20 minutes ago, binman said:

We are factoring in loading, or should if we are interested in understanding what happened, because we are in the tapering phase of the program.

And in aprox week two of that phase we are still seven weeks of our optimal level. 

 

Are you serious? I believe in the loading, but it's designed so you reach peak fitness levels weeks out from finals, and maintain those levels for the remainder of the year.

What's the point of having a team at it's optimal level come Prelim Final when you might not be in it?

All this time spent on the 14th reason for how we are currently playing…

15 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

well if this were true the pies would win a high %  of the close games across all seasons. which they haven’t.  A brief glance at just the grand finals lost by close margins would reveal something else. 

They’re riding a wave this year. They were peaking as a team on Friday eve and I strongly believe they will not be able to sustain it and that that wave will collapse come finals. 

Their crowd has been an enormous factor in the close games they've won all across the country this year. 

In the Gold Coast, it would have felt like their home game given the number of supporters they have. And at the G, they would feel unstoppable with that force of support behind them. 

They're a young, up and coming team. I don't care about years previous. It can be the difference in the last quarters of a game. And it has been. 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by JimmyGadson

2 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Are you serious? I believe in the loading, but it's designed so you reach peak fitness levels weeks out from finals, and maintain those levels for the remainder of the year.

Um, no it's not.

Think of an Olympic swimming gold medal race.  Do you think the winner is swimming the same times seven weeks our from the final?

 

4 minutes ago, binman said:

If you are a 'loading believer' then you also understand we are weeks away from our optimal level as tapering is a critical part of the program.

No, that's how YOU believe it works, and that doesn't make it fact.

My theory of loading is that by now we should be at our peak and then the focus is simply maintaining that until grand final day.

Given you base a lot of your arguments on what happened last year then i find it a bit strange you are now saying it's different this year.

Convert those shots at goal, bring in a genuine contested marking goal kicker and clean up our entries going forward and we win that game against Collingwood. 

REGARDLESS OF WHAT PHASE OF LOADING WE'RE IN. 

 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by JimmyGadson

Just now, JimmyGadson said:

Their crowd has been an enormous factor in the close games they've won all across the country this year. 

I agree.

And I also 100% agree it was a big factor on Friday night. 

It was incredible atmosphere actually, and as much as I hate the carry on of fans on the train afterwards, I couldn't help but be jealous that the opposition fans, at our bloody home game  could be such a force.

I think their energy created almost a vibe of inevitably and absolutely would have had an impact on their performance and probably ours too. Maybe even the umpires too.

1 minute ago, JimmyGadson said:

Convert those shots at goal, bring in a genuine contested marking goal kicker and clean up our entries going forward and we win that game against Collingwood. 

REGARDLESS OF WHAT PHASE OF LOADING WE'RE IN. 

 

Agree.

11 minutes ago, binman said:

I think that is a very good point.

Bottom line teams won't won of they ley us congratulations the tempo. Few teams have the ability to disrupt that. The pies were brilliant at it and sued great.

Ugh. I tried to translate but couldn't.

3 minutes ago, binman said:

I agree.

And I also 100% agree it was a big factor on Friday night. 

It was incredible atmosphere actually, and as much as I hate the carry on of fans on the train afterwards, I couldn't help but be jealous that the opposition fans, at our bloody home game  could be such a force.

I think their energy created almost a vibe of inevitably and absolutely would have had an impact on their performance and probably ours too. Maybe even the umpires too.

 

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree.

 

I feel uncomfortable that you're agreeing with me. 

Are you unwell? 

18 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, that's how YOU believe it works, and that doesn't make it fact.

My theory of loading is that by now we should be at our peak and then the focus is simply maintaining that until grand final day.

Given you base a lot of your arguments on what happened last year then i find it a bit strange you are now saying it's different this year.

No, that's how I believe the science works from what I have read. Read coaches informed  post on this very point earlier in this thread.

Loading is a phase in a periodisation program. 

Tapering is part of that same program

We ARE mirroring last years program. We played incredibly well on Friday  night.

Better than any of our last 4 games in the home ans away last year.

The fact we lost doesn't change that.

Last year we didnt come up against a team on a 10 game winning steak- or indeed even a finalist.

In the corresponding game we just got over the top of West Coast.

I completely reject your comment that I'm saying it is different this year.  

What I have said, and hav been proven wrong about, is that we would win all our remaining games post finishing the loading phase.

Anyway, nev I'm not going to go back and forth any more with you on this. Happy for everyone to have their perspectives on this.

But i would prefer I'm not ridiculed for mine (not saying you are doing so).

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by binman

8 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

 

I feel uncomfortable that you're agreeing with me. 

Are you unwell? 

Still feel sick about losing on Friday night. 

All going well we should be at peak fitness for mad Monday 

It is true that the players feed off the crowd. This is something I worry about come finals if we were to come up against them in a prelim. This of course depends on our supporter turnout but going off this year it will probably be poor and theirs will dominate.

