On 23/07/2023 at 13:09, Pulp Fritschon said:

4 goals up at 3/4. Scores level after 5 mins in. Then back out by 20. Great response. Exciting last quarter. I know I left the game pumped. 
 

Talk that crows missed sets shots but in the last it was us that missed 3 easy/gettable chances - Brayshaw, Gawn, Langdon. Also the smith with the umpires call touch. Crows also 2 goals from umpires - Lever down field and Kozzie 50. Crows missed one chance in the last. 
 

Positive signs for me are they we are starting to score again. Tackles inside 50 Adelaide 13 Melbourne 1. We don’t need to be that  lock-in it forward half team all the time.  We can score with our ball movement. Some signs of 2021 returning for me. Grundy/Smith for Brown. Fritsch back at some stage. Need to be able to score to win the flag. 

Disappointing that Smith wasn't on at the start of the 4th. We lost our 4 goal buffer in the first 5 mins, before belatedly taking Brown off who was ineffectual. It was a very slow reaction and we can't afford to let the foot off the pedal in a final. We need to be more professional, Brown was the obvious change as Smith could play his role and mark, which he did as soon as he came on. Smith contested, Brown could not.

  On 24/07/2023 at 08:26, Jaded No More said:

You try playing AFL level football with a knee that is bone on bone and then tell me how soft you are 🙄

Ben Brown has a much better idea of how to play a key position forward role than just about anyone else on our list. His body is unfortunately not what it once was and he’s bravely battling on because nobody else has been able to step it up! 

Jaded, in fairness, if his body is completely banged up and is bone on bone then he simply shouldn't be playing at AFL level.

I'm a big Benny Brown fan more then anyone but he was pretty woeful yesterday. He was easily beaten one on one by Jordan Butts and Nick Murray who are inexperienced defenders. To put it kindly it wasn't pretty too watch, and for a guy so big he was easily ragdolled. Goody speaks about being ruthless in the contest and I saw zero of that.

Whilst you say there are no other options available, I'll argue that we have Petty (yes I know he was out injured) who's proven the forward experiment can work, Grundy and even Schache who is fit and would have provided better output then Brown yesterday.

I personally like to see Petty take his spot. He's physically better in one on ones and not someone that gets pushed off so easily.

We have 7 weeks to get this right, why not give Petty a go.

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by dazzledavey36

  On 23/07/2023 at 13:48, Juk3b0x said:

This was what I heard too, so I went into the replay later on focused on what BBB offered and couldn’t disagree at all.

Keep making leads, was our exit target outside 50 (successfully and unsuccessfully) on a number of occasions, kept impacting the ball in the air and bringing to ground, and forward of centre was minded by two opponents in his own and what I assume was a float spare (i.e the Lever type role) without being beaten in the air - but not having the support there to stop the turnover once it hit the ground. 

Was a bit surprised by the DL opinion on his game - I’m hoping he keeps getting a game and gets some more reward like his start to the 2023 season. 

Brown had a lot of opportunities but couldn't mark even when he was one on one. He was a liability, had he not been subbed off we would've lost.

I think it’s okay not to rate Brown or think he’s going any good. I think it’s pretty clear to everyone he’s not moving as well as he used to. I have him as an out in the pregame thread.

It’s when you start being all keyboard warrior about it that people will rightfully start jumping down your throat. As a career AFL full forward, Ben Brown would have been scragged, scruffed, punched in the guts, arms and head (half the time on purpose) more than most of the rest of us put together. Soft. Please.

Anyway I would have hoped our premiership full forward would have earned a bit more respect from Melbourne fans than that.

  On 23/07/2023 at 22:38, pitmaster said:

Smith was enormously effective in his one quarter, whereas BBB, despite pushing upfield and making himself a target at times, seemed unable to get to contests in the F50 which allowed numerous virtually uncontested intercept marks for their defenders.

