On 14/08/2020 at 03:50, titan_uranus said:

Did anyone get behind the paywall to read this:

https://twitter.com/superfooty/status/1294061172933767168?s=20

Edit: thought that would embed, sorry. Text says "Simon Goodwin is frustrated by speculation over the future of Angus Brayshaw but the hard nut is set to be pushed out of the centre square again against Collingwood"

Goodwin doesn't mention Gus or his role in today's press conf.   So 'pushed out' looks like mischief making by HS , drawing from past commentary and probably reading DL about who plays in the middle.  Click Bait!

Would be surprised if Gus doesn't get a fair amount of mid time. 

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 14/08/2020 at 06:12, Patches O’houlihan said:

So frustrating. how about rewarding the bloke who stepped into that role and immediately dominated. 

Gus dominated the game without Gawn winning the taps. he's genuinely as good as Petracca or Oliver in that position, we're insane if we don't at least increase his time in the guts. 

I'd rather see Petracca/ oliver spend slightly more time forward to afford Gus more time than Gus be pushed out

Oliver and Petracca are two of the games top 10 midfielders. Brayshaw has had an opportunity all year to show something and hasn’t. He can wait his turn. Viney has been far better, Sparrow has even been better. Brayshaw is a turnover merchant 

  On 14/08/2020 at 07:13, ThreeOneSix said:

Oliver and Petracca are two of the games top 10 midfielders. Brayshaw has had an opportunity all year to show something and hasn’t. He can wait his turn. Viney has been far better, Sparrow has even been better. Brayshaw is a turnover merchant 

He's played literally 1 game with the same minutes of those two in his strongest position and he had 29 touches, a pile of contested and kicked a goal. in 2018 he played there consistently and finished 3rd in the brownlow. 

the kid can definitely play, and he's being played out of position by a stubborn coach in my humble opinion. 

Brayshaws game on the weekend was comfortably better than anything Sparrow has produced for the club, and certainly up there with the good footy of the other mids. 

  On 14/08/2020 at 07:13, ThreeOneSix said:

Oliver and Petracca are two of the games top 10 midfielders. Brayshaw has had an opportunity all year to show something and hasn’t. He can wait his turn. Viney has been far better, Sparrow has even been better. Brayshaw is a turnover merchant 

What are you talking about? He's barely played in the middle all season. This is a shocker.

  On 14/08/2020 at 07:18, Patches O’houlihan said:

He's played literally 1 game with the same minutes of those two in his strongest position and he had 29 touches, a pile of contested and kicked a goal. in 2018 he played there consistently and finished 3rd in the brownlow. 

the kid can definitely play, and he's being played out of position by a stubborn coach in my humble opinion. 

Brayshaws game on the weekend was comfortably better than anything Sparrow has produced for the club, and certainly up there with the good footy of the other mids. 

I still think he'll feature heavily in the middle tomorrow. As @Lucifer's Hero says, there's nothing to say Gus won't play major midfield minutes tomorrow. The press are expecting he won't, because they've enjoyed putting that question to Goodwin all year. I'm surprised they didn't bring it up in the presser today.

Anyway, completely agree with your post. He's an elite onballer, not a winger and gets the ball for fun, just as Oliver and Petracca do, but he knows how to get it on the in and outside.

Let's wait and see what they do tomorrow, but if he has significantly reduced minutes in place of Viney and/or Sparrow, I'll be furious, because we won't be exploiting our list to its truest extent IMO.

 

  On 14/08/2020 at 06:12, Patches O’houlihan said:

So frustrating. how about rewarding the bloke who stepped into that role and immediately dominated. 

Gus dominated the game without Gawn winning the taps. he's genuinely as good as Petracca or Oliver in that position, we're insane if we don't at least increase his time in the guts. 

I'd rather see Petracca/ oliver spend slightly more time forward to afford Gus more time than Gus be pushed out

Nope. On current form, Oliver gets first dibs on midfield minutes, whether we like Brayshaw or not.

