Game Style Recognisable by Supporters - Goodwin

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,673]

On 3/7/2020 at 4:41 PM, It's Time said:

From Goody's presser last night.

"When we went into the summer we wanted to establish a game style that was recognisable to our supporters. When they come every week they can see a style that they can see consistently and something that will stand up over the duration of the season. I think the teams been able to do that over the summer. We've been able to establish some behaviours in a lot of phases and they should be really excited heading into the season and get a long to see the Dees."  

 

 

 

 

Insert finger down back of throat emoji.

I didn't realise corporate-speak of the meaningless variety was in Goodwin's repertoire. Maybe that's because I never listen to his (or any other coach's) press conferences. 

[Redleg 40,777]

31 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

I didn't realise corporate-speak of the meaningless variety was in Goodwin's repertoire. Maybe that's because I never listen to his (or any other coach's) press conferences. 

Agree, neither do I.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Insert finger down back of throat emoji.

I didn't realise corporate-speak of the meaningless variety was in Goodwin's repertoire. Maybe that's because I never listen to his (or any other coach's) press conferences. 

I would listen to the pressers LDC if some techno whiz could ensure that we hear the questions the coach is answering

FMD.  We dropped a bloke on the moon 50 years ago - can it be that difficult?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 hours ago, It's Time said:

 

Each to his own. He's put it out there so explain it. Pretty simple to say focus on winning in defence and launching attacks from there into the open. Or more focus on controlled accurate ball movement. Or whatever. Not that hard but it gives a bit of a bench mark without giving anything away. 

You can't work it out just by watching us play?

He shouldn't need to explain it.  That's the point.

[old dee 23,704]

42 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would listen to the pressers LDC if some techno whiz could ensure that we hear the questions the coach is answering

FMD.  We dropped a bloke on the moon 50 years ago - can it be that difficult?

It beggars belief Bbo. It is the third decade of the 21st century for gods sake. 

[dworship 3,342]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

You can't work it out just by watching us play?

He shouldn't need to explain it.  That's the point.

Thank you JC WB finally someone who gets it. For clarification; it is still based on "Contested Footy", if you cannot see that then you haven't been paying attention. It has been tweaked and assisted by the use of great aerobic outside runners. There are other improvements.

It would not be in the Club's best interest for Goody to come out and say we are going to do this or that as it leaves the window open for too many members of the media and the supporter group to criticise and harp on if in their opinion X didn't happen. That kind of criticism often occurs without context and focuses on what the Coach said last ( you just watch what happens to Hinkley and how distracting it becomes to PA, unless they are super competitive.) To paraphrase Chookrat; less words are preferable, just do! Pretty sure that will be recognizable.

 

[bringbackthebiff 654]

A game style that is recognisable by a MFC supporter is generally losing. Ideally we play a game style that is unrecognisable...

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

29 minutes ago, dworship said:

Thank you JC WB finally someone who gets it. For clarification; it is still based on "Contested Footy", if you cannot see that then you haven't been paying attention. It has been tweaked and assisted by the use of great aerobic outside runners. There are other improvements.

Dworship you really like talking down to people don’t you. I had hoped for more insightful observation than someone being so condescending and rattling off a two year old mantra. The game style has cleary moves well beyond that this season. Perhaps you should try paying attention. 

[DeezNuts 624]

For Goody to highlight and label our “hard contested footy” as being something identifiable to the supporters, is an excellent way to describe team-non-negotiables, while at the same time, doesn’t give our game plan away in any micro or macro way. The shift in focus that Goody uses in press conference is clever in my mind.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Our forward line is still a mess.

[Dee Watcher 71]

In respect of game style/plan we'll really know when the pressure comes on! Do we have a plan B and can Goody adjust mid game and react to other coaches moves which has so far been a major weakness of his coaching groups.

Other Factors to consider: Last year we weren't fit enough and our preseason wasn't AFL standard that's on Goody, he has made the changes to staff and hopefully we see results from this, if we don't then Goody's last game will be Queens Birthday!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roger Mellie 3,950]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Our forward line is still a mess.

Yes, but I'm not really surprised. The Weed's been mostly in the ruck with Gawn out and Jackson has been finding his feet. Petracca didn't spend much time there on Friday either. Unsettled forward line and Wiedemann not clunking them. I'm relieved that Gawn's back but he forward line might take a few weeks to get it together.

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

20 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

You can't work it out just by watching us play?

He shouldn't need to explain it.  That's the point.

Love you to explain the i50 game plan. I must be much dumber than you. No I can’t work it out. I’ve been waiting to see it for 4 years. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, It's Time said:

Love you to explain the i50 game plan. I must be much dumber than you. No I can’t work it out. I’ve been waiting to see it for 4 years. 