I suspect Smith's agility would enable him to make those contests BBB could not, so maybe he should be given a full game. The only query is that he seems to fade out of games when he takes the field early. Is he fit enough, mentally sharp enough, to be worth the gamble?

Yep. He has an enormous vertical leap and will at least contest. Sure Brown is a very accurate kick, but he didn't take one mark in the F50 whereas Smith took one as soon as he got into position. Can't play on rep, must select on form.

  On 24/07/2023 at 08:17, Tracca said:

He is the softest player in our forward line lol. You are kidding me right? Bloke has no idea how to attack the football, arms go to jelly as soon as they are hit….. he’s toast and hope he doesn’t play again we need a player that competes in the air not just sticks an arm up. Blind Freddy saw it yesterday hence why he was subbed

Tracca you obviously have something against BB in totum i feel yes?

Yesterday's game is in no way a reflection of BB's usual standards nor the way he's gone about his career. 

You would know this if you took your 'hate for BB' hat off me thinks assuming you've watched enough of him throughout his career.

If he's on one leg of course he will not be at his best and the FD were probably intending to sub him all along as a result.

The fact he's stuck his hand up with the issue mentioned shows that he still has the G&D to keep giving his best for the club under some duress.

Same with his Casey appearances. 

That is a diff level of course but he's been VG at times throughout the year there as well.

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:11, Nasher said:

I think it’s okay not to rate Brown or think he’s going any good. I think it’s pretty clear to everyone he’s not moving as well as he used to. I have him as an out in the pregame thread.

It’s when you start being all keyboard warrior about it that people will rightfully start jumping down your throat. As a career AFL full forward, Ben Brown would have been scragged, scruffed, punched in the guts, arms and head (half the time on purpose) more than most of the rest of us put together. Soft. Please.

Anyway I would have hoped our premiership full forward would have earned a bit more respect from Melbourne fans than that.

old mate @Tracca has kicked a goal at AFL level, so he must know 'what it takes' of course.

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:06, dazzledavey36 said:

Jaded, in fairness, if his body is completely banged up and is bone on bone then he simply shouldn't be playing at AFL level.

I'm a big Benny Brown fan more then anyone but he was pretty woeful yesterday. He was easily beaten one on one by Jordan Butts and Nick Murray who are inexperienced defenders. To put it kindly it wasn't pretty too watch, and for a guy so big he was easily ragdolled. Goody speaks about being ruthless in the contest and I saw zero of that.

Whilst you say there are no other options available, I'll argue that we have Petty (yes I know he was out injured) who's proven the forward experiment can work, Grundy and even Schache who is fit and would have provided better output then Brown yesterday.

I personally like to see Petty take his spot. He's physically better in one on ones and not someone that gets pushed off so easily.

We have 7 weeks to get this right, why not give Petty a go.

I’m all for Petty going forward. I’ve said that over and over again. Clearly Goodwin and co want him down back. 

Brown is playing for lack of options. It’s no wonder they’re trying to force the forward issue with Grundy. They know BB and Tmac are cooked and we need another big body to force a contest, but Grundy will never have the forward smarts or leading patterns of Ben Brown.

Go back and watch some of the goals yesterday. The space we were able to find inside 50, was often because Ben Brown was leading higher up to pull his defender and open the space behind him for the likes of Kosi and Chandler, who could never take a mark with a big pack around them (and rightly so, they’re smalls).

He still, bung knee and all, commands respect in the contest. 

Do I think he is just about done? Yes I do. 
Do I think anyone has the right to call him soft? I think you and I both know the answer to that. 

A man who has kicked over 300 AFL goals and was an integral part of a premiership winning forwardline, is not, never has, and will never be soft. 
 

And on a side note, he is also a magnificent human off the field who gives a lot of his time to worthy causes. He deserves more respect than he’s currently being shown by a few keyboard heroes. 

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:06, dazzledavey36 said:

Jaded, in fairness, if his body is completely banged up and is bone on bone then he simply shouldn't be playing at AFL level.