IMO it's Petracca and Viney who should be sharing midfield minutes with Brayshaw, with the former two spending increased minutes in the forward line to make up for it, and Brayshaw's other minutes either on a wing or on the bench.

  On 14/08/2020 at 07:10, Lucifer's Hero said:

Goodwin doesn't mention Gus or his role in today's press conf.   So 'pushed out' looks like mischief making by HS , drawing from past commentary and probably reading DL about who plays in the middle.  Click Bait!

Would be surprised if Gus doesn't get a fair amount of mid time. 

I'm somewhat comforted to read that it was click bait!

I hope we trial a set up that sees Brayshaw spending more time in the middle with Viney in the side. We need to know how it looks. If it doesn't work (either because of Brayshaw or because of Viney), then we need to know. And if it does work...well, that will be good.

  On 14/08/2020 at 07:18, Patches O’houlihan said:

He's played literally 1 game with the same minutes of those two in his strongest position and he had 29 touches, a pile of contested and kicked a goal. in 2018 he played there consistently and finished 3rd in the brownlow. 

the kid can definitely play, and he's being played out of position by a stubborn coach in my humble opinion. 

Brayshaws game on the weekend was comfortably better than anything Sparrow has produced for the club, and certainly up there with the good footy of the other mids. 

Its no surprise that Brayshaw's best game coincided with Viney out allowing him to play as a centre square mid. He was better but his kicking was still unreliable. If Viney's return means he is back to a utility role does he have attributes to excell in that role?

 

  On 05/08/2020 at 21:46, Gorgoroth said:

Amazing To see what happens when the coach plays a player in their correct position. He ain’t a wingman, half back or half forward, he is a midfielder.

He is a mid.

A slow poor disposal mid who hasn't got a tank yet.

Im  not saying give up on him but he's no where near a complete player.

Until he can do something against good sides i still think hes over rated. But hes not alone.

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by Unleash Hell

Brayshaw plays 80% in the centre or he doesn’t play IMO

He’s a midfielder by trade,  and is ineffective on the wing or on the flanks. That is indisputable if 2019 and the first half of this season is anything to go by. 

If Goodwin and Co want to stuff him around in other positions, then it’s best we look at a trade that benefits the MFC.

  On 14/08/2020 at 13:45, Unleash Hell said:

He is a mid.

A slow poor disposal mid who hasn't got a tank yet.

Im  not saying give up on him but he's no where near a complete player.

Until he can do something against good sides i still think hes over rated. But hes not alone.

So the back end of 2018, including finals, didn't do it for you?

* West Coast in Round 22, 26 possessions and a goal (against a midfield that turned out to be a premiership one).

* GWS in Round 23, 32 disposals and a goal.

* Geelong in the first final, 26 possessions.

  On 14/08/2020 at 15:01, A F said:

So the back end of 2018, including finals, didn't do it for you?

* West Coast in Round 22, 26 possessions and a goal (against a midfield that turned out to be a premiership one).

* GWS in Round 23, 32 disposals and a goal.

* Geelong in the first final, 26 possessions.

 

2018 was a little while ago now, im pretty sure a good player would be more consistent. The only stat im interested in for our mids is score involvements. 

As exciting as your stats are it hasnt changed my mind.

This afternoon is his first opportunity to change it.

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by Unleash Hell

Brayshaw amnd Viney both play a similar style of see ball, get ball, hit the pack hard with timing to be where the ball is and give off quickly.

They both have disposal issues, poor kicks because they are usually under immense pressure or off balance. But both usually seem to get the ball deeper into the forward line. Unfortunately this is often in between our attacking forwards and our deeper forwards.

Oliver is a little more static an quick with disposal better vision although still prone to dispose to an unprepared teammate. His disposal appears a little shorter and often involves return and pinball type movement with an uncertain release point.

Trac combines the bullocky attack and also the release point as he spins and uses strength to get out. Seems to play a little more outside, Seems to now be a little more balanced when he releases making him more effective.

