Do you agree with Bob Murphy? Who’s your MVP?

 

T Mac make sense.

I'd have Melksham high on the list too.

Gawn is our most valuable by a long way.  If people bring up any other name, they're just trying to be too cute.

21 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Do you agree with Bob Murphy? Who’s your MVP?

Rubbish Bob Murphy....   Maxy Gawn is our most valuable player. He is our captain, can play almost any position, he id inspirational is almost everything he does. He taps to our on ballers most accurately and overall he is a good example to other players he plays with and against..   Here is proof, from the one and only Jame McDonald just a few days ago.

If there is one thing Max Gawn has never been short of, it's confidence.

Former Melbourne skipper James McDonald recalled a moment in 2010 when he was returning from injury at the same time as Gawn, then in his rookie season with the Demons, was on the mend from his initial knee reconstruction.

Big Max: Melbourne's new captain has taken an unconventional path to the jobCREDIT:GETTY IMAGES

"What he has got, and not in an arrogant sort of way, is amazing self belief," McDonald said.

"In my last year, I had been out injured and Max is coming back from his knee reco, and I think I had played close to 250 games. He made the comment: 'There is 250 games of experience coming back into the team this week'. He hadn't even played a game but he was including himself in that experience.

AdvertisementHe is quite extroverted. He has probably always had those leadership qualities there."

Gawn was unveiled as Melbourne skipper on Monday, admitting he was more "class clown" than future captain after he was taken by the Demons with their fifth selection, 34th overall, in the 2009 national draft. He battled injuries and wasn't as focused as he should have been in recovery, having admitted to a lively, partying lifestyle, and enjoying a cigarette.

One moment resonates in the memory of club officials and McDonald. Having bobbed up in the social pages of Melbourne's newspapers during Melbourne's spring racing carnival in 2012, Gawn tore his hamstring off the bone two days later at pre-season training. That injury could be blamed more on misfortune than poor management, but it was a harsh lesson.Ruckmen always take time to mature, but that was true on and off the field for the 208-centimetre Gawn.

"It was more probably those little one per centers that you have got to do. He has, obviously, worked that out now and has turned out to be an unbelievable player," McDonald said.

"There were one or two instances there where we had to sit him down and give him a few home truths. He wasn't the only one. His personality is quite laconic. When your personality is like that, you have to flick the switch, knowing what is serious and what is not.

 

 

Early days: Gawn in his first year at MelbourneCREDIT:SLATTERY MEDIA

"A young kid, 18 or 19, still maturing, you have to give them a little bit of a leeway to work that out. It is good that he has worked that out."

Gawn, 28, thanked McDonald, whom he described "as one of the best Melbourne captains", and former vice-captain Brent Moloney for their tough love in the early days. He is still inspired by the late Jimmy Stynes, who presented him with his No.37 guernsey.

Now entering his 11th season, and with 120 matches to his name, Gawn said his colourful history would help him handle the job.

Coach Simon Goodwin said Gawn, the best and fairest in 2018 before sharing the award last year with Clayton Oliver, would have "empathy" for the playing group.

 

Gawn, also a three-time All-Australian, said he had developed as a leader, having been in the leadership group last season.

"I had been laminated the class clown when I first got drafted. It took me a while to shake that. Being able to have a jovial conversation at the same time as being able to hit that person up is almost one of my strengths now," Gawn said.

Schooled at McKinnon Secondary College in Melbourne's south-east, Gawn joked that he initially had found it hard to get that "private-school relationship going" when he joined the Demons.

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"The guys were more Brighton Grammar but I got there eventually," he said.

 

However, Gawn can now quickly flick that switch to a more serious note.

"I have been through every position available. I have played 50 AFL games in a row, I played one year when I went one VFL, one AFL for the whole season. I played one year all the way down in the VFL. I have been injured for a whole year," he said.

"I definitely have been involved in almost everything that you can at a football club. I have been unprofessional and I have now got my habits and standards to a level that is good enough to lead a club."

 

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6 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Gawn is our most valuable by a long way.  If people bring up any other name, they're just trying to be too cute.

Best player, but not 'most valuable' in terms of results.

Pedersen and Watts in the ruck showed that IMO.

Gawn.

On and off the field. 

Seems like players stand taller when playing with him, not to mention when he floats across packs and takes crucial intercept marks. 

If he hits the scoreboard more this year he'll go next level. 

I think Oliver is our second most important. He's in everything. 

Also might have the quickest hands in the game. 

