15 minutes ago, adonski said:

Players are on edge in games. No rooms for thanks or apologies in the moment as rough as it sounds. 

There’s ALWAYS room for thanks. I think it was after the 2006 grannie, the players going up to receive their medallions on the podium, all bar a couple of them totally ignored the little Aus Kicker who handed them the baseball cap. These little kids had been waiting all year for this moment and I’ll bet many of them didn’t sleep a wink the night before, such was their level of excitement. Anyways, it never happened again since there was so much public outrage about it having happened in the first place. So you can’t excuse the rudeness by saying the players are on edge. Because if players who’ve just minutes before won a flag are expected to be polite (in their heightened sense of euphoria) then everyone should be. 

Friend: are you okay? 

Me: Yup, fine.

Friend: Are you sure?

Me: Yes.

Friend: Because you seem kind of quiet. 

Me: Just give me a moment please.  

Friend: are you sure you're okay? 

Me: Not anymore goddammit. 

No one should be disrespectful to anyone else in the workplace, or any space really. But we have to acknowledge an AFL football field isn't an ordinary workspace. We want our players to get a three-quarter-time bake from the coaches in public when they underperform, but also wouldn't accept anything like that in an ordinary workplace. These are professional sports-people - who need to be able to get in a special mental zone of concentration - and the trainer is part of the support staff. 

Do you get annoyed every-time a tennis player doesn't outwardly express gratitude to a ball-kid when they toss them the ball between points or hand them a towel? 

 

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Saw Viney push the trainer too. I get that he's competitive, but that was as disrespectful as it gets as far as I'm concerned. She is a member or staff who's job is to look after the well being of the players. And he physically pushed her away? Extremely poor. 

All across the ground in the weekend I saw infighting amongst our group. 

It was an embarrassing mess of a game all over the ground. The mistakes were extraordinary and the selfishness at times was unbelievable. 

This isnt the thread but I completely disagree with those that think this was lost at selection. We've been at our best this year without Ben Brown. Do supporters understand that or not? We were something like 6 or 7 and 0 without BB or Weideman. Supporters have no idea. 

We losg the game due to our atrocious ball use going inside 50 all game. We were also comprehensively beaten up around the ball for three quarters. 

There's nothing else to it. Hopper came out and said that they had lined this game up as a 'final' for them and they played like it was a final all game. And we finally decided to give full effort in the last. But unforced errors still cost us even when we could have snatched it on the line. 

Not having Ben Brown out there was not the problem for one second. 

Between the ears again, completely. Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, May, Gawn, McDonald, Rivers, Viney, ANB etc. The mistakes they made all day killed us. 

We were 7-0 with the forward line we used on the weekend before the game.

The question is whether there is a causal link between the two. Did those 7 previous wins happen because of our small forward line?

I'm increasingly of the view that they were not all brought about by reason of us being small up forward: in other words, had we played Brown or Weideman in those games we still would have won some/all of them.

Our ball use going inside 50 was poor but it's chicken-egg - how many times did we bomb it to the goalsquare because we had to stop and wait for TMac/Gawn/Fritsch/Jackson to get back, because they had had to run up the ground to make the play and there was no one else left inside 50 to move it more quickly?

How many times did we kick it neatly but the target was ANB, Spargo or Pickett, because we were undersized?

That isn't to say that Brown in = win, because as you say our stoppage work was terrible, but there is a completely valid argument that we need another marking forward.

By the way, I'd argue our "best" wins were vs the Bulldogs and Brisbane - in both those games we went in with Weid alongside TMac. So I'd argue we've been at our best with two tall forwards (plus Fritsch and Jackson).

2 hours ago, Smokey said:

Well that response is a bit different to your first one. I agree. 

I think people have to look at it in context, it’s not a normal workplace, they’re elite sportspeople who are in a certain frame of mind when in action. Viney had been cleaned up and was trying to get his breath and would have been sore, sometimes in that environment it’s just a natural reaction. I remember on when I was in defence and did selection, there were plenty of times I was sore, tired, sucking in the oxygen and someone would try to assist but you’d push them away, you don’t mean any harm, you’re just so focussed. Sometimes you just need space and you literally can’t talk, you just push that person away. It’s easy to judge someone when sitting at home on your comfy sofa I suppose. 

