PREGAME: Rd 09 vs Hawthorn

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

6 hours ago, Redleg said:

Very annoying.

I would have him in ahead of Spargo. He is far more versatile.

But you are probably correct.

If we keep dropping him, he will leave and I believe we will regret it.

I would too based on form. I like have the extra midfielder rolling in there instead of having 4 small forwards.

Unfortunately this comes with territory when you are constantly challenging for a flag. You'll always get those borderline best 22 that'll eventually get squeezed out.

Edited May 11, 2023 by dazzledavey36

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Spargo is critical to our ability to move the ball inside 50. I know people don’t rate him that highly. He’s in the low possession high impact category, but he isn’t a spectacular player like Kosi so people aren’t enamored with him.  But he is one of the best players at two way running and delivering the ball inside 50 that we have. He also allows Kosi to spend more time in the middle which I love. 

I think we all feel JJ is hard down by. I am too. But then I think who goes if he stays, and I can’t come up with an obvious answer. Sparrow is a more dynamic player and he is a battering ram which allows Viney to have a rest. I also thought he was better against GC than JJ. 

JJ does everything well but nothing spectacular and maybe that’s the problem. In a top team with a midfield full of spectacular footballers, you’ll always have players hard done by. Where else would Dunstan get 40+ touches a week at Casey and then not get a game? It’s frankly ludicrous. I feel for him too as his career doesn’t have the prospects that JJ’s career does. I know JJ will go elsewhere and play 200 games. It’s almost a no brainer.
 

On a side note, I hope we sign Chandler up soon. The last of my must signs for this year. 

[Sydee 4,529]

46 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Spargo is critical to our ability to move the ball inside 50. I know people don’t rate him that highly. He’s in the low possession high impact category, but he isn’t a spectacular player like Kosi so people aren’t enamored with him.  But he is one of the best players at two way running and delivering the ball inside 50 that we have. He also allows Kosi to spend more time in the middle which I love. 

I think we all feel JJ is hard down by. I am too. But then I think who goes if he stays, and I can’t come up with an obvious answer. Sparrow is a more dynamic player and he is a battering ram which allows Viney to have a rest. I also thought he was better against GC than JJ. 

JJ does everything well but nothing spectacular and maybe that’s the problem. In a top team with a midfield full of spectacular footballers, you’ll always have players hard done by. Where else would Dunstan get 40+ touches a week at Casey and then not get a game? It’s frankly ludicrous. I feel for him too as his career doesn’t have the prospects that JJ’s career does. I know JJ will go elsewhere and play 200 games. It’s almost a no brainer.
 

On a side note, I hope we sign Chandler up soon. The last of my must signs for this year. 

For me JJ's best chance is to somehow push Hunter out and play wing - I'm not being critical of Hunter but if I'm JJ that's the spot I'd be looking to take 

 

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

Always thought JJ would make a fine tagger especially on a half forward/midfield where he is able to shut down the games best quarter back. I think of Nick Daicos for this instance.

He's incredibly disciplined and ultimate professional when it comes to doing the team things.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

5 minutes ago, Sydee said:

For me JJ's best chance is to somehow push Hunter out and play wing - I'm not being critical of Hunter but if I'm JJ that's the spot I'd be looking to take 

 

JJ already played that role for the majority of last season. And then we went and got Hunter. So that’s a slap in the face to him. 
I think Hunter is very underrated around here. Not only is he a very experienced player who is very smart, his ball use is generally really good. He also has a massive tank and has given Langdon the opportunity to take much needed breaks during games. That will pay off heavily come finals. 
I think long term JJ could take that role, but at 23 he wants to play now and he deserves to. Hunter has 4+ seasons left in him. JJ isn’t waiting around for that. 
The other problem of course is that I think JJ could make a fine half back flanker, but that position is so heavily filled already and that’s without Salem even playing yet. 
 

JJ is the perfect 23rd  player to have because he is actually a really good footballer who can play a number roles and execute them well. But he has every right to want to be a best 22 player and there are about 10 sides I reckon he would walk into and never miss a game. 

[Jaded No More 68,974]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Always thought JJ would make a fine tagger especially on a half forward/midfield where he is able to shut down the games best quarter back. I think of Nick Daicos for this instance.

He's incredibly disciplined and ultimate professional when it comes to doing the team things.

I agree. But then who does he replace in the lineup?

And don’t say Sparrow because we both know that won’t happen. 

