List Sizes to be Cut

[titan_uranus 24,983]

Couldn't find a thread on this elsewhere: mods, please put this in a more appropriate thread if there is one

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-close-to-list-size-cuts-as-end-of-trades-looms-20201112-p56dw9.html

Minimum list size 37, max list size 44, inclusive of rookies.

So that's a cut to the senior list by 2 and rookie list by 1.

Apparently the salary cap will drop by around 10% too.

[Pates 9,660]

If baffles me that the AFL didn’t decide/announce this prior to the trade period. How can clubs properly trade and negotiate when they didn’t know how many spots will be available?

[JTR 2,846]

1 minute ago, Pates said:

If baffles me that the AFL didn’t decide/announce this prior to the trade period. How can clubs properly trade and negotiate when they didn’t know how many spots will be available?

I'll assume this is a rhetorical question

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

Can someone do a summary of where that leaves us with number of uncontracted players yet to sign v spots on the list for draftees?  Pretty please :) 

[BigMacjnr 283]

2 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

Can someone do a summary of where that leaves us with number of uncontracted players yet to sign v spots on the list for draftees?  Pretty please :) 

@Lucifer's HeroYou are the resident expert on list matters...

[titan_uranus 24,983]

@Lucifer's Hero's thread is the go-to for this: 

 

[titan_uranus 24,983]

Further info from The Age:

The AFL have reduced the requirement that clubs take three selections at the draft to just one. Most clubs will make more than one pick but several clubs are considering adding one player from the total pool and then using the remaining points to put academy, father-son or NGA graduates on the list.

The second change is that clubs will be able to take selections into the national draft as if the primary list is still at 40. This is important as clubs have had to take as many picks into the draft as they had list spots available but the uncertainty around list sizes left them concerned about what they could do this season. Some clubs also wanted to potentially trade picks on the night so having an extra number would increase liquidity into the system.

[Sydee 4,400]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Further info from The Age:

The AFL have reduced the requirement that clubs take three selections at the draft to just one. Most clubs will make more than one pick but several clubs are considering adding one player from the total pool and then using the remaining points to put academy, father-son or NGA graduates on the list.

The second change is that clubs will be able to take selections into the national draft as if the primary list is still at 40. This is important as clubs have had to take as many picks into the draft as they had list spots available but the uncertainty around list sizes left them concerned about what they could do this season. Some clubs also wanted to potentially trade picks on the night so having an extra number would increase liquidity into the system.

Sorry if a stupid question but does this mean there is likely to be less kids picked up each year than we have seen previously?

if so would be good for the second tier comps but wonder whether it would slow there development as AFL ready players 

[The Chazz 4,077]

So with this decision being made, and looking at the players that we've had come in/out this trade period to date (Hannan, Preuss out, Brown in), how many list spots do we actually have to play with this year?

Trying to work out how many picks we currently have, but then with the talk on other threads about us trying to get in to the first round, do we have enough spots on our lists:enough current draft picks?  Or will this see us totally delist the likes of Oscar?

[spirit of norm smith 16,338]

I thought they’d cut to 42 so it means some players on the outer fringe do get retained.  44 means little change for Dees (45 in the 2020 squad). 

[Lucifers Hero 39,662]

Its interesting the AFL has asked clubs to decide how the 9% sal cap cut is split across the list.  Some clubs preferred it was mandated so that all players get the same cut.

While that seems fairest, the club could ask players with contracts written several years ago but are no longer in the best 22 (TMac, ANB, KK etc) to take a higher cut. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dee man 303]

The Demons website no longer differentiates between rookies and the senior list, but from my back-on-the-envelope calculations:

We had 45 on our list this season and have lost 6 players
- Bennell
- Preuss
- Hannan
- Wagner
- Wagner
- Dunkley

That leaves us with 39.

If we use 44 list spots, then we can take 5 selections at the draft (or 4 + 1 rookie/supplementary selection)
+ Pick 18
+ Pick 19
+ Pick 28
+ Pick 50
+ Pick 89

I have no idea whether we'll use all 44 list spots (salary cap might be an issue), but if that's our plan then I guess Mahoney has to decide whether each of Omac/Chandler/Bedford/Bradtke/Nietschke/Jordon/Brown are more valuable to us than pick 89/a rookie pick. If I were him, I wouldn't be making any more delistings but there's also a high likelihood this draft will be full of smokeys and maybe Jason Taylor has some up his sleeve.

[titan_uranus 24,983]

28 minutes ago, Dee man said:

The Demons website no longer differentiates between rookies and the senior list, but from my back-on-the-envelope calculations:

We had 45 on our list this season and have lost 6 players
- Bennell
- Preuss
- Hannan
- Wagner
- Wagner
- Dunkley

That leaves us with 39.

If we use 44 list spots, then we can take 5 selections at the draft (or 4 + 1 rookie/supplementary selection)
+ Pick 18
+ Pick 19
+ Pick 28
+ Pick 50
+ Pick 89

I have no idea whether we'll use all 44 list spots (salary cap might be an issue), but if that's our plan then I guess Mahoney has to decide whether each of Omac/Chandler/Bedford/Bradtke/Nietschke/Jordon/Brown are more valuable to us than pick 89/a rookie pick. If I were him, I wouldn't be making any more delistings but there's also a high likelihood this draft will be full of smokeys and maybe Jason Taylor has some up his sleeve.

Brown takes one of those spots so it's currently only four.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

We had 6 Category A rookies

Bennell, C. Wagner, Dunkley, Brown, Chandler and Lockhart plus one Category B Rookie, Bradtke.

My reading is that we will be able to keep our senior list at 38, reduce our Category A rookies to 4 instead of 6 and keep Bradtke as 1 of a maximum two Category B rookies (previously 3).

[DubDee 25,712]

It’s a disgrace the AFL did not announce this a month ago. Blokes futures are on the line. Careers could be over and during a pandemic too. 

A bloke like Mitch Brown probably thought he’d done enough in his last game to get a contract. 2 months later, he is in big trouble 

[Lucifers Hero 39,662]

For the last two years we have had fewer than the allowed 40 senior players but made max use of Rookies.

The first $80k of a rookie salary is not included in the sal cap.  This year we had 6 'A' rookies; a sal cap buffer of $480K (and 38 senior players). 

So rookies are quite attractive for sal cap.  Its a shame the AFL has cut them back so far.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero