POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Essendon

[layzie 33,793]

7 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

100% Dazzle.  The Toiges may not have a very full list and bit of an ageing one but they'll always be at the contest giving it eveything and they still have the experience to get a job done on a good day.

We also arent the same team unless all of Max, May & Lever are in.

Any one (or more) of those missing and we look gettable.

The Cats were considered over the hill by many as well and while still a VG team, they probably wouldn't actually get the silver for a while.

I was pretty much in that camp after 2021 although i still had an open mind that in any sport, anything's possible and to never / ever underestimate an opponent. Do so at your peril.

A mere 5% off or so at this level (in a team sense) you are a chance to lose to most teams imv unless they're also having an off day.

Same here. Two team sport, anything is possible and don't be arrogant. 

It's why I never go into games like the West Coast one hoping for a certain margin, playing with fire. 

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

On 4/16/2023 at 5:53 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

It's obvious your Collingwood friend barely watches the dees otherwise he would have known that Harmes has been in incredibly poor form this year and 2nd half of last year. If he's not tagging then he doesn't add anything further to the team.

That's an odd assumption to make. This guy watches about 7 games a weekend and regularly watches the dees because "were one of the most fun to watch".  I brought up his comment because he isn't emotionally invested in the team like we are. 

 

One of Jordon or Harmes needs to be in the side, their defensive efforts are needed. Like you, I also prefer Jordon. 

[layzie 33,793]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:43 AM, demon3165 said:

Whilst I agree with you in general and the backline did not have a good day but when the pill comes in that many times, any backline will be in trouble, it's just a matter of when.

Grundy was up against it and throwing JVR is not the move to but thats the cards you are dealt with.

The pill did come into our 50 a lot yes, but the majority of their entries were long high balls I would have expected to cut off time and time again. Our mids were down but our backs had a shocker too. 

[layzie 33,793]

22 hours ago, Rocknroll said:

2 more games for Jake m, then put him out to pasture. 100 in red and blue.  He is not the future. Good for a cameo but that's about it.  

I just want these two games to happen because I'm so sick of hearing about it. I still think he can play a depth role but I am sick to death of hearing theories about the club trying to get him to 100 games in red and blue. It's been a while since I've repeatedly read so much claptrap around these parts. 

The notion that we are gifting a guy games to get to 100 on the off chance that his offspring may be eligible (providing they choose to play footy) to draft in 15 years time and to do this over someone like a James Jordon is just absurd and something thought up in the land of never never. 

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

9 minutes ago, layzie said:

I just want these two games to happen because I'm so sick of hearing about it. I still think he can play a depth role but I am sick to death of hearing theories about the club trying to get him to 100 games in red and blue. It's been a while since I've repeatedly read so much claptrap around these parts. 

The notion that we are gifting a guy games to get to 100 on the off chance that his offspring may be eligible (providing they choose to play footy) to draft in 15 years time and to do this over someone like a James Jordon is just absurd and something thought up in the land of never never. 

Essendon literally did it with Alwyn Davey when Simon Goodwin was caretaker coach. - https://www.afl.com.au/news/870487/dons-double-davey-delight-a-plan-10-years-in-the-making

All clubs do do it, We did it recently with Nathan Jones in 2021,  He played the first 6 games, they got him to 300 then he was sub the next game and then only came in to be an unused sub in round 15.

Melksham has kids and we will want the rights to them, that's apart of the footy business. 

 

[layzie 33,793]

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Edited April 17, 2023 by layzie

[layzie 33,793]

50 minutes ago, FritschyBusiness said:

Essendon literally did it with Alwyn Davey when Simon Goodwin was caretaker coach. - https://www.afl.com.au/news/870487/dons-double-davey-delight-a-plan-10-years-in-the-making

All clubs do do it, We did it recently with Nathan Jones in 2021,  He played the first 6 games, they got him to 300 then he was sub the next game and then only came in to be an unused sub in round 15.

