go to score review there should be evidence it is touched otherwise it should be a goal.

Furious. 🤬🤬

Sparrow one made me the most cross. Umpired even commented it wasn’t taking the knees so he saw it. Then a Carlton player got a free for less in the back against Oliver a few minutes later in the same position. 

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:01, layzie said:

Have to say I was really proud with the fightback. Should never have been 3 goals down but had we pulled it off that would have been seriously spectacular.

Carlton never looked like scoring in the 1st. They kicked it to contest after contest hoping Curnow would clunk one. We absorbed it brilliantly but couldn't get it out. We defended better than they did imo across the entire game. We gave them easy access and possession and entries but we set up behind the ball very well. That was finals calibre defense. They had 26% F50 efficiency. You just don't win finals with that.

  On 12/08/2023 at 12:19, Smokey said:

Thought JVR played his heart out tonight. Such good signs of things to come. 
 

Still backing us come September. 

Those two set shots he missed in the 2nd came back to bite us but I agree, he needs a foil though. Hopefully that's Fritsch in September.

Am I wrong or is this a free to Max? He’s running back to get to the contest and the Carlton player deliberately blocks him and prevents him from getting there?
If so why can’t 1 of 4 umpires see it?!?

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by Dusty_Hill

Grundy ain’t a forward and the conditions certainly did not help his cause. It’s unbalanced the structure though. It looked off. Rather Schache, who is a versatile, albeit soft, Footballer . We miss the 2nd genuine forward, and just didn’t seem to have much through the midfield tonight. The wet is our nemesis. Completely takes away that intercept marking game. 

  On 12/08/2023 at 14:08, Dr. Gonzo said:

The umpiring seemed extremely ****house tonight. I hate blaming them for a loss and Carlton were good but my god the amount of scragging, pushing and blocking they got away with!

Carlton player jumps on Maxys head doesn't touch the ball. Play on.

Carlton player tries to evade a tackle. Ball end up dropping out of his hands when trying to handball. Play on.

Player sits square on Sparrows back. Play on.

JVR has his legs taken out. Play on.

And that was just the last quarter.

Carlton players getting away with fistfuls of jumpers right in front of the umps.

Most of these happened directly in front of the umpire so it's not an issue of "they didn't see it". There is something seriously wrong with the way our game is officiated, it is a joke.

And how can the goal umpire call touched if he didn't see it? If it has to go to score review there should be evidence it is touched otherwise it should be a goal.

Furious. 🤬🤬

Sparrow one made me the most cross. Umpired even commented it wasn’t taking the knees so he saw it. Then a Carlton player got a free for less in the back against Oliver a few minutes later in the same position.