All other midfielders play a role as participant with these main ball getters and can be included or released when available.

All midfielders need to try and create space for eventual release. Tackling and bumping opposition, or shepherding teammates to allow space and improve the disposal on release.

Forward delivery is affected by forwards pressing too close or being too deep for the eventual release which varies according to the midfielder who effects it.

All the players are valuable, all have skill and all are elite level.

The coach needs to use them individually and in tandem in structures and patterns that utilise their skills.

They maybe all don't play play every minute or even every game, they play when the opposition  structures or patterns dictate or when injury impacts ability. We are well placed and should not be even discussing losing any of them they are all young and can form the nucleus with Gawn and others the mid field that can give prolonged success.

  On 14/08/2020 at 12:00, Demonland said:

 

iirc Lewis was 'stood down' as an assistant coach when covid hit?  I assume he no longer is connected to the club...

• Hudson: “What would they get for Brayshaw?”
• Whateley: “A lot. I reckon there would be a big cue for Brayshaw.”
• Hudson: “What’s a lot?”
• Whateley: “I reckon you would get a pick inside 12 or you would get a starter, you would definitely get a top 14 player for your own team and you might get a combination.”
• Lewis: “That’s enticing.”

Not surprised there would be a queue for him and that they think we would get a top 12 draft pick and/or a very good player.  It is only on DL that he is not valued by many.  Only a few on here have not wavered in their believe in him year in and year out.  Sigh...

Tbh I'd rather keep Gus than get any draft pick even top #12.  We need max synergy from the midfield as a whole and not just the best of each player. 

We have the rest of the season to ensure Gus wants to stay.  Desperately hope he is in red and blue in 2021.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

as much as i criticise him, i'd be loathe to lose him - he's a ball-winning (and, too often, -burning) midfielder who is right in the sweet spot for being a regular second rotation at worst

they don't exactly grow on trees

  On 15/08/2020 at 00:09, dpositive said:

Brayshaw amnd Viney both play a similar style of see ball, get ball, hit the pack hard with timing to be where the ball is and give off quickly.

They both have disposal issues, poor kicks because they are usually under immense pressure or off balance. But both usually seem to get the ball deeper into the forward line. Unfortunately this is often in between our attacking forwards and our deeper forwards.

Oliver is a little more static an quick with disposal better vision although still prone to dispose to an unprepared teammate. His disposal appears a little shorter and often involves return and pinball type movement with an uncertain release point.

Trac combines the bullocky attack and also the release point as he spins and uses strength to get out. Seems to play a little more outside, Seems to now be a little more balanced when he releases making him more effective.

All other midfielders play a role as participant with these main ball getters and can be included or released when available.

All midfielders need to try and create space for eventual release. Tackling and bumping opposition, or shepherding teammates to allow space and improve the disposal on release.

Forward delivery is affected by forwards pressing too close or being too deep for the eventual release which varies according to the midfielder who effects it.

All the players are valuable, all have skill and all are elite level.

The coach needs to use them individually and in tandem in structures and patterns that utilise their skills.

They maybe all don't play play every minute or even every game, they play when the opposition  structures or patterns dictate or when injury impacts ability. We are well placed and should not be even discussing losing any of them they are all young and can form the nucleus with Gawn and others the mid field that can give prolonged success.

I completely disagree. Gus is nothing like Viney. He's not bang and crash and can get the ball on the outside. This thing Lewis said is just ridiculous and completely inaccurate.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by A F

  On 15/08/2020 at 00:27, Lucifer's Hero said:

iirc Lewis was 'stood down' as an assistant coach when covid hit?  I assume he no longer is connected to the club...

• Hudson: “What would they get for Brayshaw?”
• Whateley: “A lot. I reckon there would be a big cue for Brayshaw.”
• Hudson: “What’s a lot?”
• Whateley: “I reckon you would get a pick inside 12 or you would get a starter, you would definitely get a top 14 player for your own team and you might get a combination.”
• Lewis: “That’s enticing.”

