Deep Dive into Dees Issues

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

we have known that for the last 12 months and it was re enforced in Round 1 after which he had a three month break and then in rounds 2 and 3 etc he doubles down with his small forward line.

Not sure this guy is capable of learning

If you want to look at two contrasting examples look how Hardwick played with a young team by slowing the game down against the dogs and keeping his two key talls deep forward. Against Port (ladder leader and fast team) we just go business as usual.

I agree mate, i was shocked the football department was allowed to conduct it's own kangaroo court review on last season. should have been a full external review. 

it does to me show that the board obviously bought the injuries excuse as satisfactory for what was going on. 

but i do think this is a lot bigger than unsuccessful seasons and senior coaches. i feel personally the rest of this season could have a huge bearing on the MFC's future. 

I don't believe all 18 clubs will survive COVID 19 and if we're suddenly back to where we were pre- Roos or even potentially financially worse off. we're in deep trouble and at serious risk of facing Merger or just ceasing to exist totally. 

If the club is not 100% sure Goodwin is capable of leading the MFC to a premiership in the next 5 years it's time to move him on and find someone who is. 

 

[faultydet 7,612]

17 minutes ago, A F said:

What's done is done. Let's accept we made mistakes and move forward properly. Review the FD now, so that we know how to act come the end of the season.

If we end up turning it around, great, if not, we know which triggers need to be pulled.

We wont be turning it around. AF.

I think some people are half expecting to see some sort of lazarus act that ends up with us making finals. We have a seriously overrated and low-skills list who are coached by someone who appears clueless after 2 1/2 years on the job. Coupled with our decades long cultural disaster and lack of intestinal fortitude when things get tough and I think we will continue to be embarrassed until Goodwin is shown the door and we finally get some LEADERS into the club who can lead where it counts. On.The Field. 

[Adam The God 30,277]

25 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe it is the new curfew and shut downs but I'm not feeling as generous as your good self.

I wish I was confident the AFL will fund another staffing bail out for us.  Our predicament might just given them the ammo they need to merge clubs in post covid economics.  Many other clubs will say we have had enough chances and keep stuffing it up and will argue there is a fair chance we will do it again.

IMO, they won't be merging clubs when there's still a TV deal in place.

I think they'll put strict conditions on the money, which is usually how money works in most places anyway. I think they'll want a say on future contracts and roles within the club, but if it goes this way, they can't afford not to support the club.

[Adam The God 30,277]

11 minutes ago, faultydet said:

We wont be turning it around. AF.

I think some people are half expecting to see some sort of lazarus act that ends up with us making finals. We have a seriously overrated and low-skills list who are coached by someone who appears clueless after 2 1/2 years on the job. Coupled with our decades long cultural disaster and lack of intestinal fortitude when things get tough and I think we will continue to be embarrassed until Goodwin is shown the door and we finally get some LEADERS into the club who can lead where it counts. On.The Field. 

Disagree about the list comment. It's pretty well known that our list is highly rated amongst AFL circles. I'll back the industry's perception over fans.

Agree that it's extremely unlikely he turns it around from here.

[rjay 24,973]

43 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Many on here and especially @rjay and I were pushing for an external review more than 18 months ago.  Obvious what the issues were.

But what did the club do 2019 post season - they let Mahoney review his own department.  Good changes were made to the fitness and analytics side.  But abysmal decisions on the coaching side.

Meantime we have lost a year and our talented players a one year closer to being Free Agents.

Yep, another year wasted 'Lucifer'.

Should have happened last season.

They have to get a really knowledgable football person to do this job.

I would think Pert has connections to Andrew Ireland from the Roy's days... he is the type of person for the job.

Edited August 3, 2020 by rjay

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Terrific article.  Well written and fairly balanced.  No surprise that the author is a Melbourne supporter!

The quote that stuck out to me was around how we have a certain way of playing, and we do little to deviate from that on game day.  If this is something journalists can see, and that we can see, then you can be damn sure that the opposition see it too.

