Game plans, tactics and all that jazz

[Engorged Onion 10,127]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

The thing that could be our undoing is that even if we are in games and the system is holding up, the losses are creating pressure on our mental resilience. We have a long, long history of being fragile between the ears and you can see that in the way a few guys are playing. They have retreated into their shells and any confidence that we established between rounds 1-13 has been completely erased.

Hi @BW511. I feel as though you are putting your own supporters narrative onto the players. I disagree quite strongly.

As one example - if there were resilience issues, then there is no way we would get back within 4 points.

In 4 and half months, we've lost 2 games by under 4 straight kicks (one a quarter) 

We've lost one by an umpiring decision

This is not the Melbourne of old, we don't get blown out of the water, we may not be perfect however.

 

Your confidence may be erased, and it's probably not the players experience that theirs is erased either.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Engorged Onion

[BW511 2,569]

22 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd be interested to hear who you're referring to here? If it's McDonald, I thought he showed some good leadership at the start of the third. Took a great contested mark and then converted, unlike most of his team mates. It sparked a comeback. 

I agree he's not having the same influence and it's probably a confidence thing, but I'm not sure mental fragility has been our undoing. I think clearly tiredness has. It obviously impacts on adherence to structures, concentration across 4 quarters and goal kicking accuracy.

The confidence thing was referring to the midfield, I think whilst they are flat from probable loads, they are not creating play like they were. Oliver is back to getting lots of the ball which is amounting to not as much as it was early season, Trac is well down and trying too hard to make up for it. Langdon isn't hitting up the simple targets he was earlier in the year. Max seems to be in a world of his own with his ruckwork and decision making - his sporadic thumping of the ball seem like hail mary's

Edited July 26, 2021 by BW511

[BW511 2,569]

2 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Hi @BW511. I feel as though you are putting your own supporters narrative onto the players. I disagree quite strongly.

As one example - if there were resilience issues, then there is no way we would get back within 4 points.

In 4 and half months, we've lost 2 games by under 4 straight kicks (one a quarter) 

We've lost one by an umpiring decision

This is not the Melbourne of old, we don't get blown out of the water, we may not be perfect however.

 

Your confidence may be erased, and it's probably not the players experience that theirs is erased either.

Could well be.

Although I think the way we are setting up and defending is making it very hard for a team to blow us out of the water, our games aren't high scoring affairs and that is by design. We got within 4 points, but we were comfortably beaten all night.

I understand that we have eliminated the blowouts, however we've lost 3 of the past 6 games and escaped with a draw in another, the margin doesn't change the result

[drdrake 3,119]

We continue to push an out number into the midfield, like most sides but what I noticed on the weekend we kept adding pushing more forwards into there to get this out number.  We all know ANB as soon as the ball is bounced he becomes a midfielder, we saw on Saturday that we often pushed Spargo and Pickett into this role as well really leaving a big out number in our forward half.

This works well if you can control the footy once you get it, we can't.  The patches of play we were able to run out using our numbers and keep the footy often lead to Brown or Fritsch getting on the end of it.

We had a ruck on the weekend winning every tap with ease for us to lose the clearances is a real concern.  This is an ongoing issue that we don't seem to be able to address.

[Adam The God 29,360]

14 minutes ago, BW511 said:

The confidence thing was referring to the midfield, I think whilst they are flat from probable loads, they are not creating play like they were. Oliver is back to getting lots of the ball which is amounting to not as much as it was early season, Trac is well down and trying too hard to make up for it. Langdon isn't hitting up the simple targets he was earlier in the year. Max seems to be in a world of his own with his ruckwork and decision making - his sporadic thumping of the ball go against the game plan we are trying to employ.

I'm not sure we can know what we're trying to do from clearances with Max's thumping as we're not in the inner sanctum.

It sounds like you're saying the midfield is tired, not lacking in confidence. As for Oliver's ball use, I think aside from the Collingwood and GWS games he's been consistently damaging and territory taking with his kicking. That superb pass to Brown the other night was a perfect example. Brown then missed from directly in front 30m out. Not Oliver's fault.

I've always thought Oliver has been marked harshly, but this year IMO he's been a model of consistency except for those two aforementioned games.

As for Langdon, he looks exhausted. It's also telling that the three guys you first mention have played 90% TOG consistently all year. They look tired to me.