Not surprised there would be a queue for him and that they think we would get a top 12 draft pick and/or a very good player.  It is only on DL that he is not valued by many.  Only a few on here have not wavered in their believe in him year in and year out.  Sigh...

Tbh I'd rather keep Gus than get any draft pick even top #12.  We need max synergy from the midfield as a whole and not just the best of each player. 

We have the rest of the season to ensure Gus wants to stay.  Desperately hope he is in red and blue in 2021.

Gee, Lewis is a plonker. You'd think he'd have learnt something whilst playing alongside them.

In what world would a mid first round pick be worth it for a player who we paid pick 3 for, finished third in the Brownlow two years ago, has yet to play 100 games and can play inside or outside, and is one of our most penetrative kicks from stoppage.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by A F

i'd argue oliver and viney are more similar in their approach but, really, they're very different too

  On 15/08/2020 at 01:04, A F said:

I completely disagree. Gus is nothing like Viney. He's not bang and crash and can get the ball on the outside. This thing Lewis is just ridiculous and completely inaccurate.

You're right Viney is more crash and bash. Bradshaw is more skilled at getting through the pack, can avoid tackles and stays upright while Viney bulldozes through. And yes Bradshaw is able to get it on the outside while Viney does not seem to. 

The point of similarity is they both are most effective in tight in the pack and can get the ball out, but Gus is probably more sophisticated.

I'd trade Brayshaw for nothing less than a top 10 pick.  And we probably aren't gonna get that, so please just keep him he is a gun. 

 

  On 15/08/2020 at 01:13, dpositive said:

You're right Viney is more crash and bash. Bradshaw is more skilled at getting through the pack, can avoid tackles and stays upright while Viney bulldozes through. And yes Bradshaw is able to get it on the outside while Viney does not seem to. 

The point of similarity is they both are most effective in tight in the pack and can get the ball out, but Gus is probably more sophisticated.

See, I reckon Gus' strength is he can get it inside or out, but getting to the outside is where he comes to the fore for me and not in tight, but breaking away from stoppage and kicking long.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by A F

  On 15/08/2020 at 01:08, A F said:

Gee, Lewis is a plonker. You'd think he'd have learnt something whilst playing alongside them.

In what world would a mid first round pick be worth it for a Gus who we paid pick 3 for, finished third in the Brownlow two years ago, has yet to play 100 games and can play inside or outside.

Yep, Lewis was a good footballer no doubt.

...but he's a dreadful football analyst.

He has little to no idea and just doesn't do his homework at all.

It's surprising he doesn't seem to even know his most recent teammates and their strengths and weaknesses. 

The only thing he offers at the moment is a bit of click bait on the Hawks, Clarko & Jeff.

Getting by on the good guy, good footballer job for life.

The answer is simple let Viney go and keep Gus, more upside than Viney.

  On 15/08/2020 at 01:14, Pickett2Jackson said:

I'd trade Brayshaw for nothing less than a top 10 pick.  And we probably aren't gonna get that, so please just keep him he is a gun. 

 

EFC would be a suitor, they need inside grunt...the only thing that maybe a consideration is a straight swap with Merrett.

They're not going to do that one but it would probably be a win/win

A pick in this coming draft is no use to us.

Carlton need help for Cripps but looking at their list they're not going to give up Walsh and there is nothing else there.

Saints, Billings or Gresham?

Freo, Cerra or brother Brayshaw...

I guess you get where I'm coming from...he stays.

 

  On 15/08/2020 at 01:15, A F said:

See, I reckon Gus' strength is he can get it inside or out, but getting to the outside is where he comes to the fore for me and not in tight, but breaking away from stoppage and kicking long.

Thanks for making me think about this a bit more.

i guess I see Gus complements Oliver. Viney complements  Oliver.

Gus and Viney don't complement each other as both work best in the same position, but they do it differently.

and your right Gus breaks away more where Viney is in the struggle.