I can recall that Goodwin and the coaching team were going to make changes, especially around how we use the ball forward, in the off season.  Even though you can see that we tried to do that at the draft, especially with Pickett, it seems as though not a whole lot has changed.  Goody strikes me as that kid in primary school who takes his writing up to the teacher, who says it's good but could be better with changes.  The kid goes back to his seat, pretends to make changes for five minutes, and then hands it again, knowing that they have changed nothing other than a capital letter or full stop.  It just seems to me that we talked the talk, but to this point, we haven't walked the walk.  The stat he provided is proof of that - 4th in inside 50s, but we are just 14th for tackles inside 50.  And we know our conversion is even worse.  That was very similar to last year.

I agree with him that we have some solid foundations to build on with our list.  Is Goodwin the one to build on that?  I'm not so sure right now.  Unless we totally drop our bundle I think he will see out the season and possibly get one last crack in 2021, although Bartlett might want to swing the axe sooner if we miss out on finals, which is highly likely.

[Supermercado 2,797]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Paging @Supermercado for his nomination for the Kent Kingsley Award

I've done a forensic investigation on Adelaide's team (e.g. looked up their side from last week on AFL Tables) and hereby declare RILEY KNIGHT most likely to come from the clouds and have the game of his life against us. He has kicked 2 goals in a game 12 times, this is his chance for 3+

[CHF 2,743]

"Tactically Melbourne have become a side that backs in their system and does not make many adjustments during a game."

This is all very well and good if the system has enough flexibility to adjust to the circumstances that evolve during a game and that the coaches box have developed responses that can be put in place to react.

I have not seen any match day responses that are reactive let alone proactive.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

1 hour ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

It will! 

Have heard some talk that the football dept has been officially put on notice and the club is making enquiries about an extensive external review of the entire football department 

seemingly the executive branch of the club agrees that the current situation is not one that will see us having any serious success in the near future and may need to change. 

in saying that, it doesn't mean Goody can't coach, or shouldn't be the coach. i just think it really says the game plan, and culture at present isn't working and needs to be overhauled. Buckley and Hardwick have undergone transformations like this in recent memory. hopefully Goody can learn from them.

That's good news but a year too late! The external review should've happened last year (or at the end of 2018 some would say!)

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's good news but a year too late! The external review should've happened last year (or at the end of 2018 some would say!)

Yes. We definitely needed an external review after 2018, being close is not good enough, that was the perfect time to dig deep

I think the opportunity is gone if last Thursday can still be served up by the team 2 years later

The next 9 games will reveal quite a bit...

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. We definitely needed an external review after 2018, being close is not good enough, that was the perfect time to dig deep

I think the opportunity is gone if last Thursday can still be served up by the team 2 years later

The next 9 games will reveal quite a bit...

 

 

Exactly - the way we were dissected in the Prelim as well as against Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwood earlier in the year should've been enough to warrant a review. I said at the time (at the beginning of the Goodwin thread) that he needed help with a better team if assistants around him. 30 months on and we still have Plapp, Chaplin, Rooke and Egan not to mention Mahoney in key roles despite little evidence to indicate they are actually good at their roles! And that's without even mentioning the lack of a forward coach.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Exactly - the way we were dissected in the Prelim as well as against Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwood earlier in the year should've been enough to warrant a review. I said at the time (at the beginning of the Goodwin thread) that he needed help with a better team if assistants around him. 30 months on and we still have Plapp, Chaplin, Rooke and Egan not to mention Mahoney in key roles despite little evidence to indicate they are actually good at their roles! And that's without even mentioning the lack of a forward coach.

We could go on...

Bartlett is also on notice in my opinion as this has all occurred under his watch

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

hard to disagree with much 

the only thing i will vehemently disagree with is that our "core of players is excellent"

we have three a-graders - gawn, petracca, and oliver

we have three b-graders - may, salem, and - i'd argue - lever

the rest are a lot of journeymen (jones, jetta, t mac, hibberd, melksham), nqrs (brayshaw, weideman, langdon, etc.) and pretty ordinary plodders (everyone else)

after four rebuilds (07-09, 10-12, 13-18, 19-now) our list is still an absolute dog's breakfast

Edited August 3, 2020 by whatwhatsaywhat

[faultydet 7,612]

1 hour ago, A F said:

Disagree about the list comment. It's pretty well known that our list is highly rated amongst AFL circles. I'll back the industry's perception over fans.

