From a cultural perspective what irks me is that we've cohabited with a team that has arguably the best culture across the footballing codes - the Melbourne Storm. How have we not been able to benefit from observing and adopting their standards?

I am a veteran barracker and supporter and remember that our most successful times were when we played for the jumper.

Now apparently I am classed as a " fan" and a member and players seem to play for a wage.

A good culture is a winning culture and losing hurts.

In this age it is not possible but a bad loss meant a light paypacket whereas winning could be lucrative.

Just saying..

1 minute ago, loges said:

And it's a long way from where we were at the end of 2018........ WHY?

In my opinion he got rewarded too soon after a very bad Preliminary Final Loss...

But i am sure there are other problems, that i am not privvy too

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

In my opinion he got rewarded too soon after a very bad Preliminary Final Loss...

But i am sure there are other problems, that i am not privvy too

For me and I've posted this before, the number of players that have gone backwards since 2018 is staggering.

The players looked mentally and physically fatigued. Combine that with being unable to unlock a Swans defence with two thirds of the team in their D50 and you get that result. Richmond had the same problem, by the way — being unable to score against Sydney. Are they “mentally weak”?

It’s not excusable but it’s explainable. We’re not a great team this year. We’re a team that’s on the fringes of the 8 that can challenge if we get a run on. That’s who we are.

All this simplistic guff about club DNA and giving Hodgey a call as some kind of DNA tonic is just that. Simplistic guff.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by P-man

Just now, loges said:

For me and I've posted this before, the number of players that have gone backwards since 2018 is staggering.

18th in Tackles says it all mate. The Coaches are not doing their jobs. 
 

2 minutes ago, P-man said:

 

It’s not excusable but it’s explainable. We’re not a great team this year. We’re a team that’s on the fringes of the 8 that can challenge if we get a run on. That’s who we are.

 

Yes and that is what we have been for Decades. That is the point

It was a football crime to play an ageing player on a 4 day break, who is obviously past it, injured, slow and plays with zero defensive pressure in a must win game. This is an old boys club for one particular player. Selections at this club is done by idiots.

22 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Fail to see what the relevance EO?

Ok ok! You’re the second person to call it.

Im originally from down the road.

It was a flippant comment - you’re 100% it has no baring!

*Must remember the literalism of people who read posts. 

5 hours ago, joeboy said:

Normally I’d agree with your response to the three ‘experts’ but in reality, after watching the aforementioned discussion, I think they nailed it on the head.

They used words like fickle, untrustworthy, flaky, mentally weak, and actually named Fritsch, and Salem, as prime examples, and the playing of an obviously injured Jones against Sydney as further evidence 

i personally had no argument with their cases

Sadly I have to agree with you joeboy, spot on. 

15 minutes ago, P-man said:

The players looked mentally and physically fatigued. Combine that with being unable to unlock a Swans defence with two thirds of the team in their D50 and you get that result. Richmond had the same problem, by the way — being unable to score against Sydney. Are they “mentally weak”?

It’s not excusable but it’s explainable. We’re not a great team this year. We’re a team that’s on the fringes of the 8 that can challenge if we get a run on. That’s who we are.

All this simplistic guff about club DNA and giving Hodgey a call as some kind of DNA tonic is just that. Simplistic guff.

So what is your solution? 

19 minutes ago, loges said:

For me and I've posted this before, the number of players that have gone backwards since 2018 is staggering.

Or did they just have a year out in 2018? 

When you are talking culture and DNA of the club, this isn't a year by year thing it is who you are.  2018 was an opportunity to build into a period of sustained success, the facts are like we have for the past 60 years we fall back to losing.  Winning is hard no question, to be a winning side over a long period is extremely hard.  I will guarantee you Hawthorn won't be down the bottom half of the ladder for long, they will not accept this and put the right measures in place to fix. 

Good clubs don't accept losing, we do, winning is a celebration  it isn't the norm, 2018 should have been the fire to ignite 2019 losing the way we did and almost getting there, 2019 should not have happened the way it did.  The fact is our club sits back listens to everyone on how good we are and then we just go back to the norm which is taking the easy option of losing.  

We had a period of Jackson and Roos, we could feel the club was changing, strong leaders.  The Pert appointment was an issue at the time,  from what we read Jackson wasn't onboard with this call.  Would love to have a dinner with Jackson to get his honest opinion on our club.

7 minutes ago, america de cali said:

It was a football crime to play an ageing player on a 4 day break, who is obviously past it, injured, slow and plays with zero defensive pressure in a must win game. This is an old boys club for one particular player. Selections at this club is done by idiots.

Season on the line and this happens....

1 minute ago, old dee said:

So what is your solution? 

Practical things. Not pie in the sky things. Continued list improvement. I’ve mentioned in other threads that a new forwards coach wouldn’t hurt. Fixing up our deplorable stoppage work which should not be as poor as it is at present.