Edited July 26, 2021 by A F

[binman 41,948]

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

 

1. Goal kicking accuracy is a big problem, it's always been a problem.

2. I can't see this changing as we are attacking in the most defensive way possible, through the pockets.

3. It may be possible to have 1 or 2 really good goal kicking days, but because we create a lot of low percentage shots we are more likely to falter.

4. The midfield group is not even close to being in sync and I strongly oppose the idea of deliberately giving up centre clearances and relying on Lever, May and Petty controlling the air to stem the tide. I think it's a high risk tactic when the team most likely to be waiting in the GF has Hawkins, Cameron and Rohan. Those 3 will comfortably halve contests, at the very minimum, in a final.

 

1.  100%.

I'd add our overall kicking skills are a big, big problem. And an extremely hard one to fix. I hope that for the next 2-3 years that in their drafting and trading their number one KPI is elite kicking skills. I have confidence they will, given Bowey, Laurie and Rosman are all really good kicks. And Declase looks, dare i say it, de classy kick. 

2. Disagree.

As i noted above, when we are up and about, we generate a lot of our scoring through running in waves from half back. This often results in shots on goals from 30 odd meters in the corridor and/or where we are running towards, or into an open goal square. Which obviously improves our accuracy.

Takes these out of the equation, as has largely been the case for the last 5 weeks and our inaccuracy goes up.

But when are not running it down the ground in waves, or we are kicking it from a stoppage or free etc, i reckon we will continue to kick to the pockets. 

When we are on (ie applying forward half pressure, pushing our defensive wall high, stopping the switch and winning contest is and ground ball inside 50) this tactic increases our volume of shots on goals as trap it inside 50, and if we can't we win reentries and therefore get more shots on goals.  

Added to that it is the fact (when on) we make it hard for teams to clear their back half from kick outs after points as everyone has time to set up. 

Funnily enough we did go more central a bit more on Saturday night i thought, perhaps becuase of the rain. But the problem was they often won the ground ball and when they did it was in the corridor. 

I do wonder if come finals they might tweak the risk reward meter and maybe kick a few more to the hot spots at different times as a surprise tactic.   

3. See above 

4. Agree the mids are not in sync ATM. But don't agree we are deliberately giving up centre clearances. We're not.

We are simply trying to increase the likelihood of scoring from any clearance we do win and so set up in a way that supports this.

The key to making this approach viable is having a defensive system (which includes the pressure on the player kicking inside 50)  that mitigates the risk of losing clearances . Sure Hawkins etc will halve most contests, but when on we win more of the ensuing contests than the opposition. Just as we did when we played the lions with their potent tall forward line.

We don't want to lose clearances, but are prepared to risk doing so. Any goals we score from intercepts and rebounding from half back are a bonus that are factored into the overall risk reward assessment of our strategy. 

I have little doubt Goody will continue to pursue these strategies, perhaps with some tweaks or tactical surprises (that he is unlikely to reveal tile finals), but it is how we play. One person's stubbornness is another's confidence in their system.

This is the way.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by binman

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

Our backline has been our shining light all season, but I think it needs a tweak right now. We're fantastic when the ball is kicked in high, either marking or spoiling and forcing a stoppage. However, we're not great when the ball comes in quick and goes to ground, and I think other teams have been working on getting the ball away from Lever/May and don't care if it goes towards one of their players or hits the ground to become more of a chaos ball. All our backs - Lever, May, Petty, Hibbo and Rivers are better at marking than when they need to run onto the ball on the ground. I think we need Bowey or Lockhart in there to try and force a contest or stoppage.

We once again had more marks inside 50 - and yes conversion is probably our biggest issue - but it shows that teams are still able to score against us when they aren't marking. Stoppage goals can happen, and that's on the midfield as much as the defenders, but  those goals we give up when it's the defenders vs forwards seem to me to be increasing and cost us a few goals a game.

[640MD 3,320]

Thanks to all, really like this thread makes me sound smart when I repeat some of it.

Really thought we fumbled the ball,  no clean pick up, I do think the wet helped them in that regard, and we looked a little tired ,  in that I cannot see any or much enthusiasm when going for the ball. Some players just looked down in that respect.

Got excited when we got to 4 points and thought we were a chance, but then those last few goals by the dogs were very deflating.

I have not re looked at that last quarter, cannot remember how they got the goals, Hannon just stood there and marked I remember, were we just done for the evening.

