On 21/09/2022 at 02:20, one_demon said:

Possibly but how can you prove that Clarkson said to get an abortion?

You can't directly but if there's enough evidence to suggest something terrible was going on then plenty of communication via texts and emails could be seized to paint a decent picture. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 01:16, Jibroni said:

So it appears most of the players mentioned have no left. The question has to be asked, if this was widespread, the leadership group and Captain would have been complicit in these types of things?

Leaves Mitchell in an awkward position as well.

Mitchell is the one who will tie this all together. He's cleaning up the culture and come out like a real hero.

I'm waiting for Jeff Kennett's response to these matters

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:27, Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm waiting for Jeff Kennett's response to these matters

Was just thinking the same thing. Better hurry.

I do wonder how Buddy feels about all this. He remains probably the biggest Indigenous name to come out of Hawthorn.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:11, one_demon said:

The people accused will just deny it, so it becomes a case of one word against another.

And a finding would be made on balance of probabilities and the reliability of the accounts which would be assessed by the panel.

There appears to be a sizeable number of accounts already provided as well as those yet to be ascertained, in order to make an informed assessment.

On Hawthorn initiating the investigation, it was commissioned in response to the Cyril revelations earlier in the year. That should have been the end of Kennett then and there, but he’s still quietly transitioning out of the role.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:27, Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm waiting for Jeff Kennett's response to these matters

I think I heard on the radio that is was overseas (NY?) and just referred to a Hawthorn press release when asked about the issue.

This is the most disgusting story that I can recall hearing in the last twenty years; even much worse than injecting young men with unknown drugs    If true, 4 year ban for the leaders and 1 years for those who turned a blind eye. 

Hawthorn should be told to stop their investigation immediately while the AFL and Worksafe immediately interview the vultures at the Hawks before they get their stories straight.  The assailant in an assault case does not sit in on the police investigation.  The conflict of interest is enormous.  Nothing was done for Cyril Rioli excepted a mumbled very-guarded expression of regret without acceptance of significant fault.

 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by redandbluemakepurple

It’s Horrific if true. But it’s slander if unable to be substantiated.

You’d hope that the process went to extreme lengths to verify the facts because this will destroy the legacy of Clarkson and co. 

Jon Ralph

 

@RalphyHeraldSun

· 49m

Understand Brisbane is strongly considering stepping down Chris Fagan until the review findings are back. He has told the Lions he has been blindsided by the allegations. Clearly the review will get to the heart of that https://heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/brisbane/hawthorn-racism-review-lions-considering-chris-fagans-future/news-story/fe009d06fa697898a5ca3ebbd0cb7068

 

aA

 

AFLAFaaf

 

AFL have steped

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Mr Steve

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:39, CYB said:

It’s Horrific if true. But it’s slander if unable to be substantiated.

You’d hope that the process went to extreme lengths to verify the facts because this will destroy the legacy of Clarkson and co. 

Do you really think that anyone, let alone reputable journalists at a reputable publication, would release this stuff without any proof?

And do you really think Hawthorn would launch an investigation into past behaviours themselves, if they didn't suspect bad behaviour? You don't burn your own house down for no reason. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:23, BDA said:

This is very hard to comprehend. You’d have to wonder what this means for the football club in terms of how it recovers. This kind of thing casts doubt over its ongoing survival. What kind of an institution behaves like this? What possible rehabilitation measures can it take to redeem itself or regain confidence that it can be entrusted with the development of young men. I wouldn’t want my children drafted to the Hawks and I’m sure many others wouldn’t either.

Needless to say, Clarkson and Fagan are finished. Not sure about the other coaches at the time but if I was the MFC I’d be asking very hard questions of Yze.

Goes without saying the allegations need to be proved but the sources are impeccable. 

'Needless to say, Clarkson and Fagan are finished.'

I think you may be right. This is a shocker.

 

AFL have stepped in now.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/847490/-incredibly-serious-afl-to-probe-hawks-treatment-of-indigenous-players

  On 21/09/2022 at 01:08, old55 said:

Thanks Binman for articulating how I felt about this. It is hard to process - happening at the same time as the apology to stolen generations, it's truly gobsmackingly horrible stuff.

If it is true I wonder if any white draftees were subjected to the same treatment. I suggest none.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by djr

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:35, sue said:

I think I heard on the radio that is was overseas (NY?) and just referred to a Hawthorn press release when asked about the issue.