[layzie 34,014]

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

JJ already played that role for the majority of last season. And then we went and got Hunter. So that’s a slap in the face to him. 
I think Hunter is very underrated around here. Not only is he a very experienced player who is very smart, his ball use is generally really good. He also has a massive tank and has given Langdon the opportunity to take much needed breaks during games. That will pay off heavily come finals. 
I think long term JJ could take that role, but at 23 he wants to play now and he deserves to. Hunter has 4+ seasons left in him. JJ isn’t waiting around for that. 
The other problem of course is that I think JJ could make a fine half back flanker, but that position is so heavily filled already and that’s without Salem even playing yet. 
 

JJ is the perfect 23rd  player to have because he is actually a really good footballer who can play a number roles and execute them well. But he has every right to want to be a best 22 player and there are about 10 sides I reckon he would walk into and never miss a game. 

When I see Hunter at the games the territory he covers is really something to behold. I'm never fussed about him getting mountains of possessions, his movements off the ball and ability to fold back has been a major asset. 

[leave it to deever 17,518]

Jvr will come out and play a ripper.

It's great that the club stood by him. I also wonder with seemingly small acts like this, if players take note and are more likely to stay at the club( Chandler).

Perhaps Kozzie was pleased with the way the club supported him after his incident.  Yea they didn't appeal but Goodwin was most gracious in what he said about it all.

And speaking of Kozzie, I think we all feel hes due to kick a big bag of goals soon. This is probably the game for it.

And maybe Petty will show some great forward talent.

Feel so much more confident after the appeal.

[layzie 34,014]

It is the kind of game I would have liked to see JJ in. On one hand Spargo's ability to deliver into the 50 is a huge benefit but I wouldn't mind that extra mid rotation. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,882]

Now that we've freed JVR, my attention it solely on how I want us to absolutely poluvarise the Hawks.  Let's face it, we owe these [censored] (insert adjective of choice) more than any other team in the AFL. 

I'd love to see us totally click in a way we didn't quite against North and smash them by 150+ points.

That's not too much to ask is it?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,882]

All the talk is about JJ missing, but I think Haremsy is easily to the same or higher standard and he's another that's missing.

Assuming we don't get more injuries and he's able to find form, there could be another selection squeeze with Salem getting close to playing again for Casey.  This depth of tallent is generally a good problem to have.

[leave it to deever 17,518]

48 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Now that we've freed JVR, my attention it solely on how I want us to absolutely poluvarise the Hawks.  Let's face it, we owe these [censored] (insert adjective of choice) more than any other team in the AFL. 

I'd love to see us totally click in a way we didn't quite against North and smash them by 150+ points.

That's not too much to ask is it?

I think after Jvrgate and with May playing his 200th there will be a strong esprit de corps . As such I too am expecting a big win and statement from the team. 

[Sydee 4,529]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

JJ already played that role for the majority of last season. And then we went and got Hunter. So that’s a slap in the face to him. 
I think Hunter is very underrated around here. Not only is he a very experienced player who is very smart, his ball use is generally really good. He also has a massive tank and has given Langdon the opportunity to take much needed breaks during games. That will pay off heavily come finals. 
I think long term JJ could take that role, but at 23 he wants to play now and he deserves to. Hunter has 4+ seasons left in him. JJ isn’t waiting around for that. 
The other problem of course is that I think JJ could make a fine half back flanker, but that position is so heavily filled already and that’s without Salem even playing yet. 
 

JJ is the perfect 23rd  player to have because he is actually a really good footballer who can play a number roles and execute them well. But he has every right to want to be a best 22 player and there are about 10 sides I reckon he would walk into and never miss a game. 

Fair enough - I was not criticising Hunter simply saying which position I would target if I was JJ - which I'm not

As you correctly highlight other positions on the field are a low probability for him to get a regular spot in the absence of injuries

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

12 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

With the Rooey verdict, I can see an AFL backlash against us and expect a horrid run from the umpires this week as reprisal. If it was anyone but Hawthorn (or WCE) this week, I would be backing against us. Also expect some piddling negative stories in the media coming up. 

Yes, I don't trust the AFL HQ.

"Viva la Roo!!"

If anyone out there is looking for a topic for their PhD in Psychology, I can recommend "AFL supporter paranoia". Plenty of material to work with.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

What are we watching for this weekend.

For me it's the interaction between the forward talls and the smalls plus May's mobility.