Obviously if we play our best scintillating footy then it should shut them up, but it will always be a motivating factor for them for getting back into the game.

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by Deenooos_

3 minutes ago, binman said:

We ARE mirroring last years program. We played incredibly well on Friday  night.

Better than any of our last 4 games in the home ans away last year.

The fact we lost doesn't change that.

Don't agree on this at all. We clearly ran out of steam in the second half, that doesn't 'mirror' last year at all.

  

3 minutes ago, binman said:

But i would prefer I'm not ridiculed for mine (not saying you ate doing so).

No one has 'ridiculed' you from what I've seen, but just like the rest of us here you should be prepared to ride the bumps of Demonland. You accepted the praise last week when we beat Freo so you should be prepared to cop the criticism this week instead of (IMO) trying to change the narrative you yourself had previously set.

Numerous players are down on their best whilst others have stagnated or just not come on

The best way to evaluate is to look at how we have played in the last 10 games

2 excellent games with 8 x Non A Grade efforts ... and that's way too many.  2 or 3 off days might be acceptable for a supposed A Grade team.  Not 8

We were not all that impressive against the Crows & Port whilst we lost 6 of the other 10 games with below par efforts

So if we are loading, tapering or whatever, it isn't working. It's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by Macca

3 minutes ago, Deenooos_ said:

It is true that the players feed off the crowd. This is something I worry about come finals if we were to come up against them in a prelim. This of course depends on our supporter turnout but going off this year it will probably poor and theirs will dominate.

Obviously if we play our best scintillating footy then it should shut them up, but it will always be a motivating factor for them for getting back into the game.

And yet our record on the road, in the most hostile environments is extraordinary.  The best in the competition by a long way.  Playing in Adelaide or Perth seems to hold no fear.  And I don't think playing at the Gabba in the final game will bother us much.  

16 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Don't agree on this at all. We clearly ran out of steam in the second half, that doesn't 'mirror' last year at all.

  

No one has 'ridiculed' you from what I've seen, but just like the rest of us here you should be prepared to ride the bumps of Demonland. You accepted the praise last week when we beat Freo so you should be prepared to cop the criticism this week instead of (IMO) trying to change the narrative you yourself had previously set.

We ran out of steam in the last 10 mins against the pies  a team who was playing brilliant, finals level football - and still nearly won.

Yes, the lighting break was no doubt a factor, but we ran out of steam against the Eagles, a team.who did not make the finals and was in a poor patch of form, in the last 10 minutes of the corresponding game last year.

We almost got run down in that game - having been level at half time and only playing one short patch of dominant football in the third quarter. We were WAY more impressive on Friday night.

I'm not changing my narrative nev, and frankly do not appreciate the suggestion I have.

This is last time I'm going to bother engaging with you on this topic. 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by binman

2 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

And yet our record on the road, in the most hostile environments is extraordinary.  The best in the competition by a long way.  Playing in Adelaide or Perth seems to hold no fear.  And I don't think playing at the Gabba in the final game will bother us much.  

Wouldn't put any of the SA, QLD or WA teams in the same category as Collingwood form wise though. Don't think anyone is saying home crowds solely determine a result.

25 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, that's how YOU believe it works, and that doesn't make it fact.

My theory of loading is that by now we should be at our peak and then the focus is simply maintaining that until grand final day.

I don't think you quite understand how it works. There is a gradual increase in performance after you stop the increase in training volumes, this process is when the tapering part of the program is implemented. You can think of it like a curve on a graph that is slowly curving upwards and will likely reach its "peak" in 2-4 weeks after tapering has begun, that's the whole idea.

I think Binman has been spot on and not moved the goalposts, last year we were still loading in round 19 hence the poor performance against the dogs. It was always talked about that in round 20 we would start to see the benefits of our program and we did against freo last week but we are by no means at our peak.

We are no longer loading but that doesn't necessarily mean we should/are peaking right now, but rather it will be an incremental improvement as we get closer to finals, although I've noticed considerable improvement In the past 2 weeks tactics and that jazz aside.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

We ran out of steam in tbe last 10 mins against the pies - and still nearly won.

I'm not changing my narrative nev, and frankly do not appreciate the suggestion I have.

You are mate.

You said last week we were able to be ruthless "from start to finish" because "the club knew we were going to have the legs to do so."

Now we're running out of puff but that's also completely expected? Come on mate.

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Wouldn't put any of the SA, QLD or WA teams in the same category as Collingwood form wise though. Don't think anyone is saying home crowds solely determine a result.

Absolutely.  The point is the crowd don't beat us.

Just now, Swooper1987 said:

Absolutely.  The point is the crowd don't beat us.

No one said the crowd alone beat us.

Just now, Lord Nev said:

No one said the crowd alone beat us.

I'm pleased to hear that, because they'd be wrong. 

18 minutes ago, Deenooos_ said:

I think Binman has been spot on and not moved the goalposts

 

Edited August 7, 20223 yr by Lord Nev