As I see it, the idea has been to kick the ball to the hot spot around 15-35 metres out.  We want this to occur:

- Someone takes a pack mark resulting in a shot on goal.  If this doesn't happen, then:

- We aim to lock the ball inside 50 with our forward pressure, or look for quick repeat entries which will have us kicking to the hot spot again.

It worked quite well in 2018, not so well last year.  Obviously we can still hit up the leading player from time to time, or get a player one out (which ended up being Melksham in 2018) through a turnover, but that's been the basis of our 150 gameplan for a few years now.

And no, that doesn't make you dumber.  But your annoyance around Goodwin not sharing our game plan, word for word, with you just seems a little silly.

[Sir Why You Little 36,918]

31 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

As I see it, the idea has been to kick the ball to the hot spot around 15-35 metres out.  We want this to occur:

- Someone takes a pack mark resulting in a shot on goal.  If this doesn't happen, then:

- We aim to lock the ball inside 50 with our forward pressure, or look for quick repeat entries which will have us kicking to the hot spot again.

It worked quite well in 2018, not so well last year.  Obviously we can still hit up the leading player from time to time, or get a player one out (which ended up being Melksham in 2018) through a turnover, but that's been the basis of our 150 gameplan for a few years now.

 

What you are saying is correct

But isn’t that what every team wants to do in the i50?
A game plan to me is a team that can execute precision skills under many different pressure situations. 
We couldn’t do that last year coz our fitness was below AFL Level

Gameplans is just a media word used so old footballers can ramble on for hours and look clever. 
Skills in running Kicking Marking Handball and Tackling are the real Game Plan

when i see this happening weekly with the Demons it will be the recognizable standard we should all collectively expect and demand as Members 

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

33 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

As I see it, the idea has been to kick the ball to the hot spot around 15-35 metres out.  We want this to occur:

- Someone takes a pack mark resulting in a shot on goal.  If this doesn't happen, then:

- We aim to lock the ball inside 50 with our forward pressure, or look for quick repeat entries which will have us kicking to the hot spot again.

It worked quite well in 2018, not so well last year.  Obviously we can still hit up the leading player from time to time, or get a player one out (which ended up being Melksham in 2018) through a turnover, but that's been the basis of our 150 gameplan for a few years now.

And no, that doesn't make you dumber.  But your annoyance around Goodwin not sharing our game plan, word for word, with you just seems a little silly.

Thanks Wise. I never said word for word. If you see my original OP I said it could have been in general terms. I would have been very happy to hear him say something like we recognised i50's were a problem and supporters will see a better system. That's hardly word for word or giving anything away but it does give supporters a level of confidence that a major problem has been recognised and is being addressed. 

I agreet it was the game plan in 2018 and the whole industry knew it didn't work. We had 4 games that season where we had considerably more i50's but couldn't convert. From memory we set a couple of records for the highest i50 differential without winning. We would have finished 2nd in 2018 if we'd won those 4 games. If it isn't fixed we'll be very lucky to become contenders. IMHO if it is fixed we'll be well on our way. It has clearly been a significant problem since before he took over and he's never fixed it. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Thanks Wise. I never said word for word. If you see my original OP I said it could have been in general terms. I would have been very happy to hear him say something like we recognised i50's were a problem and supporters will see a better system. That's hardly word for word or giving anything away but it does give supporters a level of confidence that a major problem has been recognised and is being addressed. 

I agreet it was the game plan in 2018 and the whole industry knew it didn't work. We had 4 games that season where we had considerably more i50's but couldn't convert. From memory we set a couple of records for the highest i50 differential without winning. We would have finished 2nd in 2018 if we'd won those 4 games. If it isn't fixed we'll be very lucky to become contenders. IMHO if it is fixed we'll be well on our way. It has clearly been a significant problem since before he took over and he's never fixed it. 

I agree in part, although we aren't making a Prelim if our forward structure needed to be 'fixed'.  We were one of the best scoring teams in that year and the hiccups you mentioned above are natural.  I felt that, at the end of 2019, it needed to be tweaked, but then everything went belly up so it didn't matter as much.

I do agree that we need to lower our eyes a little more and use the ball better as we move through the centre of the ground, thus allowing us to hit players on the lead or at least give them a chance one on one, but I still think the main principle of what we aim to achieve inside 50 will essentially remain the same.

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree in part, although we aren't making a Prelim if our forward structure needed to be 'fixed'.  We were one of the best scoring teams in that year and the hiccups you mentioned above are natural.  I felt that, at the end of 2019, it needed to be tweaked, but then everything went belly up so it didn't matter as much.

I do agree that we need to lower our eyes a little more and use the ball better as we move through the centre of the ground, thus allowing us to hit players on the lead or at least give them a chance one on one, but I still think the main principle of what we aim to achieve inside 50 will essentially remain the same.