I'm not despairing of our forward line as yet. Fritsch should have had 3 goals last week which would have made it a comfortable win but there's definitely room for improvement as a unit

[Redleg 41,473]

6 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

What are we watching for this weekend.

For me it's the interaction between the forward talls and the smalls plus May's mobility.

I'm not despairing of our forward line as yet. Fritsch should have had 3 goals last week which would have made it a comfortable win but there's definitely room for improvement as a unit

I'm watching to see if there is a kick out from a point that goes to the right, or to a free Demon not in the back pocket.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I'm watching to see if there is a kick out from a point that goes to the right, or to a free Demon not in the back pocket.

you're dreaming ........... miracles never happen

We suffer from CAS (Corridor Aversion Syndrome)

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Spargo is critical to our ability to move the ball inside 50. I know people don’t rate him that highly. He’s in the low possession high impact category, but he isn’t a spectacular player like Kosi so people aren’t enamored with him.  But he is one of the best players at two way running and delivering the ball inside 50 that we have. He also allows Kosi to spend more time in the middle which I love. 

I think we all feel JJ is hard down by. I am too. But then I think who goes if he stays, and I can’t come up with an obvious answer. Sparrow is a more dynamic player and he is a battering ram which allows Viney to have a rest. I also thought he was better against GC than JJ. 

JJ does everything well but nothing spectacular and maybe that’s the problem. In a top team with a midfield full of spectacular footballers, you’ll always have players hard done by. Where else would Dunstan get 40+ touches a week at Casey and then not get a game? It’s frankly ludicrous. I feel for him too as his career doesn’t have the prospects that JJ’s career does. I know JJ will go elsewhere and play 200 games. It’s almost a no brainer.
 

On a side note, I hope we sign Chandler up soon. The last of my must signs for this year. 

Excellent analysis Jaded. I totally agree with you re Spargo, and I was surprised he didn't play for Melbourne last week (but he will be better given the Casey game). I think he's crucial to our structure and his skills are elite. The issue seems to be with ground ball gets with Melbourne currently and given the positive Inside 50s against GC it would have been great to have him up forward improving delivery and conversion.

JJ parked discussions regarding a new contract til later in the year which I can totally understand given his fringe ststus in the team. It will be interesting to see whether it's JJ or Harmes playing as sub in on Saturday. Harmes was good last week I thought when he came on but I actually would have liked him to play the whole game locking down Noah Anderson. That mid lockdown role is someting he excels at although I know Melbourne generally doesn't like going down that path because it affects structure/rotations. Having said that, I think we should be prioritising JJ ahead of Harmes. Harmes is a UFA in 2024 and turns 28 in October. IMO we should be trying to trade him this year as  another club would probably be prepared to offer him 3 years and a guaranteed spot in their best 22.

I also agree we need to sign Chandler, also Woewodin who is definitely much-improved.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

you're dreaming ........... miracles never happen

We suffer from CAS (Corridor Aversion Syndrome)

Why aren’t the good doctors at the club medicating this??? 😜

[leave it to deever 17,518]

23 minutes ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Excellent analysis Jaded. I totally agree with you re Spargo, and I was surprised he didn't play for Melbourne last week (but he will be better given the Casey game). I think he's crucial to our structure and his skills are elite. The issue seems to be with ground ball gets with Melbourne currently and given the positive Inside 50s against GC it would have been great to have him up forward improving delivery and conversion.

JJ parked discussions regarding a new contract til later in the year which I can totally understand given his fringe ststus in the team. It will be interesting to see whether it's JJ or Harmes playing as sub in on Saturday. Harmes was good last week I thought when he came on but I actually would have liked him to play the whole game locking down Noah Anderson. That mid lockdown role is someting he excels at although I know Melbourne generally doesn't like going down that path because it affects structure/rotations. Having said that, I think we should be prioritising JJ ahead of Harmes. Harmes is a UFA in 2024 and turns 28 in October. IMO we should be trying to trade him this year as  another club would probably be prepared to offer him 3 years and a guaranteed spot in their best 22.

I also agree we need to sign Chandler, also Woewodin who is definitely much-improved.

I thought Woey was a lock but now I'm thinking didn't his dad play for cwood as well?

Chandler for sure. He has been a really good surprise for us. His goal sense in the praccy games was terrible but now I don't think he can miss them.

As for Spargo, if you were a real stats person you could argue he's not best 22. But if you watch him closely you notice how much running he does and its very rare his disposals are turned over. Also seems to pop up so many times and kick a much needed goal.

