CHANGES: Rd 12 vs Brisbane

[Smokey 4,389]

Individual stats are meaningless when we’re playing a role based team game.

For all we know, weed did exactly what was asked of him by the coaches. 
 

im not saying weed couldn’t be doing better right now, but the notion of dropping him for Brown who could hardly get a touch at Casey is insane to me. 

[binman 43,717]

7 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Individual stats are meaningless when we’re playing a role based team game.

For all we know, weed did exactly what was asked of him by the coaches. 
 

im not saying weed couldn’t be doing better right now, but the notion of dropping him for Brown who could hardly get a touch at Casey is insane to me. 

There's a bit of a contradiction there smokey.

For all we know, brown did exactly what was asked of him by the coaches.

[Smokey 4,389]

1 minute ago, binman said:

There's a bit of a contradiction there smokey.

For all we know, brown did exactly what was asked of him by the coaches.

Or he didn’t and that’s why he got dropped in favour of weeds for the seniors team? We’re speculating of course. 

You’ve echoed my point really - we don’t know what is being asked of each individual on any given day. 
 

 

[binman 43,717]

2 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Or he didn’t and that’s why he got dropped in favour of weeds for the seniors team? We’re speculating of course. 

You’ve echoed my point really - we don’t know what is being asked of each individual on any given day. 
 

 

I was being facetious. I meant Brown's Casey game.

As I said in a previous post I think they wedged themselves  They are not going to bring Brown in but I think he shouldn't have gone out in rbe first place.

But to he honest I find both players a bit underwhelming and wonder if DeeSpencer might be on the money and come finals we revert to our rounds 1-5 set up.

Weed should be compared to naughton, not brown. That's the level he should be at.

Both the same height. Both drafted at 9. Same position.

Naughton is miles ahead

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=12&pid1=4171&fid1=S&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&pid2=6491&fid2=S&type=A

Sam is two years older and so is running out of excuses for all those game he 'nearly' starts clunking his marks or kicking goals.

[Deemania since 56 6,715]

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Except he plays 70% game time only and that’s not on a wing which requires a larger repeat sprint engine than the centre. Has the tools but not the endurance I suggest in saying that no one does so I suggest Baker in and Jordon spends some time there as well. 

Fairy Nuff; just a possible option IMO; Baker would continue his aptitude development and has been playing quite well with Casey. An apprenticeship - short term at present - on that wing might speed the development of both Jordan and Baker most certainly. There is potential somewhere in that mix. Thanks for the re-jigging of my thought processes.

Carna Dees!

[Demongirl35 1,060]

Who runs with Charlie Cameron for this game?

I watched the Brisbane game and he creates so much scoring opportunity for them and a lot of them are inspiring ones too just like kozzy for us. I find him far more dangerous than hipwood and Daniher right now. Even Mcstay. He is like our fritsch or tmac (although they’re not physically the same as him) but seem to have more impact than our talls right now. 

[Deemania since 56 6,715]

15 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

Don't take Jordon away from the contest, especially against Brisbane. He has been an absolute revelation in and under !!

Looks like he's played for 6 years !

Yes, Jordan is looking quite like a selection revelation - so much so that he could well be a champion for the Dees with that little bit more experience and opportunity. He's quite a reliable contributor; at this stage of his career, he seems to possess all the correct signs. Some 'wing-time' was only a suggestion for his diversification as a player as I feel that his attributes would manage the job rather well. 

 

[Colm 2,183]

Wasn’t able to watch the game live so watched the replay yesterday. Very different beast watching it without all the emotion of watching it live. I had already read a lot of the post about weeds so kept a close eye on his game. He had an almost game for me. Jumped for lots of marks but they didn’t quiet stick. I still think if he’s given games it will click for him in the coming weeks. 
I think he needs to be man managed a bit,  some of his defensive efforts were very lacklustre and maybe needs a kick up the [censored] for that. Also needs to develop a better understanding with our other forwards as they seemed to be going for same ball a fair bit and blocking each other. I still think he can be a big player for us this season. 
Langdon out is a big loss. Super consistent for us this year and we might be best to rotate a few players on the wing. If we bring in a small defender then Rivers could spend some time there, so can Tmac when max hoes forward. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

I was being facetious. I meant Brown's Casey game.

