37 minutes ago, Jaded said:

We have the highest rates of child vaccinations in the world. Inherently we are pro vaccines and science and for those who aren’t, you can trust the government is make it as difficult as possible. Think no jab no play. It will be incredibly difficult to live in Australia without a vaccine by this time next year. And so it should be. 
I am sorry if you don’t believe in science. Tough luck. Immunity is a community effort and we all need to do what we can to protect everyone, especially those who really can’t get vaccinated due to age or other medical conditions. 

Agreed. Large parts of Europe have made the call. Vax passports are in. If you want to be involved in society, then get vaxed like the rest of us. Even our Fed Gov has a passport system set up already. 

11 weeks until my wife and I get our second AZ jabs. Most of my friends are getting their first shots of Pfizer in the next two weeks. I reckon by the start of November most people I know will be fully vaxed.

Come 2022, as you say, it'll be the same as Euorpe. I'll be enjoying films and football again, and the unvaxed will be marching in the streets complaining.

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

There is indeed a very valid debate to be had around the morality of these sorts of decisions.

I will say, though, that for at least some of these examples you've cited, those actions are either criminal or at least capable of being punished by fines (e.g. not wearing a seatbelt or having a BAC over .05).

Very true, titan. 

The list of legal risky behaviour could go on for a long time, though. Not apples with apples re covid vax obviously, but still worthy of public medical care:

- climbing ladders aged above 50, big on the list of trauma presentation to hospitals. I know a GP who jokes that it should be illegal for men of this age to own ladders

- riding a push bike down a busy road

- rock fishing, 192 Oz deaths since 2004.

The Darwinian Awards are a classic for this.

It's human nature to take risks and sometimes make very bad choices. I know I've made a few dumb ones in my life (thanks tequila...)

IMO denying access to activities similar to Canada would work to get us to 80+%. Plus some financial incentives in one form or another, eg free maccas meal. Perhaps its compulsory in order to attend a workplace. 

Unfortunately, a lot of unvaxxed fence sitters need a reason beyond their health to get it done

 

Edited August 26, 20214 yr by Stiff Arm

10 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Very true, titan. 

The list of legal risky behaviour could go on for a long time, though. Not apples with apples re covid vax obviously, but still worthy of public medical care:

- climbing ladders aged above 50, big on the list of trauma presentation to hospitals. I know a GP who jokes that it should be illegal for men of this age to own ladders

- riding a push bike down a busy road

- rock fishing, 192 Oz deaths since 2004.

The Darwinian Awards are a classic for this.

It's human nature to take risks and sometimes make very bad choices. I know I've made a few dumb ones in my life (thanks tequila...)

IMO denying access to activities similar to Canada would work to get us to 80+%. Plus some financial incentives in one form or another, eg free maccas meal. Perhaps its compulsory in order to attend a workplace. 

Unfortunately, a lot of unvaxxed fence sitters need a reason beyond their health to get it done

 

good luck. they can't even get many critical healthcare workers vaxxed. ffs

23 minutes ago, A F said:

Come 2022, as you say, it'll be the same as Euorpe. I'll be enjoying films and football again, and the unvaxed will be marching in the streets complaining.

Except for those on ventilators in hospital, obviously.

22 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

good luck. they can't even get many critical healthcare workers vaxxed. ffs

True, daisycutter.

But the 'no vax, no trade work' policy in Western Sydney has worked to get more tradies vaxed. Soon there will be a bunch of aged care workers pooing their pants and joining the queue before the deadline.

A lot of western countries are plateauing out at around 60%, which isn't good enough.

Without knowing the stats, I reckon there would be a further 20-30% who are fence sitters or can't be bothered because 'covid wont affect me'. Give them an incentive beyond their health and it will change them.

I can't work without it, can't go to a concert or the footy, can't go to the pub/supermarket/place of worship/hairdresser/cafe. Plus if I get a shot I get a free big mac, or ticket in the lotto, or 3 paid hours off work!

Then there are the 5% hard core anti vaxxers. Maybe they should start their own independent country 🤔 😎

Edited August 26, 20214 yr by Stiff Arm

On 8/25/2021 at 10:43 AM, Stiff Arm said:

People make stupid choices on an all too regular basis, doesn’t mean we exclude them from accessing public health care (which their taxes also contribute towards).

Should we also restrict health care for those who fail to wear a seatbelt, or whose BAC is over .05, or swim outside the flags at the beach? Or, god forbid, play contact sports such as football? Of course I'm being a bit facetious with that one 

 

All good points.

However there a couple of interesting considerations with two of your examples.

Whilst we don't restrict health care for those who fail to wear a seatbelt, or whose BAC is over .05  an nor should we - we do apply very serious penalties.

Both are illegal, so whilst you can choose not to wear  seatbelt or drive when over .05, you will be charged with an offence and penalized if caught doing so. 

And in the event of driving over.05 there are a range of other possible non direct penalties.

If you crash your car when over the limit your insurance will not cover you, limiting your health treatment options and  exposing you to some pretty serious financial ram(pardon the pun)ifications. 

And if you hurt or kill someone whilst driving over the limit you will be charged with serious criminals offences. 

Could there be similar non direct ramifications for someone who got hospitalized because they chose not to get vaccinated? For example their employer might decide they are not going to give them sick leave.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

All good points.

However there a couple of interesting considerations with two of your examples.

Whilst we don't restrict health care for those who fail to wear a seatbelt, or whose BAC is over .05  an nor should we - we do apply very serious penalties.

Both are illegal, so whilst you can choose not to wear  seatbelt or drive when over .05, you will be charged with an offence and penalized if caught doing so. 

And in the event of driving over.05 there are a range of other possible non direct penalties.