I'm a big Benny Brown fan more then anyone but he was pretty woeful yesterday. He was easily beaten one on one by Jordan Butts and Nick Murray who are inexperienced defenders. To put it kindly it wasn't pretty too watch, and for a guy so big he was easily ragdolled. Goody speaks about being ruthless in the contest and I saw zero of that.

Whilst you say there are no other options available, I'll argue that we have Petty (yes I know he was out injured) who's proven the forward experiment can work, Grundy and even Schache who is fit and would have provided better output then Brown yesterday.

I personally like to see Petty take his spot. He's physically better in one on ones and not someone that gets pushed off so easily.

We have 7 weeks to get this right, why not give Petty a go.

Thankyou for speaking logically!

Oliver is top in the comp for winning the ball at the contest. No question. 

But we have a number of players who excel in that area. So the talk of us missing him is over-hyped and our results both with and without him say as much. 

Our problems have nothing to do with him being in or out of our side and there's an argument that suggests we are a more effective and balanced side in his absence as well as being more unpredictable. 

Oliver's loss is not like losing May at his best or Gawn.

Let's not think it is. 

 

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:24, Engorged Onion said:

old mate @Tracca has kicked a goal at AFL level, so he must know 'what it takes' of course.

Nah I just can see someone who’s toasted and can give 100% to our football club and bbb can’t at the moment as his knee is gorne 

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:14, samcantstandya said:

Yep. He has an enormous vertical leap and will at least contest. Sure Brown is a very accurate kick, but he didn't take one mark in the F50 whereas Smith took one as soon as he got into position. Can't play on rep, must select on form.

Apart from the odd qtr, what has Joel Smith done at AFL level as a key forward?  And it helps when you come on fresh as a sub. To say that Joel Smith replaces BBB based on form is bizarre.

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:25, Jaded No More said:

I’m all for Petty going forward. I’ve said that over and over again. Clearly Goodwin and co want him down back. 

Brown is playing for lack of options. It’s no wonder they’re trying to force the forward issue with Grundy. They know BB and Tmac are cooked and we need another big body to force a contest, but Grundy will never have the forward smarts or leading patterns of Ben Brown.

Go back and watch some of the goals yesterday. The space we were able to find inside 50, was often because Ben Brown was leading higher up to pull his defender and open the space behind him for the likes of Kosi and Chandler, who could never take a mark with a big pack around them (and rightly so, they’re smalls).

He still, bung knee and all, commands respect in the contest. 

Do I think he is just about done? Yes I do. 
Do I think anyone has the right to call him soft? I think you and I both know the answer to that. 

A man who has kicked over 300 AFL goals and was an integral part of a premiership winning forwardline, is not, never has, and will never be soft. 
 

And on a side note, he is also a magnificent human off the field who gives a lot of his time to worthy causes. He deserves more respect than he’s currently being shown by a few keyboard heroes. 

I’ll rephrase it for you. 
 

he is less ruthless than a lot of our list

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:25, Jaded No More said:

I’m all for Petty going forward. I’ve said that over and over again. Clearly Goodwin and co want him down back. 

Brown is playing for lack of options. It’s no wonder they’re trying to force the forward issue with Grundy. They know BB and Tmac are cooked and we need another big body to force a contest, but Grundy will never have the forward smarts or leading patterns of Ben Brown.

Go back and watch some of the goals yesterday. The space we were able to find inside 50, was often because Ben Brown was leading higher up to pull his defender and open the space behind him for the likes of Kosi and Chandler, who could never take a mark with a big pack around them (and rightly so, they’re smalls).

He still, bung knee and all, commands respect in the contest. 

Do I think he is just about done? Yes I do. 
Do I think anyone has the right to call him soft? I think you and I both know the answer to that. 

A man who has kicked over 300 AFL goals and was an integral part of a premiership winning forwardline, is not, never has, and will never be soft. 
 