Really do like this, no abuse, no angst, and not much outright dislike for individual players. Just discussion, almost as good as the banana thread.    Go Dees

[binman 41,948]

20 hours ago, A F said:

I think we need to seriously rejig our midfield.

Why are we persisting with JJ at the moment? I’m not sure how many CBAs he had, but I don’t recall him in there. As for around the ground, he didn’t really seem to attend stoppage. He effectively played the Sparrow half forward role, but looked fumbly and tired. JJ is one of my favourites and his tackling in stoppage and around the ground, as well as his cleanness, was IMV a key reason why our midfield defended so well in the first half of the season. 

Give JJ the week or two off and get him fresh for the last few weeks prior to finals. Bring in Sparrow and reward his good form this year. 

I’d keep Gus on the wing with Langdon, but I’d keep Viney as a permanent forward. He can attend stoppage if it’s inside 50, otherwise he should play as a pressure “speed forward”. He’s dangerous around goal with his attack on the ball carrier, it protects his foot for finals (if we want to revert to Viney as a mid, which could well work in finals) and enables JJ to take his place as the defensive mid.

Harmes isn’t playing brilliantly, but I prefer him in our midfield to Viney, providing he remembers he’s not Dustin Martin. Take the right option.

I think we use JJ and Harmes as our defensive mids and rotate them forward and to the bench. They wouldn't be strictly defensive of course, because both can get it on the outside too and attack from stoppage.

Petracca needs to play somewhere between 80% mid, 20% forward IMV. We just don't have the midfield depth to leave it all to Clarry. Speaking of which, Oliver should be in there just about every time. I’d also like to see us use Kozzy more often as an attacking mid from stoppages. And as much as it pains me to say it given how he treated MFC supporters in Sydney last year, and frankly his bruise free form, I think, as you intimate, we need to find a way of getting Melksham’s ball use into the team, so I’d add him very occasionally to centre stoppages as well if we can find a place for him in the team. Who for though???

So centre bounce mids would be Oliver, Petracca, Harmes, JJ, Kozzy and Melksham. Viney should attend forward stoppages as an inside slider or pure defensive mid and Gus should attend defensive stoppages as a width receiver or ground ball get player. 

Anyone feeling any of this?

Short answer is i don't think we should change our set up much.

Some tweaks perhaps. And one i would consider is Meksham in an and playing some mid time. Perhaps at the expense of Harmes.

I have always liked the idea of Viney as defensive forward, but i think it is easy to under rate his importance to our set up as a defensive mid. His tackle numbers and pressure is going up each week and come finals his heat around the ball will be critical.

I was calling for them to rotate resting the young guns (and anyone else who needed a chop out) through the bye phase, but they have clearly made the  decision to not rest players.

The only time they have 'managed' anyone this season is Salem. And then only for a week. They haven't even taken the opportunity to give injured players extra recovery time eg bringing may, fritter and Viney back in ASAP. 

They seem to be using game time as tool to manage loads given the fluctuation in game time for our young players (many of who are only in the 50s and low 60s TOG percentage range) 

Continuity and consistency is obviously an important concept for goody and his team of coaches. Makes sense in such system, role focused team. Particularly one with 5 young players who have played less than 40 odd games and are in our best 22. They have  lot to learn in a short time.

Agree JJ is looking very tired but i'm sure he'll come good. And when he does he can play the same role he did early in the season - an outside players, who can can also win contest, who helps with our transition.  

And given he spent a good block of games replacing Viney, can be thrown into he midfield mix when required and with confidence. 

Not resting players is a calculated gamble. The price we've paid is the loses against Pies and GWs and the draw against the hawks i reckon. And possibly the loss against the dogs.

If we don't make top four it will be gamble we have lost.

If we do make top four, the reward should be a team that is fit, fresh and better able to run out games than the teams we play.

Edited July 26, 2021 by binman

[Adam The God 29,360]

38 minutes ago, binman said:

Short answer is i don't think we should change our set up much.

Some tweaks perhaps. And one i would consider is Meksham in an and playing some mid time. Perhaps at the expense of Harmes.

I have always liked the idea of Viney as defensive forward, but i think it is easy to under rate his importance to our set up as a defensive mid. His tackle numbers and pressure is going up each week and come finals his heat around the ball will be critical.

I was calling for them to rotate resting the young guns (and anyone else who needed a chop out) through the bye phase, but they have clearly made the  decision to not rest players.

The only time they have 'managed' anyone this season is Salem. And then only for a week. They haven't even taken the opportunity to give injured players extra recovery time eg bringing may, fritter and Viney back in ASAP. 

They seem to be using game time as tool to manage loads given the fluctuation in game time for our young players (many of who are only in the 50s and low 60s TOG percentage range) 

Continuity and consistency is obviously an important concept for goody and his team of coaches. Makes sense in such system, role focused team. Particularly one with 5 young players who have played less than 40 odd games and are in our best 22. They have  lot to learn in a short time.

Agree JJ is looking very tired but i'm sure he'll come good. And when he does he can play the same role he did early in the season - an outside players, who can can also win contest, who helps with our transition.  

And given he spent a good block of games replacing Viney, can be thrown into he midfield mix when required and with confidence. 

Not resting players is a calculated gamble. The price we've paid is the loses against Pies and GWs and the draw against the hawks i reckon. And possibly the loss against the dogs.

If we don't make top four it will be gamble we have lost.

If we do make top four, the reward should be a team that is fit, fresh and better able to run out games than the teams we play.

I've watched Viney carefully at stoppages for essentially the last year, since @Axis of Bob wrote that brilliant post about our stoppage set ups and Viney'sdefensive importance to them, but at this stage I just have to completely disagree. He ball chases. He doesn't trust his team mates to tackle and our midfield is noticeably unbalanced when he's in there. I'd even argue our dip in form as a team has coincided with his return. That's a loads things, but his return has also totally ruined whatever midfield synergy we'd developed over so many successful weeks.

I'd take a fresh JJ over Viney as defensive midfielder just about every day of the week. JJ is a brilliant tackler, but is also beautifully clean below his feet and makes good decisions by hand and foot. He also stays within his wheelhouse and doesn't play hero.

Viney forward on the other hand, I believe, is a completely different proposition. He overpowers small to medium defenders, even key position players at ground level, and makes good decisions, and his kicking shortcomings (mostly penetration) aren't an issue when he plays high half forward and deep forward 50.

I wouldn't rule Jack out of the midfield necessarily in a final, particularly in bursts, but during the regular season I think he can add much more pressure to our forward half (to compliment Kozzy) without creating this bees to the honeypot effect in the midfield and leaving us exposed going the other way.

Anyway, each to their own and I can't see them playing Viney permanent forward, but he and we IMO looked a lot better earlier in the season when he was playing more forward than constantly on the ball. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by A F

[Engorged Onion 10,127]

1 minute ago, A F said:

Viney forward on the other hand, I believe, is a completely different proposition. He overpowers small to medium defenders, even keep position players at ground level and makes good decisions and his kicking shortcomings (mostly penetration) aren't an issue when he plays high half forward and deep forward 50.

It has taken me a while, but in that statement right there, you have sold me on Viney to forward line.

[Kent 2,859]

3 minutes ago, A F said:

I've watched Viney carefully at stoppages for essentially the last year, since @Axis of Bob wrote that brilliant post about our stoppage set ups and Viney'sdefensive importance to them, but at this stage I just have to completely disagree. He ball chases. He doesn't trust his team mates to tackle and our midfield is noticeably unbalanced when he's in there. I'd even argue our dip in form as a team has coincided with his return. That's a loads things, but his return has also totally ruined whatever midfield synergy we'd developed over so many successful weeks.

I'd take a fresh JJ over Viney as defensive midfielder just about every day of the week. JJ is a brilliant tackler, but is also beautifully clean below his feet and makes good decisions by hand and foot. He also stays within his wheelhouse and doesn't play hero.

Viney forward on the other hand, I believe, is a completely different proposition. He overpowers small to medium defenders, even key position players at ground level, and makes good decisions, and his kicking shortcomings (mostly penetration) aren't an issue when he plays high half forward and deep forward 50.

I wouldn't rule Jack out of the midfield necessarily in a final, particularly in bursts, but during the regular season I think he can add much more pressure to our forward half (to compliment Kozzy) without creating this bees to the honeypot effect in the midfield and leaving us exposed going the other way.

Anyway, each to their own and I can't see them playing Viney permanent forward, but he and we IMO looked a lot better earlier in the season when he was playing more forward than constantly on the ball. 