If you crash your car when over the limit your insurance will not cover you, limiting your health treatment options and  exposing you to some pretty serious financial ram(pardon the pun)ifications. 

And if you hurt or kill someone whilst driving over the limit you will be charged with serious criminals offences. 

Could there be similar non direct ramifications for someone who got hospitalized because they chose not to get vaccinated? For example their employer might decide they are not going to give them sick leave.

Hey binman, 

Alternative list of legal examples in the next post I put up.

I just think that incentivising people to get the jab works better that denying them basic societal rights, such as public health care. Those who could be swayed may not think about requiring hospital treatment, especially if they are in 16-29 age bracket. But restrict their work (as opposed to leave entitlements), deny access to the pub and dangle a big mac in front of them... could change a lot of young people's minds!

Bloody hope so!

Edited August 26, 20214 yr by Stiff Arm

5 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Hey binman, 

Alternative list of legal examples in the next post I put up.

I just think that incentivising people to get the jab works better that denying them basic societal rights, such as public health care. Those who could be swayed may not think about requiring hospital treatment, especially if they are in 16-29 age bracket. But restrict their work (as opposed to leave entitlements), deny access to the pub and dangle a big mac in front of them... could change a lot of young people's minds!

Bloody hope so!

100% agree about incentives being more effective.

And I'm not suggesting we should, or even could, go down the legal route.

But we are certainly about to head into very murky areas in terms of Vax v non Vax - work place mandates are the obvious ones. But there is a million other less obvious ones.

On changing young people's minds. And some oldies like me, if they were clever they would pumping up things like the outdoor music festival summer circuit.

I go to golden plains every (non covid) year. Not much chance of social distancing there. Those sort of events will surely be double Vax only. 

So they should be telling you gunston, if you want to go to merideth, splendour, falls, rainbow serpent etc etc, get bloody vaxed.

And maybe even offer a discount to tickets to such events. Or a ticket guarantee. 

 

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Andrews ruled it out today without formally ruling it out.

I wish you were onto something though....

He only ruled out crowds...did he rule out the game being played to no crowd at the 'G'.

2 minutes ago, binman said:

100% agree about incentives being more effective.

And I'm not suggesting we should, or even could, go down the legal route.

But we are certainly about to head into very murky areas in terms of Vax v non Vax - work place mandates are the obvious ones. But there is a million other less obvious ones.

On changing young people's minds. And some oldies like me, if they were clever they would pumping up things like the outdoor music festival summer circuit.

I go to golden plains every (non covid) year. Not much chance of social distancing there. Those sort of events will surely be double Vax only. 

So they should be telling you gunston, if you want to go to merideth, splendour, falls, rainbow serpent etc etc, get bloody vaxed.

And maybe even offer a discount to tickets to such events. Or a ticket guarantee. 

 

Or dare I say it.... double vaxxed to get into an AFL venue!

I've had 2 x AZ so I'm all for it, once the vax has been made available to all.

We could have a 'Demonland Double Vax' section in the stands! Or maybe not... 🤔

30 minutes ago, rjay said:

He only ruled out crowds...did he rule out the game being played to no crowd at the 'G'.

A GF at the G with no crowd would be horrible

I have been told Nick Hind has visited a tier 2 site and has been refused entry to Tassie. He tested negative to a test.

Just heard it on the news as well.

Edited August 27, 20214 yr by drysdale demon
more information

3 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

I have been told Nick Hind has visited a tier 2 site and has been refused entry to Tassie. He tested negative to a test.

No team functions anywhere for any team.

15 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

I have been told Nick Hind has visited a tier 2 site and has been refused entry to Tassie. He tested negative to a test.

Just heard it on the news as well.

Yes, they had to leave him B-hind .... 

 

 

(Sorry)

How are the AFL players not lockeddown? This could end a team's season.

8 minutes ago, bingers said:

Yes, they had to leave him B-hind .... 

 

 

(Sorry)

@Demonstonewill be proud of you. 😁

Just reported 2 covid cases in WA...MCG here we come.

1 minute ago, rjay said:

Just reported 2 covid cases in WA...MCG here we come.

Hotel quarantine cases or community cases?

Why would any AFL player go out to a Shopping Centre during lockdown?

 

4 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Hotel quarantine cases or community cases?

NSW truck drivers...

More news to come, not sure of how far into the community yet...but there were close contacts.

https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/premier-mark-mcgowan-reveals-covid-19-positive-truck-drivers-entered-wa-from-sydney-ng-b881984503z

Edited August 27, 20214 yr by rjay

1 minute ago, rjay said:

NSW truck drivers...

More news to come, not sure of how far into the community yet...but there were close contacts.

Next question. Why are NSW truck drivers allowed anywhere?

 I understand goods need to get around the country but surely some kind of COVID safe transfer/handover at the borders can occur for essential goods to mitigate risk from high risk areas. 

 

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

NSW truck drivers...

More news to come, not sure of how far into the community yet...but there were close contacts.

https://thewest.com.au/news/coronavirus/premier-mark-mcgowan-reveals-covid-19-positive-truck-drivers-entered-wa-from-sydney-ng-b881984503z

 

8 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Next question. Why are NSW truck drivers allowed anywhere?

 I understand goods need to get around the country but surely some kind of COVID safe transfer/handover at the borders can occur for essential goods to mitigate risk from high risk areas. 

 

2 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Also travelled through SA...it's only a matter of time.

My money's still on an MCG GF to no crowd, strange as it will be.

20 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Why would any AFL player go out to a Shopping Centre during lockdown?

 

Easy to say in HindSight

😬

21 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

 

Also travelled through SA...it's only a matter of time.

My money's still on an MCG GF to no crowd, strange as it will be.

No issue if it’s to be at the MCG in front of nobody (even though it won’t be)

Whatever it takes to win a flag.