I reckon we had a good helping of luck in 2018 facing a beat up Eagles, GWS, Cats & Hawks. I know that was the internal view. So don't really agree that making the Prelim proved that the lack of system i50's didn't matter. We also had some blow out wins against very inferior teams that helped to disguise the problem. The top 4 teams last year don't deliver i50 the way we do. I really hope you're wrong that the principle is still going to be the same. We won't win a premiership doing that. Interestingly Lewis who is part of the coaching staff mentioned in the last game that they won't win games blazing away the way they were. So if he recognises it surely others in the coaching group do as well. I guess that's the challenge of being a commentator and being part of the coaching group. Are you speaking out of school.   I'm a bit surprised to be honest. The one training session I went to they were clearly practicing kicking the ball diagonally if necessary waiting for a clear lead to arrive rather than just kicking it long to the hot spot. They were also practicing leading patterns with dummy leads and then kicking it to a free player behind the lead. DIdn't see that really happening in the Marsh series.  

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, It's Time said:

I reckon we had a good helping of luck in 2018 facing a beat up Eagles, GWS, Cats & Hawks. 

I'll stop you there.

That's quite easy for you to say, and certainly supports your narrative, but we're still not making a Prelim if our forward structure needed major fixing.  You need a structure that at least functions well enough to use this 'luck' to our advantage.

Cheers.

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I'll stop you there.

That's quite easy for you to say, and certainly supports your narrative, but we're still not making a Prelim if our forward structure needed major fixing.  You need a structure that at least functions well enough to use this 'luck' to our advantage.

Cheers.

That's true to a point and certainly true against inferior opposition but we very nearly blew 3 out of 4 of those last games and the failure to capitalise on i50's had a lot to do with that.

Just relying on the fact we got to a Prelim and ignoring the state of the opposition is frankly a bit pointless. This isn't just my opinion it was an internal view and was voiced on several occasions last year by Goodwin and others. I just hope and pray that part of the highly secret or alternatively so obvious it doesn't need to be spoken about game style includes fixing the i50's or it's going to be another very frustrating season. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Just relying on the fact we got to a Prelim and ignoring the state of the opposition

I'm not ignoring the fact we knocked off the eventual premiers, GWS, Geelong and Hawthorn in what I'm talking about.

Look, we're going round and round and round in circles.  It's like talking to my five year old.

Yes, I acknowledge that forward of centre needed some work.  Some tweaking if you will.  I will, however, not accept that it was a major problem or needed major changes, especially at the end of 2018, after we won two finals and also went on a pretty handy winning streak in that same season.  I don't give a stuff about internal views or whatever.

We're going off topic anyway.  What we stand for, and how we play the game, is very evident to me and will hopefully be the same for you in time.  Goody doesn't need to spell it out for us.  

Cheers.

[Sir Why You Little 36,918]

4 minutes ago, It's Time said:

That's true to a point and certainly true against inferior opposition but we very nearly blew 3 out of 4 of those last games and the failure to capitalise on i50's had a lot to do with that.

Just relying on the fact we got to a Prelim and ignoring the state of the opposition is frankly a bit pointless. This isn't just my opinion it was an internal view and was voiced on several occasions last year by Goodwin and others. I just hope and pray that part of the highly secret or alternatively so obvious it doesn't need to be spoken about game style includes fixing the i50's or it's going to be another very frustrating season. 

Groucho

It is all based on fitness. Without fitness there is no skill level

mental and physical exhaustion ruins tactics of any sort

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,217]

Recognisable is one thing ... but it has to be an effective game style.

The 2019 game style was very recognisable... 

1.  All hard at the ball, no one on the outside to get the handball, and spillages from packs easy pickings for the opposition.

2.  Bombs inside 50, particularly when outnumbered.

3. Handball to team mates under pressure - see #1.

4. Kick to opposition players.

5. Don't spread.

6. Don't switch.

7. Kick points (rather than goals) wherever possible.

OK, so I'm jaded !!!! 

 

[Its Time for Another 4,187]

23 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Look, we're going round and round and round in circles.  It's like talking to my five year old.

I feel your five year old's frustration. Looks like you should try listening to him. He could obviously teach you a thing or two about football.  

[Sir Why You Little 36,918]

34 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I don't give a stuff about internal views or whatever.

 

Are you serious when you say this?

Let’s put  the 2018 Final Series Into perspective 

Weeks 1 & 2 We beat some reasnoable but ageing teams on our home deck. 
I enjoyed them immensely, i hate Jeelong and Whorethorn with all my black heart ? 

But week 3 We were pitted against a REAL OPPONENT under Hostile conditions and we got smashed and obliterated. 
 

2018 was an improvement but it was also far from good enough 

If we just replicate 2018 in 2020 we will go nowhere as we have done for 55 years

I want Flags, Back to Back Flags against the serious opposition 

To do that we must be Mentally and Physically the beat or equal to the best in the AFL

btw Internal views are very important 

They are the views that run the club...