I agree completely AF

We are a better clearance team without Viney chasing th epill and knocking Oly and Petracca out of the way

[SPC 3,477]

Our tactic of small kick or handball play on over the top has stopped. We also stopped looking inboard. We have become predictable and slow. Our forwards get shallow entry to congested spots. Also our midfield is again fighting for the same ball, to close to the contest. 
Fix these issues and we will win our way to top 4 

[Adam The God 29,360]

Look at this play. Viney shakes off Williams and then Cordy a key position player, and then has the vision to see Kozzy and kicks it very deliberately out to the space in front of Kozzy. It's a brilliant piece of play.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRxhF0lHWPd/?utm_medium=copy_link

Edited July 26, 2021 by A F

[binman 41,948]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

Look at this play. Viney shakes off Williams and then Cordy a key position player, and then has the vision to see Kozzy and kicks it very deliberately out to the space in front of Kozzy. It's a brilliant piece of play.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRxhF0lHWPd/?utm_medium=copy_link

Yep.

I argued long and hard last season for Viney to play as pressure forward, for all the reasons you have highlighted.  

Viney might do some time up forward 9as he did on saturday night) - for example rotating with a Melksham.

But i can't see goody changing tack, and going forward, pardon the pun,  jack will remain a 80-20 mid forward.

[640MD 3,320]

55 minutes ago, binman said:

But i can't see goody changing tack, and 

Is this part of the problem at the moment either one being pigheaded and others not speaking up loudly.

my wife always wanted me flexible in my mind and body and I tried to listen. 
there is more than one way to skin a cat and I do not Iike Geelong.
Essentially the FD should be having this same discussion. 

Training loading and then the “rest” and following rise in intensity for a meeting does work. Well known or accepted, but I would have thought only for a short peak effect like a carnival or athletic event.

how do you run that into a 3 or 4 week finals campaign.

I do not want to see 2 great games get to the granny, for the team to not turn up until half time, like Perth. Go Dees

[BW511 2,569]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Yep.

I argued long and hard last season for Viney to play as pressure forward, for all the reasons you have highlighted.  

Viney might do some time up forward 9as he did on saturday night) - for example rotating with a Melksham.

But i can't see goody changing tack, and going forward, pardon the pun,  jack will remain a 80-20 mid forward.

I agree, if he is to remain in the side it should be 80-20 forward split. At least he could create some carnage in forward contests - which none of our KPF are known for.

I can't help feeling there is a bit of politics involved in this. It's a big and long investment for a pressure forward, the club would look a little silly if that were the case. 

 

 

[binman 41,948]

34 minutes ago, 640MD said:

Is this part of the problem at the moment either one being pigheaded and others not speaking up loudly.

my wife always wanted me flexible in my mind and body and I tried to listen. 
there is more than one way to skin a cat and I do not Iike Geelong.
Essentially the FD should be having this same discussion. 

 

All depends on your perspective i guess.

Stubborn?

Or confident?

 

[Grr-owl 1,169]

Well, there's a lot of good technical talk going on here as usual, so what I'm going to say may be a bit ordinary, mundane, prosaic, some adjective that isn't coming to mind....

With a lot of jobs I do, I get to about 3/4 quarters through and it really begins to drag. There's that sense that it's never going to end, even though I know it must. Tough times. I can see the finish line, but I know it's a way off yet, and there's so many problems to fix, I being to ask, was it worth beginning this dumb idea in the first place? 

But then, there's really no other choice but to grind on. I mean, what am I going to do, give up? Nah, I just have to put the shoulder to the wheel and work the problems out one by one, apply tried and true techniques and a little individual flair and look forward to the day energy returns and I can begin something more satisfying....

And then sudenly I'm at the end. The project comes into focus, I'm tweaking and detailing, and a weight is lifted from my shoulders as I realize the thing is all but finished. There's a sprint then to the finish line and I'm there, dancing just for a moment. 

Sure, the work is never perfect, but it's done. Next job, please.

In other words, I reckon this is where we're at: That dark and heavy place. It's a long season, after all.

[Engorged Onion 10,127]

7 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

Well, there's a lot of good technical talk going on here as usual, so what I'm going to say may be a bit ordinary, mundane, prosaic, some adjective that isn't coming to mind....

With a lot of jobs I do, I get to about 3/4 quarters through and it really begins to drag. There's that sense that it's never going to end, even though I know it must. Tough times. I can see the finish line, but I know it's a way off yet, and there's so many problems to fix, I being to ask, was it worth beginning this dumb idea in the first place? 