And on a side note, he is also a magnificent human off the field who gives a lot of his time to worthy causes. He deserves more respect than he’s currently being shown by a few keyboard heroes. 

Yes agree, the personal jabs was unnecessary. He's a premiership hero in my eyes so he's got enough respect for me.

I'll be honest and I think I could upset a few here, but I'm starting to think even his own teammates don't trust him on field. Unfortunately, this is a real thing in footy clubs.

His body is slowly letting him down and when you're getting beaten easily one on ones then that starts to play on your mind as a teammate so then find yourself assessing other options. I saw this last week and yesterday as well. It was glaring to say.

There's been moments where he's lead into space and they've totally ignored him by either going the difficult option or just playing the percentage. 

Goodwins comments post game pretty much confirms that he wasn't overly impressed with Browns game and I think we'll see him getting dropped.

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:25, Jaded No More said:

I’m all for Petty going forward. I’ve said that over and over again. Clearly Goodwin and co want him down back. 

Brown is playing for lack of options. It’s no wonder they’re trying to force the forward issue with Grundy. They know BB and Tmac are cooked and we need another big body to force a contest, but Grundy will never have the forward smarts or leading patterns of Ben Brown.

Go back and watch some of the goals yesterday. The space we were able to find inside 50, was often because Ben Brown was leading higher up to pull his defender and open the space behind him for the likes of Kosi and Chandler, who could never take a mark with a big pack around them (and rightly so, they’re smalls).

He still, bung knee and all, commands respect in the contest. 

Do I think he is just about done? Yes I do. 
Do I think anyone has the right to call him soft? I think you and I both know the answer to that. 

A man who has kicked over 300 AFL goals and was an integral part of a premiership winning forwardline, is not, never has, and will never be soft. 
 

And on a side note, he is also a magnificent human off the field who gives a lot of his time to worthy causes. He deserves more respect than he’s currently being shown by a few keyboard heroes. 

What are your thoughts on trying Tomlinson forward when Petty gets back? He’s a great kick, and good one on one?

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:39, Tracca said:

What are your thoughts on trying Tomlinson forward when Petty gets back? He’s a great kick, and good one on one?

I think it’s far too late in the season to be making those types of moves. It’s a very Hail Mary desperate scenario if you’re throwing a guy who hasn’t played forward in 10 years up forward 5 weeks out from finals.
 

The FD clearly don’t like Tomlinson, and I can’t figure out why. He comes in and plays well then inevitably gets dropped when the first choice defender is fit to play again. It’s pretty rough on him, and I can completely understand why he’s looking elsewhere.
 

I think Tomlinson’s biggest issue tho is his pace, which is why he would struggle as a forward and it’s why BB is struggling to impact as much as we’d like him to. He was a really dangerous forward when he was on the lead. But he doesn’t have any power to accelerate anymore off the mark which is a shame, because it makes him easier to defend. 

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:11, Nasher said:

I think it’s okay not to rate Brown or think he’s going any good. I think it’s pretty clear to everyone he’s not moving as well as he used to. I have him as an out in the pregame thread.

It’s when you start being all keyboard warrior about it that people will rightfully start jumping down your throat. As a career AFL full forward, Ben Brown would have been scragged, scruffed, punched in the guts, arms and head (half the time on purpose) more than most of the rest of us put together. Soft. Please.

Anyway I would have hoped our premiership full forward would have earned a bit more respect from Melbourne fans than that.

Look you are right. Apologies I do get frustrated and heated when I talk about bbb. I don’t rate him and don’t think he should be playing. It isn’t his fault he’s getting on and his knee is buggered. Apologies to all I offended

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:45, Jaded No More said:

I think it’s far too late in the season to be making those types of moves. It’s a very Hail Mary desperate scenario if you’re throwing a guy who hasn’t played forward in 10 years up forward 5 weeks out from finals.
 