There are far better footballing brains than mine on here to ask that question. I just know that Hodgey ain’t the answer.

Let’s think about the logic around the notion of

If we lose = we therefore are accepting of losing = we don’t have a strong culture.

then build that standpoint  in to the reality of competing against clubs with better and at times fewer resources than us -  week in week out.

it is a totally flawed argument. 

1 minute ago, P-man said:

Practical things. Not pie in the sky things. Continued list improvement. I’ve mentioned in other threads that a new forwards coach wouldn’t hurt. Fixing up our deplorable stoppage work which should not be as poor as it is at present.

There are far better footballing brains than mine on here to ask that question. I just know that Hodgey ain’t the answer.

I think your first item is the key one, our list is not as flash as a lot assume. E.g. we have one KFP player who is good but will Never be a champion. 

2 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

18th for tackles is 360 degrees from what Roos had laid down in the foundations of playing both ways!

Sad isn't it.

Roos' approach was to teach players the foundations in sequence:  2014 - defence,  2015 - contest, 2016 - attack.

In 2017 and 2018 that was turned on its head to predominately 'contest' and 'attack' as shown in the 'numbers at the ball, ballistic, play on at all costs game plan' with an 'agressive zone' defence that regularly leaked goals 'out the back'.  The 'defence' part had been relegated to a distant third.  It got us to a prelim but the foundations were shaky.

2019 was a mess and best forgotten. 

Now in 2020 the coach is trying to re establish the 'defence' foundation.  It works sometimes and not others.  Hard to undo the programming of young players that were taught to attack at all costs.  So when the pressure is on they revert to their 'basic' programming of ballistic paly. 

In the process of the new 'defence' players have forgotten how to 'contest'.  Our defence is not yet up to scratch.  We are 18th in tackles for a team having 'contested football' as its mantra!!  We can attack in a 'ballistic' but not an effective way.  God give me strength!  The foundations are a bit all over the shop.

Hopefully, one day we can find the balance of what Roos' started: defence, contest, attack.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

Or did they just have a year out in 2018? 

The side was quite young, should be still improving whether they had a year out or not.

4 minutes ago, loges said:

The side was quite young, should be still improving whether they had a year out or not.

 

4 minutes ago, loges said:

The side was quite young, should be still improving whether they had a year out or not.

A bloke called Hogan left, he kicked nearly 50 goals in about 16 games. The forward line has never been the same since. Without his goals some of the young guys of 2018 have been shown up, they where riding on his 50 goals coat tails. Tmac got injured and has never been the same since, we simply don’t have that good of a list. 

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by old dee

well it's all true. we're just so slow. I think lack of speed, a severe lack that is, can make us look worse in the efforts stakes.

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sad isn't it.

Roos' approach was to teach players the foundations in sequence:  2014 - defence,  2015 - contest, 2016 - attack.

In 2017 and 2018 that was turned on its head to predominately 'contest' and 'attack' as shown in the 'numbers at the ball, ballistic, play on at all costs game plan' with an 'agressive zone' defence that regularly leaked goals 'out the back'.  The 'defence' part had been relegated to a distant third.  It got us to a prelim but the foundations were shaky.

2019 was a mess and best forgotten. 

Now in 2020 the coach is trying to re establish the 'defence' foundation.  It works sometimes and not others.  Hard to undo the programming of young players that were taught to attack at all costs.  So when the pressure is on they revert to their 'basic' programming of ballistic paly. 

In the process of the new 'defence' players have forgotten how to 'contest'.  18th in tackles for a team having 'contested football' as its mantra!!  God give me strength!

Hopefully, one day we can find the balance of what Roos' started: defence, contest, attack.

So what has changed LH? From the above it would appear the FD.

9 minutes ago, P-man said:

Practical things. Not pie in the sky things. Continued list improvement. I’ve mentioned in other threads that a new forwards coach wouldn’t hurt. Fixing up our deplorable stoppage work which should not be as poor as it is at present.

There are far better footballing brains than mine on here to ask that question. I just know that Hodgey ain’t the answer.

Getting someone who actually was a leader throughout his career and did wonders for Brisbane in short stint is not practical? We seem pretty devoid of this thing called leadership ....I think we need tangibles but Luke Hodge would be a great get for leadership/tactics/smarts...probably good enough to be our kicking coach on the side too.  Is there a downside to trying someone like this??

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

So what has changed LH? From the above it would appear the FD.

No argument from me on that one OD. 

For several years I have said our Line Assistant coaches don't have the experience at AFL level or in the lines they are trying to coach. 

Like the senior coach they are learning on the job, so to speak.  A club can afford one or two of those but not a complete coaching panel.

And the FD person that hasn't changed that should have long ago is the GM, Football. 

We are not all that different to Richmond in a lot of ways....older article but i think this type honesty is what we need to start.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/mindfulness-was-a-key-factor-in-richmonds-grand-final-victory-20171002-gysjwv.html