But then, there's really no other choice but to grind on. I mean, what am I going to do, give up? Nah, I just have to put the shoulder to the wheel and work the problems out one by one, apply tried and true techniques and a little individual flair and look forward to the day energy returns and I can begin something more satisfying....

And then sudenly I'm at the end. The project comes into focus, I'm tweaking and detailing, and a weight is lifted from my shoulders as I realize the thing is all but finished. There's a sprint then to the finish line and I'm there, dancing just for a moment. 

Sure, the work is never perfect, but it's done. Next job, please.

In other words, I reckon this is where we're at: That dark and heavy place. It's a long season, after all.

Really nicely put Groovy Owl.

It reminds me of a time when a multiple premiership player (of a recent dynasty) said to me that the worst time of the year wasn't the pre-season - it was when you either knew you were out of the finals, or in the finals, as those subsequent matches were essentially meaningless items to get through. It's even more amplified when the days are short and cold in Victoria... 

as well as managing life within a pandemic...

This clearly isn't a supporters perspective, as each match is either evidence that you've got a chance or not.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Engorged Onion

[Dr. Gonzo 23,702]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:37 AM, binman said:

Its funny you should say that.

A few minutes before reading this post I was thinking about the fact I tipped the dees, but in hindsight made a mistake in terms of the conditions.

Before the game, my thinking was they would disadvantaged by wet conditions because it would make it hard for them to flick it around and possess the ball. And make it hard for Naughton and their other tall forwards. 

But I forgot to factor in how badly the rain would impact our poor kicking and how much the gap between their superior kicking skills and ours would widen.

I also thought about the issue you noted about marks from hb.

I'm not sure it had a major difference. Sort of. The issue was they were winning so many of the ground balls. And of course inside 50 stoppages.

So I guess if we marked more balls coming in that would have stopped them winning those balls. And we we would have more opportunities to rebound. But we have been good at wiining those contests up till the last few weeks.

I actually think the main problem we are having with scoring is fatigue related.

At our best that we generate a lot of our scoring from overlap run from half back. Those goals where we run in waves and swarm it forward, often leading to us having an outnumber inside 50 with mids etc streaming towards an unguarded goal - like two of tracc's goals against Port.

But atm only hunt and nibbler seems to be able to run and carry and offer overlap options. 

Rivers looks out in his feet. Jackson too. Same goes for Langdon. Kozzie is not getting up and down the ground nearly as much and nor is Spargo. Hibberd looks a plodder again. And Gus, never quick in the best of times is going back and staying there and offering very little in terms of run and carry.

This lack of overlap run by multiple players was the reason we couldn't take advantage of periods where were on top.

It also makes our forward line look more one dimensional, more crowded and our entries more difficult.

The swarm overlap creates faster transitions, opposition teams are less able to get back to defend and it pulls opposition zones out of shape.

Whatever the cause of the fatigue, I have little doubt it is the key factor in our performance atm.

After 9 rounds most posters were quite rightly lauding the genius of burgess. We were clearly fitter than most teams. And we were running on top of the ground. We have lost that edge.

But burgess hasn't become any less a leader in his field. And I have complete faith in his ability to make sure the team is at optimal fitness and freshness come the first final.

Port supporters on BF have been saying since earlier in the year "wait for the late season Burgess drop off".

Will be interesting to see if we rebound for finals. If we don't is it because of our training/conditioning or because our young players are out on their feet (or both)?

[WalkingCivilWar 39,259]

On 7/26/2021 at 10:38 AM, 640MD said:

Thanks to all, really like this thread makes me sound smart when I repeat some of it.

Same here! I soak all this info in like a sponge. Then when I’m in a footy discussion my friends are like “who ARE you?!” ?

[dino rover 700]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:51 AM, BW511 said:

flat from probable loads,

I dont get flat from loads - dont other teams have loads as well or dont we have enough midfield depth? It wasnt long ago we were thought to be overblessed with mids.

 

[BW511 2,569]

23 minutes ago, dino rover said:

I dont get flat from loads - dont other teams have loads as well or dont we have enough midfield depth? It wasnt long ago we were thought to be overblessed with mids.

 

We are very light on for quality depth in my opinion.

[Adam The God 29,360]

35 minutes ago, BW511 said:

We are very light on for quality depth in my opinion.

Isn't this an oxymoron? They're depth for a reason.