As I said in a previous post I think they wedged themselves  They are not going to bring Brown in but I think he shouldn't have gone out in rbe first place.

But to he honest I find both players a bit underwhelming and wonder if DeeSpencer might be on the money and come finals we revert to our rounds 1-5 set up.

Weed should be compared to naughton, not brown. That's the level he should be at.

Both the same height. Both drafted at 9. Same position.

Naughton is miles ahead

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=12&pid1=4171&fid1=S&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&pid2=6491&fid2=S&type=A

Sam is two years older and so is running out of excuses for all those game he 'nearly' starts clunking his marks or kicking goals.

Weid and Naughton aren't competing for the same spot.

[binman 43,717]

29 minutes ago, Demongirl35 said:

Who runs with Charlie Cameron for this game?

I watched the Brisbane game and he creates so much scoring opportunity for them and a lot of them are inspiring ones too just like kozzy for us. I find him far more dangerous than hipwood and Daniher right now. Even Mcstay. He is like our fritsch or tmac (although they’re not physically the same as him) but seem to have more impact than our talls right now. 

I reckon hibberd will get him. Seems to be their go to player now to lock down dangerous small and mediums. Took Martin, papley and betts. Can go with Cameron.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

The Carlton game was borderline, but I felt Weid just edged Brown in that one, particularly given how much Brown and TMac were getting in each others ways. Then Weid had a poor one against the Crows, to be fair though none of our marking forwards did well in that game given the delivery - TMac and Fritsch both down as well, and all BB had to do was kick a couple for Casey to get back in. Unfortunately he had an absolute stinker and didn't earn a call up.

That's how it works now. You have to earn a shot no matter who you are or how well you played a few years ago. Brown is unlucky big time there's no game this week, but he only has himself to blame after his showing for Casey last week.

Can we remove the Carlton game out of the equation because it didn’t work with the cluster f#*k of talls as we are all aware, so comparing stats is pointless.
Now let’s compare Brown v North and Sydney against Weid v Crows and Dogs. 
For me Browns output in those games, more so the Sydney game outweigh what Weid has produced. Brown’s involvement in the Swan’s game far outweighs his lack of involvement in the VFL.
 

[binman 43,717]

20 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Weid and Naughton aren't competing for the same spot.

True.

Weed has zero chance to be named AA full forward this season. 

Or taking Naughton's spot in the 40 man squad for that matter.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by binman

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Can we remove the Carlton game out of the equation because it didn’t work with the cluster f#*k of talls as we are all aware, so comparing stats is pointless.
Now let’s compare Brown v North and Sydney against Weid v Crows and Dogs. 
For me Browns output in those games, more so the Sydney game outweigh what Weid has produced. Brown’s involvement in the Swan’s game far outweighs his lack of involvement in the VFL.
 

Honestly, I don't understand why people insist on going on past form instead of current form when picking between these two, it's selective bias and not how the team is selected by the match committee.

You can't compare different games like that either. Fritsch and TMac were poor against the Crows as well from an output perspective, should we drop one of them for Majak because he had a good game as a forward once or twice a few years ago?

I just find this anti-Weid stuff really strange. On merit, Weid should be in ahead of Brown atm, and that's what is happening. It won't take much for Brown to break into the side, it's a low bar, but he's not hit the bar yet.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

True.

Weed has zero chance to be named AA full forward this season. 

Or taking Naughton's spot in the 40 man squad for that matter.

 

Neither does Brown.

Pointless post and comparison.

[Mono 455]

13 hours ago, defuture15 said:

I still think that weid and TMAC are fighting for the same position. TMAC plays it better.

If Weid is to stay in the side he needs to do the TMAC role more as TMAC played as the FF last night. 

There appears to be a disconnect between the tall forwards and Max.

Weid kicked his goals when Fritta was up the field.

