TRAINING: Friday 10th December 2021

[Chook 15,013]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Grand final form does not carry into round 1 next year. Its a completely clean slate going into the new year. This was the key message that was given to Luke Dunstan by Simon Goodwin.

If there is an opportunity there that a player can make us one better then the grand final team then I'm taking that over anything.

That means a fully fit Jayden Hunt replaces Hibberd, and pending pre season form and injury, Dunstan could easily mount a case over Jordon, Sparrow, and potentially Harmes.

Sparrow ain't going anywhere. He'll be a top-shelf (goal-kicking) mid in no time.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Grand final form does not carry into round 1 next year. Its a completely clean slate going into the new year. This was the key message that was given to Luke Dunstan by Simon Goodwin.

If there is an opportunity there that a player can make us one better then the grand final team then I'm taking that over anything.

That means a fully fit Jayden Hunt replaces Hibberd, and pending pre season form and injury, Dunstan could easily mount a case over Jordon, Sparrow, and potentially Harmes.

It's going to be really interesting.  Dunstans a good player who has been hindered by injuries. But the gf team is a tough act to follow for sure. I think if they all hold for. It's going to be very tough for him to break in as for everybody.

The upside is players will be aware of this and will hopefully do their best to get in but equally not lose their spot.

I think Sparrow will go leaps and bounds and hold his spot. Viney may lose his again through injury and his issues may have been a contributing factor to Dunstans recruitment.   

[DeeZone 9,828]

Hey Picket the last training pics were from 13th and then nothing!! Have they finished training pre - Xmas?

[Webber 10,465]

16 hours ago, picket fence said:

Would seen foolishly risky if there was ANY doubt!

There’s always doubt, and there’s always tinkering/improvising on existing protocols. Otherwise known as trial and error. Ask David Schwarz. 

11 hours ago, Watson11 said:

For womens AFL and soccer it seems to be the same ridiculously high rate.  But what’s the story with the 6 month rehab Burgo talks about in soccer? Don’t they have the same joint irritation issues?

The women’s issue is troubling, and complicated. At the moment, their rate of ACL rupture is somewhere between 2 and 3 times that of men. There’s a number of theories as to why, none of which dominate. Anatomical differences (thigh to lower leg angle, narrower notch at the bottom of the femur that’s more likely to ‘cut’ the ACL in rotational activities), hormonal consequences (monthly ligamentous softening), developmental differences - are girls/women coming to the sport later less bodily ‘attuned’ or familiar with its bio-mechanical specifics? Current thinking is that it’s likely a combination of all these factors. The industry is trying to find screening measures (being doing this for decades) to assess the likelihood of ACL injury, and specific training to lessen likelihood, but I suspect nothing will change until the women’s game is made of girls/women who’ve all been playing from ‘birth’, like the men, and the ACL vulnerable are weeded out before they get to adult status. Even then, incidence will be higher. Do you then alter rules, etc to mitigate incidence, and how? Complicated. 
 

No, soccer doesn’t have the same joint forces through the knee. Less game time = less running = less load. Less body contact (no tackling), less spiking joint forces (jumping, landing), and arguably less rotational repetition. Australian Football is unique in its lower limb demands, all of which makes it a perfect storm for the poor old knee. 

[Watson11 2,240]

4 hours ago, Webber said:

No, soccer doesn’t have the same joint forces through the knee. Less game time = less running = less load. Less body contact (no tackling), less spiking joint forces (jumping, landing), and arguably less rotational repetition. Australian Football is unique in its lower limb demands, all of which makes it a perfect storm for the poor old knee. 

Burgo and Brukky argue that tackling in soccer is pretty hard on bones and joints (similar to why sliding into contests is cracked down on in AFL). But your point about AFL being worse is correct.  From what I can see though, American Football is really bad for ACLs and worse than AFL.  Their rates are through the roof.

A recent article reviewing ACL data in AFL is here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8020809/ 

Taking too long to return is worse than returning early!

"The timing of return to competition has also been examined to determine whether an early return is associated with an increased risk of reinjury.34 In this analysis, 233 AFL players who returned to play after autograft ACL reconstruction were grouped based on the time they returned to competition, at <10 months, 10–12 months or >12 months. Players who returned at 10–12 months had the lowest ACL injury risk per game. Players who returned before 10 months had the next highest risk but also played the greatest number of post-injury career games. Interestingly, players who returned after 12 months had the highest per game ACL injury risk and played the fewest post-injury career games. As such, there may be a “sweet spot” in time where both early and late return to play leads to suboptimal outcomes"

 

[Webber 10,465]

22 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Taking too long to return is worse than returning early!

For the sole reason that a delayed return usually indicates a problematic knee. That is, the return date is not by choice. The vast majority of the delays I’ve treated are caused by joint-surface trauma issues, not the graft, thus a compromised future. We discussed the article a bit at work when it came out, and noted the lack of commentary on this, but then again, that would need another study!). American Football is inherently hard to analyse because it is positionally based, meaning some field-positions will have very high incidence, others very low. I’m loathe to even compare the two. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Webber

[Dees2014 2,377]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:44 PM, WERRIDEE said:

That's good because he's in my December best 22.