As I said, it’s not a good look but look at it in context and let’s not get carried away. 

Edited July 5, 20213 yr by Ethan Trembley

3 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Saw Viney push the trainer too. I get that he's competitive, but that was as disrespectful as it gets as far as I'm concerned. She is a member or staff who's job is to look after the well being of the players. And he physically pushed her away? Extremely poor. 

All across the ground in the weekend I saw infighting amongst our group. 

It was an embarrassing mess of a game all over the ground. The mistakes were extraordinary and the selfishness at times was unbelievable. 

This isnt the thread but I completely disagree with those that think this was lost at selection. We've been at our best this year without Ben Brown. Do supporters understand that or not? We were something like 6 or 7 and 0 without BB or Weideman. Supporters have no idea. 

We losg the game due to our atrocious ball use going inside 50 all game. We were also comprehensively beaten up around the ball for three quarters. 

There's nothing else to it. Hopper came out and said that they had lined this game up as a 'final' for them and they played like it was a final all game. And we finally decided to give full effort in the last. But unforced errors still cost us even when we could have snatched it on the line. 

Not having Ben Brown out there was not the problem for one second. 

Between the ears again, completely. Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, May, Gawn, McDonald, Rivers, Viney, ANB etc. The mistakes they made all day killed us. 

Ben Brown hasn't played for several weeks and we've been at our worst, so without him it's been inconclusive. There's only one way to find out.

45 minutes ago, Skuit said:

 

Do you get annoyed every-time a tennis player doesn't outwardly express gratitude to a ball-kid when they toss them the ball between points or hand them a towel? 

 

Yes, I actually do. Well, not at a lack of an outward expression of gratitude. I think at the very least the players should make eye contact with the ball/towel kids. A little raise of the eyebrows to acknowledge the kid wouldn’t go astray either. It’s simply common decency. 

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yes, I actually do. Well, not at a lack of an outward expression of gratitude. I think at the very least the players should make eye contact with the ball/towel kids. A little raise of the eyebrows to acknowledge the kid wouldn’t go astray either. It’s simply common decency. 

I’ll email Federer and let him know a little raise of the eyebrows to the ball-person every time they return a ball would be appreciated. 

Edited July 5, 20213 yr by Ethan Trembley

Dear Roger,

An overwhelming number of people are becoming annoyed that you and your fellow tennis players are not acknowledging the ball-person when they throw the ball back at you. To cease this annoyance, could you please stop concentrating on your next move within the match and kindly face the ball-person and raise an eyebrow (or two) in appreciation. 

Much love, 

Ethan

Edited July 5, 20213 yr by Ethan Trembley

On the OP, it's funny - how many posters bemoan a lack of "mongrel", or complain when the players laugh after a game or look relaxed in the warm up, or play with emotion, but then simultaneously take issue with this?

I hope an email goes out to the team to thank the trainers and water bottle folks on the field. Good lord!

They are focused in an aggressive manic mindset and we want manners? and by the way if they are not focused in this aggressive crash-a-body mindset for a second they get labelled squibs or soft.

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

 

what I find astounding is the myth people have about Ben Brown being some pack crashing contested marking beast.

 

No-one has said that.
He's a lead up forward who takes the ball at the highest point.
And then kicks straight for goal.

We could use one of those.

I once saw this formula 1 driver who didn't individually thank his crew during a pit stop.

I mean it's just common decency

He just drove off!

 

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

 Do you get annoyed every-time a tennis player doesn't outwardly express gratitude to a ball-kid when they toss them the ball between points or hand them a towel? 

 

 I kinda do.
Let 'em get their own fricken towel.
Pampered princesses that they are.

As for pushing the trainer away.
Not on IMO.
Total disrespect.
Not hard to tell 'em "It's right." and jog on.
 

Edited July 5, 20213 yr by Fork 'em

33 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I once saw this formula 1 driver who didn't individually thank his crew during a pit stop.

I mean it's just common decency

He just drove off!

 Not even a nod of the helmet? 

1 hour ago, Ethan Trembley said:

I’ll email Federer and let him know a little raise of the eyebrows to the ball-person every time they return a ball would be appreciated. 

Cheers, saves me the time of having to do it. 

31 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

 

 I kinda do.
Let 'em get their own fricken towel.
Pampered princesses that they are.

As for pushing the trainer away.
Not on IMO.
Total disrespect.
Not hard to tell 'em "It's right." and jog on.
 

Couldn’t forkin agree more. 

2 hours ago, Tim said:

This is something that astounds me every game I watch. It is just common decency to say “thanks” when the trainer gives you a drink or whatever. 

We see the great “standards” on display with players sweeping the room, as per the All Blacks. Might be sincere, but is caught on camera and looks a little bit staged - Humility Signalling, if you like. A quick acknowledgment of the water bottle carrier is actually a human interaction that they could engage in, as distinct from being on the sweeping end of a broom for the change room camera.

Personally I've always thought body language could be better or a thanks used.

But I Ivery loosely know one of the Melbourne trainers and was talking to them last week in a general conversation. I wouldn't expect this person to say anything bad about Melbourne or the players - because it is the trainers workplace too - but this person did comment to me about the players being a good bunch of people and generally pretty friendly to be around.

No need to say that if they didn't mean it.

14 minutes ago, deanox said:

Personally I've always thought body language could be better or a thanks used.

But I Ivery loosely know one of the Melbourne trainers and was talking to them last week in a general conversation. I wouldn't expect this person to say anything bad about Melbourne or the players - because it is the trainers workplace too - but this person did comment to me about the players being a good bunch of people and generally pretty friendly to be around.

No need to say that if they didn't mean it.

It’s all business out there. No need for too many niceties and platitudes. Get the job done. Players have little time to take their drinks, focus and reset. The players and trainers understand it. If an awkward moment happens I’m sure it’s sorted out after the game.

Edited July 5, 20213 yr by John Crow Batty

Speaking of tennis, it always [censored] me when they just toss their sweaty gross towel behind them after every point. Not sure how it’s become the norm for the ball kids to ferry them their towel after every point of a match.

6 hours ago, roy11 said:

Still not sure if he burnt him or if it was a bad kick.

 

He burnt him. He was going for goal and the kick was nowhere near Trac who was in the other pocket. He just didn't see him or decided to take it on himself.

1 hour ago, A F said:

He burnt him. He was going for goal and the kick was nowhere near Trac who was in the other pocket. He just didn't see him or decided to take it on himself.

My take at the time was that he didn't see him. 

7 hours ago, olisik said:

On the weekend across a number of matches I watched, I saw players being rude and downright disrespectful towards trainers. One case is hand is when Viney was sore and the trainer came over to assist only for him to push her away.

It is a regular occurrence in the game and one I always hate seeing. It’s always a bad look and I have absolutely no idea why players would treat trainers in such a way.

I noticed that too, really [censored] me off.

2 hours ago, A F said:

He burnt him. He was going for goal and the kick was nowhere near Trac who was in the other pocket. He just didn't see him or decided to take it on himself.

If he didn't see Trac then he didn't really burn him. I only noticed Trac in the frame at the last moment - he was coming in from behind Jack's ordinary scope of vision. Not the worst crime. Also, I want our players to back themselves in and take the open shot on occasion. It's such a fine line, but might have worked out different on Saturday if Hunt had done so for example. Viney nailed at least one of those from the same spot earlier in the year. 

4 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yes, I actually do. Well, not at a lack of an outward expression of gratitude. I think at the very least the players should make eye contact with the ball/towel kids. A little raise of the eyebrows to acknowledge the kid wouldn’t go astray either. It’s simply common decency. 

 

3 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

 

 I kinda do.
Let 'em get their own fricken towel.
Pampered princesses that they are.

 

Can't tell if serious. 

2 minutes ago, Skuit said:

 

Can't tell if serious. 

Can’t speak for Fork ‘em, but I’m defs serious. All good though coz apparently @Ethan Trembley is gonna email Roger Federer to ask him to sort this out, as promised in an earlier post in this thread. ?