Melksham has kids and we will want the rights to them, that's apart of the footy business. 

 

Alwyn Davey Snr was 29 when he finished in the AFL. He was having a good season until he got injured, was stranded on 96 and then the decision to get him to 100 became a lot easier when Essendon were booted from the finals because of the drugs saga and the last month meant nothing. He was also delisted in a decision that could have gone either way at the end of that season, easily could have continued his career at another club but decided to go to NT to play so he wasn't exactly an old geezer being wheeled across the finish line.

Nathan Jones was an experienced head playing a role across half back which was working pretty well for the first 5 games of the season, while we may have helped him get there he was far from gifted his 300th. The emergence of Bowey and other youngsters kept him out of the team but you can bet your bottom dollar Chunk was doing everything to get back in there. 

When we look at the gameday threads and everyone scrutinises every selection to within an inch of it's life right down to the sub, the idea that a selector looks at a James Jordon and a Jake Melksham when making a selection choice and thinks to themself "Gotta play the old pro and plan ahead for 2039, JT will thank me" in a season where we are contending for a flag is absolutely nuts.

Selection is made on winning the game of football, extra things like this are just gravy. Do they want it to happen? Sure, it helps the culture and is a 'nice to have'. I agree it's in their secondary interests to get him there if possible but compromising weekly selection based on a guy that half the people here don't think can play anymore and is only in there because of a remote future event? No chance.

It's not part of the footy business to cut off your nose to spite your face. Maybe in a weak team playing for less but not when every selection is vital. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by layzie

[FritschyBusiness 1,478]

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

Alwyn Davey Snr was 29 when he finished in the AFL. He was having a good season until he got injured, was stranded on 96 and then the decision to get him to 100 became a lot easier when Essendon were booted from the finals because of the drugs saga and the last month meant nothing. He was also delisted in a decision that could have gone either way at the end of that season, easily could have continued his career at another club but decided to go to NT to play so he wasn't exactly an old geezer being wheeled across the finish line.

Nathan Jones was an experienced head playing a role across half back which was working pretty well for the first 5 games of the season, while we may have helped him get there he was far from gifted his 300th. The emergence of Bowey and other youngsters kept him out of the team but you can bet your bottom dollar Chunk was doing everything to get back in there. 

When we look at the gameday threads and everyone scrutinises every selection to within an inch of it's life right down to the sub, the idea that a selector looks at a James Jordon and a Jake Melksham when making a selection choice and thinks to themself "Gotta play the old pro and plan ahead for 2039, JT will thank me" in a season where we are contending for a flag is absolutely nuts.

Selection is made on winning the game of football, extra things like this are just gravy. Do they want it to happen? Sure, it helps the culture and is a 'nice to have'. I agree it's in their secondary interests to get him there if possible but compromising weekly selection based on a guy that half the people here don't think can play anymore and is only in there because of a remote future event? No chance.

It's not part of the footy business to cut off your nose to spite your face. Maybe in a weak team playing for less but not when every selection is vital. 

The reason why I bring up Alwyn is because you said in your previous post "something thought up in the land of never never. "
I had historical reference of that exact thing happening. I'm also not arguing for or against it happening in this instance. I'm just saying it happens, and has happened at ours and other clubs in the past.

In terms of selection last weekend, Melksham and Jordon are not "fighting" for the same spot.

Goodwin loves his team balance and system. 
Melksham came in when Brown was a late out, a forward for a forward. Jordon was the sub.
If Brown wasn't a late out then Melksham would have been playing at Casey and Jordon would have still been the sub.
 

[Roost it far 8,252]

What happened to Aaron Davey's kids?

[Spargonicus 539]

22 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

The last couple of years i have been use to seeing us dish out almighty fistings, but credit where credit is due we got given a real awakening fisting last night.

What ever the reasoning behind the result, i hope this opens the players eyes to the need of respecting all our opponents we come up against.

We played like a team who had other things on their minds other than football.

An 'awakening fisting' - owwww...