B: TOMLINSON, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, PETTY, BOWEY

C: LANGDON, PETRACCA, BRAYSHAW

HF: SPARGO, MCDONALD, NEAL-BULLEN

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: RIVERS, HARMES, DUNSTAN, JACKSON

SUB: HUNT

EMERG: SPARROW, JORDON, HIBBERD

 

CASEY

B: BUNTINE, TURNER, HIBBERD

HB: HUNT, J.SMITH, MCVEE

C: BAKER, SPARROW, HOWES

HF: MELKSHAM, VAN ROOYEN, CHANDLER

F: M.BROWN, WEIDEMAN, BEDFORD

FOLL: DAW, JORDON, MUNRO

IC: WHITE, LAURIE, ROSMAN, D.SMITH

EMERG: WOEWODIN, MONIZ-WAKEFIELD, GREY

I have one change: Hunt for Dunstan. We can do with JH’s speed, hardness and skill. Don’t get me wrong, l think Dunstan is brilliant recruitment, and as we go through our inevitable injury cycle he will get plenty of opportunities. In any case, we need to give Choco academy time to teach him to kick……

[Watson11 2,240]

59 minutes ago, Webber said:

For the sole reason that a delayed return usually indicates a problematic knee. That is, the return date is not by choice. The vast majority of the delays I’ve treated are caused by joint-surface trauma issues, not the graft, thus a compromised future. We discussed the article a bit at work when it came out, and noted the lack of commentary on this, but then again, that would need another study!). American Football is inherently hard to analyse because it is positionally based, meaning some field-positions will have very high incidence, others very low. I’m loathe to even compare the two. 

Thanks for your informed commentary.  

Re American Football, it's not just the positional stuff that makes it hard to compare, but also the player welfare (there is none).  For those that haven't listened to Burgos podcast with Dave Reagan, it is really interesting, as when he worked in the NFL the compliance with all the high performance stuff is almost zero.  Players refuse to do urine tests, surveys etc as they believe they could lose their job on the spot if they answer honestly.  Fast returns from ACLs in the NFL may also be related to job security.

[Webber 10,465]

2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Thanks for your informed commentary.  

Re American Football, it's not just the positional stuff that makes it hard to compare, but also the player welfare (there is none).  For those that haven't listened to Burgos podcast with Dave Reagan, it is really interesting, as when he worked in the NFL the compliance with all the high performance stuff is almost zero.  Players refuse to do urine tests, surveys etc as they believe they could lose their job on the spot if they answer honestly.  Fast returns from ACLs in the NFL may also be related to job security.

Sounds great W11, will give it a listen. 

[Watson11 2,240]

7 hours ago, Webber said:

Sounds great W11, will give it a listen. 

Another one worth listening to is https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-q88es-e6b7e7  Burgo rates Brett Emerton (former socceroo) as one of the best athletes he has been involved with.  From 3 mins.  It is what prompted the discussion on ACL rehabs as Emerton returned to the premier league 6 months to the day after the injury. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Watson11

[demon3165 2,718]

That's good because he's in my December best 22.

B: TOMLINSON, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, PETTY, BOWEY

C: LANGDON, PETRACCA, BRAYSHAW

HF: SPARGO, MCDONALD, NEAL-BULLEN

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, DUNSTAN,

IC: RIVERS, JORDON, SPARROW, JACKSON

SUB: HUNT

EMERG: VINEY, HARMES, HIBBERD

[monoccular 17,427]

On 12/16/2021 at 3:10 PM, 58er said:

Knowing Goodie I reckon he will go in unchanged. 

Reason is Sparrow and Hibbo  both played good games and earned their spot.
Both Tommo and Dunstan can wait to show form in practice matches and maybe even early Casey rounds to displace Tom and Michael.

Actually Hunt and Joel Smith come into the frame for a back spot also and Jordon for a mid position if any injuries occur.

There would be something special about the "Same Great Special 23" repeating the dose in Round 1 again over the Dogs in our history and AFL tales.

Its only a feeling but Goody  won't make changes for changes sake. Tommo for one may be better off in the Ressies to ease back into top condition. 

I seem to have heard somewhere that no GF winning team has ever played entirely together again.  That would be a first, though not a reason in itself not to make any unforced changes..

[monoccular 17,427]

Webber and Watson11

Is netball not a greater source of ACL injury than Australian football?  A lot of stopping suddenly with twist on a fixed foot?

[Wizard of Koz 1,085]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:27 AM, Dees2014 said:

I have one change: Hunt for Dunstan. We can do with JH’s speed, hardness and skill. Don’t get me wrong, l think Dunstan is brilliant recruitment, and as we go through our inevitable injury cycle he will get plenty of opportunities. In any case, we need to give Choco academy time to teach him to kick……

Anyone know what Williams contract tenure is. He needs to be retained and he will be hunted. Are he and Goodwin close? Sometimes I think Goody is pretty short with Chocko after games and walking off the field. It makes me wonder what the club was doing to improve kicking skills. Whatever Willams does is genius.

[58er 6,432]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:37 AM, demon3165 said:

That's good because he's in my December best 22.

B: TOMLINSON, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, PETTY, BOWEY

C: LANGDON, PETRACCA, BRAYSHAW

HF: SPARGO, MCDONALD, NEAL-BULLEN

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, DUNSTAN,

IC: RIVERS, JORDON, SPARROW, JACKSON

SUB: HUNT

EMERG: VINEY, HARMES, HIBBERD

That's ridiculous to drop Jack Viney after one of his best games ever for the Dees.

ANd for Dunstan who will get opportunities. Also Tommo if fit can start off in the Casey team and ease his way back. Hibbo did nothing wrong in the Granny and we need some ground level skills to mind the Dog smalls and not be too top heavy. 3 Talls is fine as Tmac can always go back if necessary. 

Jordon is still a good player and may just get the nod over Hunt 

No change from me as all players deserve their spot after delivering our 13 th Flag in such a spectacular and crushing way.

[dpositive 1,665]

Im not sure who, but I'd make a few changes.

1 to counter the changes made by the opposition. Maybe different skills and structures required.

2 To show all opposition teams the depth of our squad. They will not be able to plan for a set team playing set plays.

3 To allow players to pressure each other for the repeat premiership.

4 To allow players to taper and peak with confidence.