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Farewell Mitch Hannan

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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5 hours ago, Nascent said:

My guess is the trade will be Hannan + 68 for a future 3rd pick.

68 should come into the 50's and provide the doggies with more points this year for their academy selection while a future 3rd gives us trading flexibility as replacing that future 3rd round pick we traded to the lions allows us to trade our future first if we so wish.

Agree. Likely scenario is probably fair outcome.  

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    4 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

    AF scores are not a sound basis for comparison particularly when they are playing different roles.

    Totally disagree. You offer no reason except to say that a player plays in different positions - so what ?  A player is picked supposedly on his ability for a given position on a given day. Professionals are just that and need to perform otherwise they should be dropped and delisted.

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    Left field option. ask for Matt Suckling in return. i understand Suckling is a bit older, and soft. but he's experienced and a great kick and offers something we lack. 

    Suckling is currently out of contract and i feel like he's more valuable to us than the player we might otherwise pick for a late pick in exchange for Hannan 

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    7 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

    Left field option. ask for Matt Suckling in return. i understand Suckling is a bit older, and soft. but he's experienced and a great kick and offers something we lack. 

    Suckling is currently out of contract and i feel like he's more valuable to us than the player we might otherwise pick for a late pick in exchange for Hannan 

    any draft picks we bring in will be used in a package to shift up the order as much as possible, i fully expect us to have a first round pick this season

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    54 minutes ago, Ohio USA - David said:

    Totally disagree. You offer no reason except to say that a player plays in different positions - so what ?  A player is picked supposedly on his ability for a given position on a given day. Professionals are just that and need to perform otherwise they should be dropped and delisted.

    Hunt in the fwd line takes one mark, kicks one goal = 10 AF points

    Smith in defence makes 10 spoils, holds his opponent to 0 possesions = 0 AF points

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    1 hour ago, Ohio USA - David said:

    Totally disagree. You offer no reason except to say that a player plays in different positions - so what ?  A player is picked supposedly on his ability for a given position on a given day. Professionals are just that and need to perform otherwise they should be dropped and delisted.

    Dreamteam (AF) points in 2020:

    Harris Andrews - All Australian 2020: AF = 44.9 per game.

    James Harmes - Outside MFC top 20 B&F = 44.7 per game.

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    8 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    Dreamteam (AF) points in 2020:

    Harris Andrews - All Australian 2020: AF = 44.9 per game.

    James Harmes - Outside MFC top 20 B&F = 44.7 per game.

    Tom Hawkins - All Australian FF 2020 AF = 70.9 per game

    AF points scoring is stacked against defensive defenders.

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    19 hours ago, 58er said:

    Tracy 14 you said no Hunt or Hannan on 14/10. 
    then said Vanders  Smith  Fritsch Melky could all play HForward role 

    I am saying Fritsch 's talent is far better than Smiths and the rest are in decline.

    Plus retain Hunt who can kick multiple goals from HF and I think will improve in 2021.

    Smith should be delisted.  Fritsch is our HFF and the other for our rotating mids.

    Hunt is an over the back goal kicker, he will not get any better, he is basically the same mould as Hannan. 1 in 4 player. Good one week missing the next 3

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    12 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

    Dreamteam (AF) points in 2020:

    Harris Andrews - All Australian 2020: AF = 44.9 per game.

    James Harmes - Outside MFC top 20 B&F = 44.7 per game.

    So, I do not understand your point ?  Why are we changing the subject to include Harmes who is a good solid player and one who should be saved from the axe at the MFC... I don't get it ??

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    8 hours ago, Travy14 said:

    Smith should be delisted.  Fritsch is our HFF and the other for our rotating mids.

    Hunt is an over the back goal kicker, he will not get any better, he is basically the same mould as Hannan. 1 in 4 player. Good one week missing the next 3

    Hunt kicked 10 goals in 6 games including two key weeks where his goals v Blues and Bombers were crucial to getting us over the line. His goal rate was #1 in the team for 2020.   His goals were certainly not over the back goals.  In fact, he is one of the few who actually want to kick a goal and not handball. Deserved a two year extension and perhaps a fair-go in selections.  By comparison, Melksham kicked 15 goals from 17 games and got picked each week despite being out of form and not contributing.  

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    6 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

    rubbish

    I've played AFL Fantasy reasonably seriously for 10 years.

    The way stats are converted to AF points significantly limits the score of defensive defenders compared with other on field roles.  Thus the AA FF scored 70.9 average whereas the AA FB scored 44.9 average.

    The only possible comparison using AF points is of players playing the same role and then it's a blunt instrument only really any good for winning Fantasy.

    Have you ever played it? Here's how AF points are calculated:

    https://fantasy.afl.com.au/classic/help/official-rules

    Edited by Pollyanna

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    33 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

    I've played AFL Fantasy reasonably seriously for 10 years.

    The way stats are converted to AF points significantly limits the score of defensive defenders compared with other on field roles.  Thus the AA FF scored 70.9 average whereas the AA FB scored 44.9 average.