[layzie 33,793]

2 hours ago, FritschyBusiness said:

The reason why I bring up Alwyn is because you said in your previous post "something thought up in the land of never never. "
I had historical reference of that exact thing happening. I'm also not arguing for or against it happening in this instance. I'm just saying it happens, and has happened at ours and other clubs in the past.

In terms of selection last weekend, Melksham and Jordon are not "fighting" for the same spot.

Goodwin loves his team balance and system. 
Melksham came in when Brown was a late out, a forward for a forward. Jordon was the sub.
If Brown wasn't a late out then Melksham would have been playing at Casey and Jordon would have still been the sub.
 

Yeah maybe the never never was bit was excessive.

I don't like hearing comments that player x is only getting games because of some loophole and otherwise offers nothing. While I don't believe milestones are ever a non-factor and can be important, I think people tend to buy into the hyperbole that a club needs to try and get a certain player to a milestone as if they are carrying dead weight across a finish line. 

The thing about Jordon and Melksham not fighting for the same spot is another thing altogether and actually enhancing my point that players are selected on merit and not potential future loopholes. Still have to earn your spot. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by layzie

[Lucifers Hero 39,732]

Something to remember about both the Lions and Ess games is that half way through the last quarter we were nearly 7 goals down in both games.

We whitled that down to 2 goals vs Lions and 4 goals vs Ess by the end. 

Folks could say the opp relaxed etc  Sure, but we were good enough and energised enough to take advantage of any lapse just as they exploited our weakness.

That we were able to fight back and gain momentum is a big positive out of both losses.  The losses shouldn't lead to worsening MFCSS.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

14 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Something to remember about both the Lions and Ess games is that half way through the last quarter we were nearly 7 goals down in both games.

We whitled that down to 2 goals vs Lions and 4 goals vs Ess by the end. 

Folks could say the opp relaxed etc  Sure, but we were good enough and energised enough to take advantage of any lapse just as they exploited our weakness.

That we were able to fight back and gain momentum is a big positive out of both losses.  The losses shouldn't lead worsening MFCSS.

LH if you go back over past results for  many decades, any team that ends up down 3 goals or more, even very early in a match (1st quarter), the odds say you are most likely going to lose the vast majority of those matches.

5 goals in the first and the odds become alot worse.

7 goals at any stage of most matches, but especially post the first quarter, is pretty much game over.

That's not to say amazing come backs don't happen.  See our final round vs the Cats in 2021.  But the chances are super slim.

I would suspect most AFL coaches and  crew worth their salt would be well aware of this with alarm bells ringing once an oppo gets up 3 goals or more early on.  Some minor adjustments happening as a result.

7 goals down they would (in most cases) be throwing options B & C out the door and hitting the "throw caution to the wind" (all out attack) option to give the boys any chance of coming back (in most cases).

Possibly something similar happened late in the Brissy match.

[Lucifers Hero 39,732]

1 minute ago, Demon Dynasty said:

LH if you go back over past results for  many decades, any team that ends up down 3 goals or more, even very early in a match (1st quarter), the odds say you are most likely going to lose the vast majority of those matches.

5 goals in the first and the odds become alot worse.

7 goals at any stage of most matches, but especially post the first quarter, is pretty much game over.

That's not to say amazing come backs don't happen.  See our final round vs the Cats in 2021.  But the chances are super slim.

I would suspect most AFL coaches and  crew worth their salt would be well aware of this with alarm bells ringing once an oppo gets up 3 goals or more early on.  Some minor adjustments happening as a result.

7 goals down they would (in most cases) be throwing options B & C out the door and hitting the "throw caution to the wind" (all out attack) option to give the boys any chance of coming back (in most cases).

Possibly something similar happened late in the Brissy match.

I wasn't suggesting we could have won either match.

Whatever the reason for our comeback, we fought back.  We fought it out to the end.  I find that a real positive to come from the losses and a reason to not get to negative about our players and game plan going forward.