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

4 hours ago, Sydee said:

For me JJ's best chance is to somehow push Hunter out and play wing - I'm not being critical of Hunter but if I'm JJ that's the spot I'd be looking to take 

The Club brought in Hunter to play wing so I think JJ would have got the message at that stage fairly loud & clear. Why would JJ be targetting a position he already had but lost to a specialist who has been a great success?

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Jvr will come out and play a ripper.

It's great that the club stood by him. I also wonder with seemingly small acts like this, if players take note and are more likely to stay at the club( Chandler).

Perhaps Kozzie was pleased with the way the club supported him after his incident.  Yea they didn't appeal but Goodwin was most gracious in what he said about it all.

And speaking of Kozzie, I think we all feel hes due to kick a big bag of goals soon. This is probably the game for it.

And maybe Petty will show some great forward talent.

Feel so much more confident after the appeal.

It's interesting how this has played out. I reckon there was a chance JVR would have been rested this week but because of the suspension/appeals Goody has actually talked him and his position in the side up. Obviously you can't appeal successfully and then rest him from the team. If JVR doesn't have a great game then I don't think it matters ahainst Hawthorn but a different story in a week's time against Port. Re Chandler, clearly being picked and perservered with has worked. If he gets offered a decent contract extension and continues to get picked he has every incentive to stay. The same applies for JJ. I also agree with you about Kozzie. He was lucky to only get 2 weeks and the Club's messaging including not appealing was appropriate and again has worked given he's signed on til the end of 2027. There's been a huge number of naysayers about Petty's move forwards. Goody has been a bit non-committal about this to date but, now that he's actually talking up Petty's performances, hopefully it will lead to positive outcomes. If it doesn't then we still have time to change the mix!

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

I thought Woey was a lock but now I'm thinking didn't his dad play for cwood as well?

It was disgusting the way that Melbourne behaved towards Shane Woewodin.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/08/08/how-brownlow-medallists-shock-trade-to-collingwood-unfolded/

It's to Woewodin's credit that he's remained loyal to the Club, raised his son as a Melbourne supporter, and I'm optimistic that Taj will get a contract extension and be an important contributor to the Club over many years.

[loges 6,767]

Just flown down from NSW for the game, sure to be better than my other one so far against Brisbane 

[leave it to deever 17,518]

6 minutes ago, Sydney_Demon said:

The Club brought in Hunter to play wing so I think JJ would have got the message at that stage fairly loud & clear. Why would JJ be targetting a position he already had but lost to a specialist who has been a great success?

It's interesting how this has played out. I reckon there was a chance JVR would have been rested this week but because of the suspension/appeals Goody has actually talked him and his position in the side up. Obviously you can't appeal successfully and then rest him from the team. If JVR doesn't have a great game then I don't think it matters ahainst Hawthorn but a different story in a week's time against Port. Re Chandler, clearly being picked and perservered with has worked. If he gets offered a decent contract extension and continues to get picked he has every incentive to stay. The same applies for JJ. I also agree with you about Kozzie. He was lucky to only get 2 weeks and the Club's messaging including not appealing was appropriate and again has worked given he's signed on til the end of 2027. There's been a huge number of naysayers about Petty's move forwards. Goody has been a bit non-committal about this to date but, now that he's actually talking up Petty's performances, hopefully it will lead to positive outcomes. If it doesn't then we still have time to change the mix!

It was disgusting the way that Melbourne behaved towards Shane Woewodin.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/08/08/how-brownlow-medallists-shock-trade-to-collingwood-unfolded/

It's to Woewodin's credit that he's remained loyal to the Club, raised his son as a Melbourne supporter, and I'm optimistic that Taj will get a contract extension and be an important contributor to the Club over many years.

Thanks for that article.  It was pretty shocking especially after he took a pay cut. Pretty two faced effort. 

[beelzebub 23,383]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I'm watching to see if there is a kick out from a point that goes to the right, or to a free Demon not in the back pocket.

I cant for the life of me understand why we don't emulate what we did at times in the preseason.. 

I.e had option both sides that worried opposition enough to leave glaring holes in the corridor.   

Noooooooo.... lets go back to kicking it out left..   every single fn time. Insanity.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

I haven't bought a ticket for public reserve for ages.. fell off my chair when i saw the prices! $80 for Level 2. $55 for nosebleed.

Out-of-control.