The FD clearly don’t like Tomlinson, and I can’t figure out why. He comes in and plays well then inevitably gets dropped when the first choice defender is fit to play again. It’s pretty rough on him, and I can completely understand why he’s looking elsewhere.
 

I think Tomlinson’s biggest issue tho is his pace, which is why he would struggle as a forward and it’s why BB is struggling to impact as much as we’d like him to. He was a really dangerous forward when he was on the lead. But he doesn’t have any power to accelerate anymore off the mark which is a shame, because it makes him easier to defend. 

Yeah I am not a huge fan of Tomlinson myself when petty is fit but he’s clearly afl standard and wish we gave him a go at a fwd spot. It’s sad we haven’t given him an opportunity there

  On 24/07/2023 at 04:50, Deestar9 said:

Geelong has to play at optimal level from now until wherever they end up …finals as well if they make it. With their age demographic..can’t see it. Def haven’t had the luxury of resting players his season ..,

And a friendly draw on the run home like they always seem to have.....

  On 23/07/2023 at 22:04, IRW said:

Why do you think the win the close ones?

Some clown on here said MFC must be hard to coach against!

Of the notional contenders they are far and away the easiest to play against;opposition teams go in knowing that they are always a chance because MFC rarely play 4 quarters at their best ( as good as it is) and are vulnerable to being ground down by failing to capitalise on the leads the establish

 

Yet here we are, two games clear inside the Top 4…

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:29, JimmyGadson said:

Oliver is top in the comp for winning the ball at the contest. No question. 

But we have a number of players who excel in that area. So the talk of us missing him is over-hyped and our results both with and without him say as much. 

Our problems have nothing to do with him being in or out of our side and there's an argument that suggests we are a more effective and balanced side in his absence as well as being more unpredictable. 

Oliver's loss is not like losing May at his best or Gawn.

Let's not think it is. 

 

IF you're referring to bulls who go in and extract the footy at the source i beg to differ Jimmy.

Personally feel too much was being left to Viney & Max in this area in the first 4 to 5 weeks post Clarry's abscence.

Gus has started to assist a little in the last few weeks.

Add a few minor cameos from Tracc, JJ & Sparrow which closes the gap a bit more.

In a strange way, Clarry missing may have helped Tracc's game here as i felt he was becoming a little too biased as an outside player earlier in the season.  Appears to have remedied this since and it's paying off.

Clarry's slick extraction work, more so around stoppages, plays a big role in us getting the ball going forward more often and with some speed that gives forwards a few more 1 v 1 looks.

Him coming back also frees up Tracc for more regular forward minutes which has to be a win.

The difference he should make when he returns, assuming he gets back to somewhere near his best, will be pretty substantial.

I think we have a new troll

  On 24/07/2023 at 10:29, JimmyGadson said:

Oliver is top in the comp for winning the ball at the contest. No question. 

But we have a number of players who excel in that area. So the talk of us missing him is over-hyped and our results both with and without him say as much. 

Our problems have nothing to do with him being in or out of our side and there's an argument that suggests we are a more effective and balanced side in his absence as well as being more unpredictable. 

Oliver's loss is not like losing May at his best or Gawn.

Let's not think it is. 

 

Oliver has one thing over those other mids. He has great bursting speed and he can pick the ball up off the ground at top speed. It’s why we looked so good with Kosi in the middle on Sunday. Kosi can also pick the ball up at speed and burst through. He’s no Clarry tho because he doesn’t do it 30+ times a game. 
 

I think you are completely underestimating what an impact losing Oliver has had. For one it allows teams to put more time into defending the stoppage, it’s why we’ve reverted to having an extra mid at stoppages, which has seen our forward half pressure drop off as a result. 

Secondly he’s the best clearance player in the game, so we’ve dropped right back in our clearance numbers, where as we usually sit comfortably in the top 2-3 in the competition. That impacts how we play and how much harder we have to defend. 
It also meant we couldn’t play Trac forward as much as we would have liked, when we desperately needed a forward spark.

You cannot tell me that Clarry playing against GWS isn’t worth more than the 2 points we lost by. Or that Geelong dominates clearances in the last quarter like they did, if Clarry is playing. 
 

Any side that misses their best player for 3 months is going to be impacted by it. Maybe May is a bigger loss because we don’t have as many good tall defenders as we do inside mids, in terms of balance to the side, but you can never replace star power like Clarry. To say we are a better side without him is laughable. He’s a 2 time coaches award winner, a 4 time B&F winner and a 3 time AA. At 25. He is a freak. 

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

  On 24/07/2023 at 11:23, Jaded No More said:

Oliver has one thing over those other mids. He has great bursting speed and he can pick the ball up off the ground at top speed. It’s why we looked so good with Kosi in the middle on Sunday. Kosi can also pick the ball up at speed and burst through. He’s no Clarry tho because he doesn’t do it 30+ times a game. 
 

I think you are completely underestimating what an impact losing Oliver has had. For one it allows teams to put more time into defending the stoppage, it’s why we’ve reverted to having an extra mid at stoppages, which has seen our forward half pressure drop off as a result. 

Secondly he’s the best clearance player in the game, so we’ve dropped right back in our clearance numbers, where as we usually sit comfortably in the top 2-3 in the competition. That impacts how we play and how much harder we have to defend. 
It also meant we couldn’t play Trac forward as much as we would have liked, when we desperately needed a forward spark.

You cannot tell me that Clarry playing against GWS isn’t worth more than the 2 points we lost by. Or that Geelong dominates clearances in the last quarter like they did, if Clarry is playing. 
 

Any side that misses their best player for 3 months is going to be impacted by it. Maybe May is a bigger loss because we don’t have as many good tall defenders as we do inside mids, in terms of balance to the side, but you can never replace star power like Clarry. He is a generational player and when he returns you’ll be like “oh damn I remember how good this guy makes us”. 

 

  On 24/07/2023 at 11:11, Demon Dynasty said:

IF you're referring to bulls who go in and extract the footy at the source i beg to differ Jimmy.

Personally feel too much was being left to Viney & Max in this area in the first 4 to 5 weeks post Clarry's abscence.

Gus has started to assist a little in the last few weeks.

Add a few minor cameos from Tracc, JJ & Sparrow which closes the gap a bit more.

In a strange way, Clarry missing may have helped Tracc's game here as i felt he was becoming a little too biased as an outside player earlier in the season.  Appears to have remedied this since and it's paying off.

Clarry's slick extraction work, more so around stoppages, plays a big role in us getting the ball going forward more often and with some speed that gives forwards a few more 1 v 1 looks.

Him coming back also frees up Tracc for more regular forward minutes which has to be a win.

The difference he should make when he returns, assuming he gets back to somewhere near his best, will be pretty substantial.

🤞🤞he’s back in the next 2-3 weeks. Hope he’s not pushing himself too hard 

BBB will always be a demon premiership hero.

With his knees, it does not appear possible for him to jump.  This means he is limited to standing or running at incoming balls.  Standing still means he will get crashed into and others will easily jump over the top of him, therefore his only way to play is to mark on the run, in a straight line to boot.  If we could deliver in a way that allows him to get a break on his opponent and have enough clear air to mark, he would offer some value.  However, a lack of lateral or vertical movement will see him limited.

I have no problem with his effort, but he will be easy to defend against given the limited ways he can play now.  I would think he no longer needs the best defender, but rather third best - just keep a body on him and stop him running.

Is schache good enough ?? MJ is not near it yet.  Petty?  JVR needs a foil.  If the Gawndy experiment doesnt work, we will have to rely on BBB to put his best efforts, and whatever that brings.  j SMith has yet to be valuable fo r more than a half of football, so makes a good sub.