Agree that it's extremely unlikely he turns it around from here.

But is it though?

I've no doubt whatsover that every other club would love to pick the eyes out of our list to top up with inside mids, Max and maybe our Full Back, but I'm not convinced that the list overall would be highly rated by our peers.

We have NOBODY in our first choice 18 who could be considered a great kick, or at least a reliably great kick. Some are technically very good but have regular decision making problems ie:May/Salem.The skills on our list overall are deplorable. We panic under pressure and our best players cannot execute their skills consistently like the best do. We also have nobody apart from Max who is likely to take a pack mark in the forward 50. That is a big concern for a team as hopeless as us at inside 50 delivery.

Hoping like hell that Harley Bennell can get back to full fitness as he would make a massive difference playing full time in the guts.

[Adam The God 30,277]

34 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Exactly - the way we were dissected in the Prelim as well as against Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwood earlier in the year should've been enough to warrant a review. I said at the time (at the beginning of the Goodwin thread) that he needed help with a better team if assistants around him. 30 months on and we still have Plapp, Chaplin, Rooke and Egan not to mention Mahoney in key roles despite little evidence to indicate they are actually good at their roles! And that's without even mentioning the lack of a forward coach.

Plapp is the forward coach.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

1 minute ago, A F said:

Plapp is the forward coach.

I thought he was our midfield coach? Either way I don't think he's good enough

[Adam The God 30,277]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I thought he was our midfield coach? Either way I don't think he's good enough

At the start of Before the Bounce, the new web series on the MFC website, Plapp was interviewed and introduced as the forward coach prior to the Port game. I have a feeling they might have changed things up with coaching personnel since the Richmond loss.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, A F said:

The game's economics are based on membership and winning, brand value etc.

If we finish outside the 8, the board would argue to the AFL that results under Goodwin are untenable and that if change is not made, the economic repercussions are far worse.

We're talking about a multi-billion dollar industry that has the security of two big banks that it can leverage loans and funds from. In this situation, the AFL will cough up the cash under certain conditions. 

And..... ratings AF.  Don't know how we are fairing but can't be great surely.  The AFL brains trust will no doubt be watching.   Anything that's beyond tenable , or worse,  and the jungle drums will be beating, the purse strings loosening.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Adam The God 30,277]

7 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

And..... ratings AF.  Don't know how we are fairing but can't be great surely.  The AFL brains trust will no doubt be watching.   Anything that's beyond tenable , or worse, and the jungle drums will be beating.

Absolutely, good point. Ratings, given the TV deal. We usually deliver absolute tripe in prime time, even in our stronger years.

Edited August 3, 2020 by A F

[praha 11,240]

3 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

It will! 

Have heard some talk that the football dept has been officially put on notice and the club is making enquiries about an extensive external review of the entire football department 

seemingly the executive branch of the club agrees that the current situation is not one that will see us having any serious success in the near future and may need to change. 

in saying that, it doesn't mean Goody can't coach, or shouldn't be the coach. i just think it really says the game plan, and culture at present isn't working and needs to be overhauled. Buckley and Hardwick have undergone transformations like this in recent memory. hopefully Goody can learn from them.

hasn't this already occured?

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Just now, praha said:

hasn't this already occured?

An external review? no. 

Josh Mahoney conducted the review of a department he oversees which to me is mind boggling. 

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

4 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

An external review? no. 

Josh Mahoney conducted the review of a department he oversees which to me is mind boggling. 

he has gotta go at the end of this season

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

1 minute ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

he has gotta go at the end of this season

I tend to agree. i think we need to head hunt an experienced GM of footy with a proven record. we've seen from the great clubs how vital that position is. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

53 minutes ago, A F said:

At the start of Before the Bounce, the new web series on the MFC website, Plapp was interviewed and introduced as the forward coach prior to the Port game. I have a feeling they might have changed things up with coaching personnel since the Richmond loss.

So who is the midfield coach? Mathews? Or is Plapp pulling double duty?

[rjay 24,973]

12 minutes ago, praha said:

hasn't this already occured?

 

11 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

An external review? no. 

Josh Mahoney conducted the review of a department he oversees which to me is mind boggling. 

Surprisingly...he rated himself and the department rather highly.