I'd be getting on a plane pretty quick if I were him.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:11, dazzledavey36 said:

All we need now is someone to provide a quote from Andrew Bolt in justifying the behaviour and we're set.

Yep, select a fact that can when taken in isolation can be used to distort the truth. This then ends up as being an alternative persuasive point of view or truth.  He is an absolute expert at doing this. Worse still, people believe!

Makes me wonder about Geoff Kennet’s clothing choice comments- when isolated can easily be excused for something you would expect from the older generation, nothing more, nothing less. No offence intended at all.

When taken in context of what this thread is all about, as I said above, makes me wonder. 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Wodjathefirst
Typo

The abortion stuff is indefensible, as is the nature of the ways they went about undermining relationships. And if it was purely for Indigenous players and not the rest then that’s unacceptable too.

Otherwise I imagine the coaches came at it from a point of view that it’s really hard to maintain a successful relationship with someone long distance and do the work needed to have a long afl career. Even more so if you add kids at a young age.

I’m a little skeptical of some of the details. It might well have been that some players used the club as a defence for their desire to break up. Then found themselves delisted and went back to their old relationships and put the blame on the club. I know that’s pretty cynical but don’t tell me it’s implausible.

Will be interesting to see what the burden of proof becomes and the split of former hawks 

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:48, DeeSpencer said:

The abortion stuff is indefensible, as is the nature of the ways they went about undermining relationships. And if it was purely for Indigenous players and not the rest then that’s unacceptable too.

Otherwise I imagine the coaches came at it from a point of view that it’s really hard to maintain a successful relationship with someone long distance and do the work needed to have a long afl career. Even more so if you add kids at a young age.

I’m a little skeptical of some of the details. It might well have been that some players used the club as a defence for their desire to break up. Then found themselves delisted and went back to their old relationships and put the blame on the club. I know that’s pretty cynical but don’t tell me it’s implausible.

Will be interesting to see what the burden of proof becomes and the split of former hawks 

Well, we could all sprout strange theories mate, but that doesn't really cut it. Have you any evidence of this, or just pissing in the breeze?

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:48, DeeSpencer said:

The abortion stuff is indefensible, as is the nature of the ways they went about undermining relationships. And if it was purely for Indigenous players and not the rest then that’s unacceptable too.

Otherwise I imagine the coaches came at it from a point of view that it’s really hard to maintain a successful relationship with someone long distance and do the work needed to have a long afl career. Even more so if you add kids at a young age.

I’m a little skeptical of some of the details. It might well have been that some players used the club as a defence for their desire to break up. Then found themselves delisted and went back to their old relationships and put the blame on the club. I know that’s pretty cynical but don’t tell me it’s implausible.

Will be interesting to see what the burden of proof becomes and the split of former hawks 

 

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:44, layzie said:

I'd be getting on a plane pretty quick if I were him.

Hopefully to travel somewhere else than Australia.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:11, dazzledavey36 said:

All we need now is someone to provide a quote from Andrew Bolt in justifying the behaviour and we're set.

Give it time. It’ll come.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:56, BoBo said:

Give it time. It’ll come.

Will look out for it on his show tonight.

Actually no.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:27, Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm waiting for Jeff Kennett's response to these matters

In addition to Jeff Kennett ...

Andrew Newbold was Hawthorn President from 2012-15 and is now on the AFL Commission.

Ian Robson was CEO of Hawthorn from 2005-09 and then of course moved to Essendon in the drug saga period. Now CEO of Rowing Australia.

Stuart Fox was CEO of Hawthorn from 2009-16. Now CEO of the MCC.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by old55

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:27, Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm waiting for Jeff Kennett's response to these matters

Somewhat laughable that he headed up Beyond Blue BBO.

Also (and this may already have been said), how many actual football journalists are there that aren't completely compromised. Russell Jack appears to be the one of the only journalists with the balls to report anything not AFL approved.

 

"The club will continue to provide support to those who have participated in this process, and their wellbeing remains our priority," Hawthorn said in a statement released on Wednesday morning.

What a joke this statement is. Especially the words "continue" and "remains", as it doesn't appear their wellbeing was ever a priority.

Bolt will be pushing the George Pell defence and Rita will be shouting that its wokeism gone mad.