If only he kicked more...

At the end of the game it is the team that has scored most that wins, not the team that has most possessions or displayed greater courage or commitment.

Sending the ball through the big sticks is the name of the game and why talented forwards have been prized forever.

Maxie can get all the hitouts to advantage and Clarrie can get 60+ possessions but unless we score we are toast.

TMAC at his best can score. That's why he is the most valuable, even though not necessarily the best.

 

Tom McDonald isn't a bad choice, when you consider just how much difference it would make to us if he plays this season at his best, compared to his lacklustre, sporadic 2019.

One way to put it - without McDonald in at least pretty good form, even optimistic me wouldn't spare a moment to imagine a premiership his year.  We need that role filled and he is the only player we've got who has shown he can do it well.

Gawn is captain for very good reasons, though.

49 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Gawn is our most valuable by a long way.  If people bring up any other name, they're just trying to be too cute.

I'm with Murphy, at the risk of being cute.  TMac can play key defence, key forward, wing or ruck.

Gawn?  Ruck only.

 

I stated here years ago that Gawn was no.2 ruckman in the comp behind Grundy.  Time has and will prove me right.

I think Gawn is overrated a tad by the media and MFC supporters.  His kicking for goal is not brilliant.  His marking seemed like it was going to be A+ grade, but is probably B+.  He is slowish.  I don't know if he is physical enough either, but expect a bit more grunt, and less indifference with the "C" next to his name.

 

 

pTGR

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Best player, but not 'most valuable' in terms of results.

Pedersen and Watts in the ruck showed that IMO.

You do realise you can be both the best and MVP?

52 minutes ago, TGR said:

I'm with Murphy, at the risk of being cute.  TMac can play key defence, key forward, wing or ruck.

Gawn?  Ruck only.

 

I stated here years ago that Gawn was no.2 ruckman in the comp behind Grundy.  Time has and will prove me right.

I think Gawn is overrated a tad by the media and MFC supporters.  His kicking for goal is not brilliant.  His marking seemed like it was going to be A+ grade, but is probably B+.  He is slowish.  I don't know if he is physical enough either, but expect a bit more grunt, and less indifference with the "C" next to his name.

 

 

pTGR

Sacrilege. Heresy. 

9 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

You do realise you can be both the best and MVP?

For sure, and you do realize you can be the best player but not the MVP?

 

Our bookends, in May and T.McDonald, are very important to our team, but there is no one who can come close to replacing Gawn.

 

 

I've said on here all summer that TMac was our MVP. He's our only proven big goal kicker, and without him firing we'll struggle to kick enough goals to be a threat this year. We have depth in all other positions, except tall forwards who can kick goals.

Gawn is our best player, but he can be covered in the ruck. Pedo, Watts, Preuss and Weid have all proved this over the past few years. Pedo did especially well and actually improved our output temporarily. Gawns key trait we struggle to cover is his intercept marking and bail out option for kick-ins and up the wing. Rucks are easily covered in ruck contests.

Edited March 13, 20205 yr by Lord Travis

50 minutes ago, TGR said:

I'm with Murphy, at the risk of being cute.  TMac can play key defence, key forward, wing or ruck.

Gawn?  Ruck only.

 

I stated here years ago that Gawn was no.2 ruckman in the comp behind Grundy.  Time has and will prove me right.

I think Gawn is overrated a tad by the media and MFC supporters.  His kicking for goal is not brilliant.  His marking seemed like it was going to be A+ grade, but is probably B+.  He is slowish.  I don't know if he is physical enough either, but expect a bit more grunt, and less indifference with the "C" next to his name.

 

 

pTGR

So because TMc can play multiple positions and Gawn can't, that means TMc is more valuable?  Point is, we can move Tom out of FF, and still have other scoring options.  Yes, Tom can be an adequate replacement in defence, he's too slow to be an an adequate replacement for Langdon or Tomlinson on the wing.  His ruck work is competitive at best.

Gawn's importance is in two key areas for mine.  Our midfield rely on him feeding them - they aren't very good at sharking an opposition ruck.  Their dominance, which can be quite a strength, relies on Max winning the ruck contest.  If our midfield are dominating, then our avenue to goal is very unpredictable, and as we saw in 2018, can score big scores.

The other important role Max plays is being able to drop back in defence.  If sides start getting on top, and isolating Lever one-out, which gets him out of his comfort zone, Gawn can play the intercept marking role very well.

The Gawn/Grundy comparison has nothing to do with Max's value to our team.  But it's also a comparison that I don't think has a true winner (like comparing Black Caviar with Winx).  There's areas that Max has Grundy covered, but there are areas that Grundy has Max covered.  They are both high quality, A+ rucks, and we're fortunate to have one on our list.

 

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

For sure, and you do realize you can be the best player but not the MVP?

 

Absolutely.  Read my post above for a better explanation of why I think Max is by far our MVP.

Gawn is our outright MVP.  TMac on fire is great and Petracca and Oliver also, but a dominant ruckman is a rare thing. Any number of beanpoles can fill in the ruck and any number of battlers can give you a chance in the ruck but a standout winner is irreplaceable.

 

TMc's dominance (kicking goals) is only as good as the delivery in to him.  The delivery in to him is only as good as the time given to the mids/half forwards to hit a target.  The time given to the mids/half forwards is only as good as the dominance around the clearances.  The dominance around the clearances is only as good as a dominant ruck.

We get the ruck right, we generally dominate, and Tom is on the end of that.  Our game style is structured around that, yet some people are saying that Max isn't our most important player.  Sheesh.

 

 

1 minute ago, The Chazz said:

TMc's dominance (kicking goals) is only as good as the delivery in to him.  The delivery in to him is only as good as the time given to the mids/half forwards to hit a target.  The time given to the mids/half forwards is only as good as the dominance around the clearances.  The dominance around the clearances is only as good as a dominant ruck.

We get the ruck right, we generally dominate, and Tom is on the end of that.  Our game style is structured around that, yet some people are saying that Max isn't our most important player.  Sheesh.

Max was All-Australian last year. Ranked 3rd for hitouts. As a team we were 8th for clearances and 5th for inside 50s.

We finished 17th.

TMac kicked 18 goals.

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Max was All-Australian last year. Ranked 3rd for hitouts. As a team we were 8th for clearances and 5th for inside 50s.

We finished 17th.

TMac kicked 18 goals.

You've actually proven my point.  Max is more valuable than Tom.

Thanks.

 

4 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

You've actually proven my point.  Max is more valuable than Tom.

Thanks.

 

Maybe read it again mate.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Maybe read it again mate.

18 goals from 15 games, including a bag of 6, in a team that is 5th for inside 50s.

I'd say Tom's value is dependent on the performance of players further up the field.

I just thank God that Max had the year he did, and that the Gold Coast are in the league.  2019 would've been a whole new level of [censored] had it not been for those two factors. 

43 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

So because TMc can play multiple positions and Gawn can't, that means TMc is more valuable?  Point is, we can move Tom out of FF, and still have other scoring options.  Yes, Tom can be an adequate replacement in defence, he's too slow to be an an adequate replacement for Langdon or Tomlinson on the wing.  His ruck work is competitive at best.

Gawn's importance is in two key areas for mine.  Our midfield rely on him feeding them - they aren't very good at sharking an opposition ruck.  Their dominance, which can be quite a strength, relies on Max winning the ruck contest.  If our midfield are dominating, then our avenue to goal is very unpredictable, and as we saw in 2018, can score big scores.

The other important role Max plays is being able to drop back in defence.  If sides start getting on top, and isolating Lever one-out, which gets him out of his comfort zone, Gawn can play the intercept marking role very well.

The Gawn/Grundy comparison has nothing to do with Max's value to our team.  But it's also a comparison that I don't think has a true winner (like comparing Black Caviar with Winx).  There's areas that Max has Grundy covered, but there are areas that Grundy has Max covered.  They are both high quality, A+ rucks, and we're fortunate to have one on our list.

 

spot on

(but don't feed the troll)

Max is a useful player and in his role one of the best. Unfortunately his role is of declining relevance in the modern game.

Grundy is his equal but there would be real debate at the Pies who is their most valuable player

Edited March 13, 20205 yr by Diamond_Jim

18 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

18 goals from 15 games, including a bag of 6, in a team that is 5th for inside 50s.

I'd say Tom's value is dependent on the performance of players further up the field.

I just thank God that Max had the year he did, and that the Gold Coast are in the league.  2019 would've been a whole new level of [censored] had it not been for those two factors. 

I don't think you're grasping the point mate.

Gawn played great, our mids won a heap of clearances and we got the ball inside 50 a ton, so all the things you think are important all happened, yet we finished second last.

That tells you that Gawn can play fantastic and do all the things you want, but the team still fails in a huge way.