[layzie 33,793]

53 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

That we were able to fight back and gain momentum is a big positive out of both losses.  The losses shouldn't lead to worsening MFCSS.

They were able to ensure that we didn't get tonked in two games that we should have been. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,732]

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

They were able to ensure that we didn't get tonked in two games that we should have been. 

I don't share the view we should have been 'tonked'.  The opps weren't good enough to put the foot down.  We are a very good team.  Good teams fight back.  We did.  imv that bodes well. 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

31 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I wasn't suggesting we could have won either match.

Whatever the reason for our comeback, we fought back.  We fought it out to the end.  I find that a real positive to come from the losses and a reason to not get to negative about our players and game plan going forward.

Neither was i LH... that's why those come backs are too little too late (in most cases).

You have to arrest the carnage asap and start turning the tide as early as possible.  An attempt at a come back from say 15 to 20 minutes to go into the last is not addressing the elephant in the room.

Patchwork and honourable losses don't cut it for mine and playing in that manner, even every third game or so, is more than likely masking over ugly issues that lie deep at the heart.

[McQueen 17,864]

Coaches votes are in. 
 

Goody couldn’t even give Oliver a single vote for 41 touches. 

[Nascent 9,212]

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

What happened to Aaron Davey's kids?

Think they're playing under 10s or 11s... fair bit of time to pass there.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

8 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Coaches votes are in. 
 

Goody couldn’t even give Oliver a single vote for 41 touches. 

Unbelievable. Bit of a slap in the face as he tried his guts out in the last qtr to get us close. I guess he probably did the votes based off when the game was won (the first half)

[layzie 33,793]

31 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I don't share the view we should have been 'tonked'.  The opps weren't good enough to put the foot down.  We are a very good team.  Good teams fight back.  We did.  imv that bodes well. 

 

Fair enough LH. Personally I think we should have been at least 5 goals down at half time though. They had 10 scoring shots and finished that quarter 9.10, hard to believe but in my view it could have been a much bigger deficit to reel in and  effort wise I probably wouldn't have argued if it was. The final margin flattered us in my opinion. 

I was happy we were able to not let it get out of control and good teams show that they aren't easily tonked. We did go down fighting somewhat and you can take that out of it. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by layzie

[whatwhat say what 22,735]

4 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Think they're playing under 10s or 11s... fair bit of time to pass there.

i'm expecting weekly updates dagnabbit! where's the 2030 draft thread?!??

[Roost it far 8,252]

20 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Think they're playing under 10s or 11s... fair bit of time to pass there.

Yeh but are they any good? 😂

[Jjrogan 1,420]

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Something to remember about both the Lions and Ess games is that half way through the last quarter we were nearly 7 goals down in both games.

We whitled that down to 2 goals vs Lions and 4 goals vs Ess by the end. 

Folks could say the opp relaxed etc  Sure, but we were good enough and energised enough to take advantage of any lapse just as they exploited our weakness.

That we were able to fight back and gain momentum is a big positive out of both losses.  The losses shouldn't lead to worsening MFCSS.

5 final quarters this year its 

MFC 173

Opposition 76

Ordinarily you could say there will be mean reversion but watching Trac Viney, and Oliver at the end of this game (and Brisbane) they were absolutely flying.   Last week it was Jordan. The midfield is super fit and take a lot of pride in playing until the end.   We will not be outrun in last halves this year.  

Edited April 17, 2023 by Jjrogan

[DeelightfulPlay 2,543]

7 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

5 final quarters this year its 

MFC 173

Opposition 76

Ordinarily you could say there will be mean reversion but watching Trac Viney, and Oliver at the end of this game (and Brisbane) they were absolutely flying.   Last week it was Jordan. The midfield is super fit and take a lot of pride in playing until the end.   We will not be outrun in last halves this year.  

Seems more like we'll be outrun in the first halves this year 😋

But more seriously in the Lions and Bombers games, it's heartening to see the final 15 minutes where players are doing their best... but it's too little, too late.