    The only possible comparison using AF points is of players playing the same role and then it's a blunt instrument only really any good for winning Fantasy.

    Have you ever played it? Here's how AF points are calculated:

    https://fantasy.afl.com.au/classic/help/official-rules

    You are entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree with your analogy... I stand by my view. Melksham is not a player that will play a role into 2021 regrettably due to his age and form this year. Hunt and Harmes being younger and proving over 2020 with good AF scores that they have a future and because they are younger than the lovable Melks.

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    36 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

    I've played AFL Fantasy reasonably seriously for 10 years.

    The way stats are converted to AF points significantly limits the score of defensive defenders compared with other on field roles.  Thus the AA FF scored 70.9 average whereas the AA FB scored 44.9 average.

    The only possible comparison using AF points is of players playing the same role and then it's a blunt instrument only really any good for winning Fantasy.

    Have you ever played it? Here's how AF points are calculated:

    https://fantasy.afl.com.au/classic/help/official-rules

    Supercoach is much better for key backs, as they get additional points for intercept marks.

    Full backs though who only spoil still won't score well.

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    On 11/9/2020 at 2:40 AM, Ohio USA - David said:

    Smith should be delisted. 

    His AF scores in 2020 were : (by round) 17,20,20,14,28,26,26, for a total of 151

    Hunts AF scores in 2020 were : (By round ) 54,27,30,15,36,53, for a total of 215  for less games.  

    Frankly Smith is turning into another O Mc and offers very little to the Team structure of the future

     

    15 minutes ago, Ohio USA - David said:

    You are entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree with your analogy... I stand by my view. Melksham is not a player that will play a role into 2021 regrettably due to his age and form this year. Hunt and Harmes being younger and proving over 2020 with good AF scores that they have a future and because they are younger than the lovable Melks.

     You compared Smith and Hunt AF points. Not Melksham.

    I've genuinely tried to help you.

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    • Like 2

    On topic.  Losing Hannan is not a big blow as we have plenty of mid sized half forwards. In fact we were oversupplied last year. 
     

    Melksham, Vandenburg, Hunt, Bennell, Hannan and Dunkley. Fritsch plays more of a 3rd tall forward but can move up to half forward more if needs. With the departure of Bennell, Hannan & Dunkley it allows us to trim the list and to look at other areas to concentrate on. ie. Wing/half back runners. 

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    8 hours ago, Ohio USA - David said:

    So, I do not understand your point ?  Why are we changing the subject to include Harmes who is a good solid player and one who should be saved from the axe at the MFC... I don't get it ??

    Like Pollyanna, I'm trying to help you understand that Dreamteam (AF) points are not very effective to compare players who play different positions and roles. 

    To use Ohio examples, it's like saying that Odell Beckham Jr is terrible because he has a bad Quarterback Rating. Or that Shane Beiber is terrible because he doesn't hit home runs. You need to use the the right tools for the job, and Dreamteam (AF) points are not a good way to measure these things.

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    more possessions + more goals = higher fantasy points

    it's primarily geared around high-possession mids and goalscorers

    supercoach is SLIGHTLY more measured - it accounts for effectively of possessions, as supercoach points = champion data ranking points

    but they're both still in favour of mids and goalscorers etc.

    it's not a fair way to measure a player's actual value, particularly for low-possession negating defenders 

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    2 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

    Like Pollyanna, I'm trying to help you understand that Dreamteam (AF) points are not very effective to compare players who play different positions and roles. 

    Couldn't agree more and I'd add that judging players only on what you can see via the broadcast is also limited. You get to see 'what' they're doing but not always the 'why'. You also miss a lot of the hard work that goes into defensive patterns etc.

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    32 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

    On topic.  Losing Hannan is not a big blow as we have plenty of mid sized half forwards. In fact we were oversupplied last year. 
     

    Melksham, Vandenburg, Hunt, Bennell, Hannan and Dunkley. Fritsch plays more of a 3rd tall forward but can move up to half forward more if needs. With the departure of Bennell, Hannan & Dunkley it allows us to trim the list and to look at other areas to concentrate on. ie. Wing/half back runners. 

    And maybe allow Harmes to play more rotation through midfield-half fwd-interchange. 

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    22 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

    Left field option. ask for Matt Suckling in return. i understand Suckling is a bit older, and soft. but he's experienced and a great kick and offers something we lack. 

    Suckling is currently out of contract and i feel like he's more valuable to us than the player we might otherwise pick for a late pick in exchange for Hannan 

    Please no.... I know he is a great kick but he so inconsistent and soft as you say 

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    2 hours ago, Action Jackson said:

    Supercoach is much better for key backs, as they get additional points for intercept marks.

    Full backs though who only spoil still won't score well.

    I prefer AFL Fantasy objective stats related scoring for Fantasy rather than some obscure algorithm.  Fantasy scores are not about rating players.

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    Done deal. Off to the Dogs for a future 3rd rounder.

     

    Edited by Lord Nev

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