I would have played BB under the roof but TMAC is playing the FF role best ATM

I think Tmac and Brown are fighting for the one spot.

Reckon the plan was for Brown and Weid to be the forward talls until Tommy turned his game around and is first picked.

[binman 43,717]

21 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Neither does Brown.

Pointless post and comparison.

Nuance is ok nev. 

Everything doesn't have to be black and white. 

It is ok for me to introduce a discussion about weed comparing poorly to naughton.

Even if, shock  horror, it is in posts related to a discussion of brown v weed.

Fell free not engage in said discussion. 

And on black and white and things that are strange i find comments such ad this one perplexing:

'On merit, Weid should be in ahead of Brown atm'

You say that as if it is fact. Its your opinion. Not fact. A number of posters thought weed should have been dropped not Brown. Not unreasonable given how poor he has been in the ladt two games.

And you seem to be putting a lot of stock in the Brown's case game.

Maybe their were mitigating circumstances. Maybe he was carrying an injury. Maybe the coaches told him to hold back in case he needed to be called up for the ones. Maybe he struggled to combine with mitch. 

Who knows.

Look, I agree he is unlikely to replace weed this week. But as I said in my first post on this topic I think Brown is a better footballer than weed and I'd prefer him in tbe side than weed.

And he compares pretty favourable to naughton too.

Last year was a write off. But he has numbers that weed can only dream of.

In the 2017, 2018 and 2019 home and away seasons Brown finished 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman medal and kicked a combined total of 188 goals across 66 games, the most of any player in the AFL over that time period.

Bit of merit right there.

[Smokey 4,389]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I was being facetious. I meant Brown's Casey game.

As I said in a previous post I think they wedged themselves  They are not going to bring Brown in but I think he shouldn't have gone out in rbe first place.

But to he honest I find both players a bit underwhelming and wonder if DeeSpencer might be on the money and come finals we revert to our rounds 1-5 set up.

Weed should be compared to naughton, not brown. That's the level he should be at.

Both the same height. Both drafted at 9. Same position.

Naughton is miles ahead

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=12&pid1=4171&fid1=S&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&pid2=6491&fid2=S&type=A

Sam is two years older and so is running out of excuses for all those game he 'nearly' starts clunking his marks or kicking goals.

Your point is well taken. Naughton has played almost 20 more games than Weid in 2 less years though, so the statement that Weid is two years ahead of him doesn’t tell the full story.

Weideman hasn’t had the benefit of continuity to develop his game like Aaron has, and I think that’s an important point to consider. 
 

Im not defending Weid’s output by any means, I think he needs to start doing more now. 

[binman 43,717]

Just now, binman said:

Nuance is ok nev. 

Everything doesn't have to be black and white. 

It is ok for me to introduce a discussion about weed comparing poorly to naughton.

Even if, shock  horror, it is in posts related to a discussion of brown v weed.

Fell free not engage in said discussion. 

And on black and white and things that are strange i find comments such ad this one perplexing:

'On merit, Weid should be in ahead of Brown atm'

You say that as if it is fact. Its your opinion. Not fact. A number of posters thought weed should have been dropped not Brown. Not unreasonable given how poor he has been in the last two games.

And you seem to be putting a lot of stock in the one casey game.

Maybe there were mitigating circumstances. Maybe he was carrying an injury. Maybe the coaches told him to hold back in case he needed to be called up for the ones. Maybe he struggled to combine with mitch. 

Who knows.

Look, I agree he is unlikely to replace weed this week. But as I said in my first post on this topic I think Brown is a better footballer than weed and I'd prefer him in tbe side than weed.

And he compares pretty favourable to naughton too.

Last year was a write off. But he has numbers that weed can only dream of.

In the 2017, 2018 and 2019 home and away seasons Brown finished 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman medal and kicked a combined total of 188 goals across 66 games, the most of any player in the AFL over that time period.

Bit of merit right there.

 

[binman 43,717]

Just now, Smokey said:

Your point is well taken. Naughton has played almost 20 more games than Weid in 2 less years though, so the statement that Weid is two years ahead of him doesn’t tell the full story.

Weideman hasn’t had the benefit of continuity to develop his game like Aaron has, and I think that’s an important point to consider. 
 

Im not defending Weid’s output by any means, I think he needs to start doing more now. 

Fair comments.

And to be honest much of my frustration with weed is how talented he is. Which why I think a comparison to naughton is fair. 

He has the tools. And I really hope he fulfills his talent. A good start would be upping his intensity. Jogging after opponents is a bad look.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

43 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Honestly, I don't understand why people insist on going on past form instead of current form when picking between these two, it's selective bias and not how the team is selected by the match committee.

You can't compare different games like that either. Fritsch and TMac were poor against the Crows as well from an output perspective, should we drop one of them for Majak because he had a good game as a forward once or twice a few years ago?

I just find this anti-Weid stuff really strange. On merit, Weid should be in ahead of Brown atm, and that's what is happening. It won't take much for Brown to break into the side, it's a low bar, but he's not hit the bar yet.

Past form...current form....how much more current do want then Rd 7 & 8? I’ve simply asked you to remove the Carlton game from calculations as that is the one you keep referencing as to where Weid performed better than Brown. Based on our team structures when Jackson is in the side and both Brown and Weid have both had two games each without the other playing to put their case forward. I’ve asked you to compare those and you have chosen not to. I’m of the opinion based of the opinion that Brown did more in rounds 7 & 8 then Weids did in 10 & 11. So as for the anti Weid sentiment you are wrong, I think what you will find is what people are after is what you said earlier, and that is “we’ve waited so long to build a genuinely competitive culture and some want yo throw it out the window at first chance”. VFL form is one thing doing at the top is another. Brown has done more is his two games yet was dropped for his efforts.

 

[BW511 2,688]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:54 PM, Turner said:

agree to disagree ?, would be lucky to make their full strength side imo when dunkley, treloar, vandemeer, mclean, wood are fit

He’s had a fairly rapid fall from grace! 

[Vagg 2,439]

As per my comment in the Lingers thread, I'd suggest putting Harmes on to the wing to run with Mitch Robinson (who was close to BOG yesterday).  Think Harmes would be about our best match up on him.  Then, bring in Sparrow.  No other changes.

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

2 hours ago, Smokey said:

Individual stats are meaningless when we’re playing a role based team game.

For all we know, weed did exactly what was asked of him by the coaches. 
 

im not saying weed couldn’t be doing better right now, but the notion of dropping him for Brown who could hardly get a touch at Casey is insane to me. 

I mean, he dropped five marks. It’s safe to say he was not instructed to do that. 

I really don’t think we need to start making such excuses for our under-performers. There’s no way Sam would have been satisfied with his game on Friday, so we just have to hope that both he and BBB are doing all the necessary soul-searching it takes to find their form. 

[Smokey 4,389]

1 minute ago, Mel Bourne said:

I mean, he dropped five marks. It’s safe to say he was not instructed to do that. 

I really don’t think we need to start making such excuses for our under-performers. There’s no way Sam would have been satisfied with his game on Friday, so we just have to hope that both he and BBB are doing all the necessary soul-searching it takes to find their form. 

Sure, but on the other hand we’re 10-1. Something is working right. What’s more important, having every play rack up ‘x’ amount of stats each game or simply winning games. 

I’ll say it again as I think you missed it, I’m not defending Weids output right now and agree he could be doing a lot more. But BB is not the answer after struggling in the twos, it’s that simple. 

 

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

1 minute ago, Smokey said:

Sure, but on the other hand we’re 10-1. Something is working right. What’s more important, having every play rack up ‘x’ amount of stats each game or simply winning games. 

I’ll say it again as I think you missed it, I’m not defending Weids output right now and agree he could be doing a lot more. But BB is not the answer after struggling in the twos, it’s that simple. 

 

Yeah, the selectors have a real pickle here. Two key forwards, currently in a race to the bottom. It’s going to be very difficult to give one the necessary game-time and instil the necessary confidence, without neglecting the other.