1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Took the words out of my mouth.  Going along with the analogy, I would say that no sooner had we walked that we tripped over our own feet and fell flat on our face!

@Pates it's not so much that I'd see just making the bottom half of the 8 as complete failure, but it really wouldn't represent real progress to me either.  Similarly I've got to the point where I am indifferent finishing bottom half of the 8 compared to finishing in position 8 - 12 as neither really indicate to me that we would be getting any closer to actually winning a premiership.

I don't see that finishing top 4 is beyond us either we were a couple of close wins off it in 2018 and Brisbane came from outside the top 8 to finish top 4 last year, so as Peter Jackson put it in his Demonland podcast a while back, these things don't always follow a linear trajectory.

I don't necessarily disagree with you and @rjay but the other point is that there have been premiership winners from outside the top 4 in recent season. We should definitely be aiming for top 4, if we're not aiming for the best then I'd be questioning the mentality of the club. But I'm also a realist, and again continuing the analogy I would say that we jumped from crawling to junning and tripped ourselves up, perhaps in order to get to the pinacle we will have to be content this year with walking in preparation for the sprint to the top.

10 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

2017 rd 23 v Collingwood. Yes that was a few years ago now but that typifies Melbourne. 
 

2018 preliminary v WCE. We had momentum, we’d beaten them there already during the season. Goalless at 1/2 time. 

There are numerous games but those two are classic examples.

Too often we are slow starters, we take what we perceive to be easy beats too lightly. We struggle to put sides away. Players not working hard enough thinking their teammates will pick up the slack. Lack of skill is one thing, lack of effort is another. Even when the leadership is poor players can take it upon themselves to standup but very few did. 

 

 

 

Supporters can think that way, players don't.

On 2/17/2020 at 1:47 PM, brendan said:

Geelong could slide Selwood is injured and in doubt for round 1, Kelly gone, if danger fell over then fair chance they could be bottom 4 

No. Don't let it be so. I want them on a sloooowwww slide down the ladder, say three years around 9-11 so they aren't in the race but aren't finding the absolute cream draft picks...then after a couple of recruiting  blunders they slip into 13-16 territory for let's say four more years before absolutely bottoming out in a winless season, then recover to finish 12th for four more years. 

And the same for Hawthorn so I can enjoy an impotent Jeff Kennett howling in the pages of the Hun every few months.

On 2/16/2020 at 9:22 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Who cares about top 8 spots anyway.

If we don't make top 4, then we are just making up the numbers when it comes to a genuine tilt at a flag.

I thought the players would! And the coaching team. And the Club.

 

4 hours ago, pitmaster said:

No. Don't let it be so. I want them on a sloooowwww slide down the ladder, say three years around 9-11 so they aren't in the race but aren't finding the absolute cream draft picks...then after a couple of recruiting  blunders they slip into 13-16 territory for let's say four more years before absolutely bottoming out in a winless season, then recover to finish 12th for four more years. 

And the same for Hawthorn so I can enjoy an impotent Jeff Kennett howling in the pages of the Hun every few months.

Haha I bet you like twisting the knife too 

2 hours ago, Dingo said:

I thought the players would! And the coaching team. And the Club.

 

I guess making finals might mean something to our membership, sponsorship and perhaps some revenue from playing a couple of finals, but asides from that finishing in positions 5 - 8 is pretty much meaningless and hardly worth any more than finishing 8 - 12.

The club has stated in recient days that it has an aim of a mens premiership in the next 4 years.  Premierships don't happen from outside the top 4, so if the club is serious, then just making finals can't be an achievement of any real significance.

Edited February 19, 20205 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

6 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I guess making finals might mean something to our membership, sponsorship and perhaps some revenue from playing a couple of finals, but asides from that finishing in positions 5 - 8 is pretty much meaningless and hardly worth any more than finishing 8 - 12.

The club has stated in recient days that it has an aim of a mens premiership in the next 4 years.  Premierships don't happen from outside the top 4, so if the club is serious, then just making finals can't be an achievement of any real significance.

Ridiculous !

Aims are Finals snd one Flag!

5-8 could be 14/15 wins for season !

better than 5????

bloody oath 

4 hours ago, 58er said:

Ridiculous !

Aims are Finals snd one Flag!

5-8 could be 14/15 wins for season !

better than 5????

bloody oath 

Aims can't just be finals though.  Finals without a realistic oppertunity at a flag, are a frustrating waste of time.  I could handle finishing in the top 4 and getting knocked out, because that would suggest that we are actually close to winning a flag.  The MFC consistenly made finals for the best part of 20 odd years, but never really had a serious crack at a flag, because it almost always stumbled into the top 6/top 8 and even when it made it through to the last game in September the team was physically stuffed and played up against well rested outfits.  Same deal in the 2018 prelim.

If the club and the players give themselves a pat on the back for making the bottom half of the 8, then to me that would say they are not fair dinkum.

Time to get serious and raise the bar.  I want the club to be ruthless and relentless in pursuit of that illusive flag.

Edited February 19, 20205 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

On 2/16/2020 at 9:22 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Who cares about top 8 spots anyway.

If we don't make top 4, then we are just making up the numbers when it comes to a genuine tilt at a flag.

 

If the Western Bulldogs had this attitude in 2016 they would still have the longest premiership drought.

Now we have it.  

On 2/16/2020 at 7:15 PM, Bring-Back-Powell said:

According to Dal Santo and other gutsy media pundits, the 8 won’t change despite at least 2 changes every year since the final 8 was introduced in 1994

North, Hawthorn and Port to replace Essendon and 2 other clubs that cop significant injuries. And yes it could be Richmond who couldn’t cover for their injuries at one stage mid season (losing to Geelong by 75 during their worst plight)

The descriptor on Nicky D was a joke, right?

Very much a fence sitter but looks good on the tele.

On 2/17/2020 at 8:53 AM, ManDee said:

I think Champion data do a fair job of counting but they are terrible at analysis.

Very good point here MD

Champion Data are interesting in- season because the data is as close to real time as you can get.

In 2018, I found David King's insights using this data interesting and he never lost the faith because of the what he saw the indicators doing inside the Dees.

However, they don't produce forecasting material. Just predictions based on history and now have rated our list as poor, when in fact a non-existent pre-season for last season was the issue and doesn't translate to a 2020 forecast.

Burgess and other factors need to be factored which they don't do.

Just stats collectors really and should be seen as such.

2 hours ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

 

If the Western Bulldogs had this attitude in 2016 they would still have the longest premiership drought.

Now we have it.  

Bulldogs were what the only team to win a flag from outside the top 4 in 20 years?

Don't get me wrong if we repeated what the Bulldogs did, I'd be estatic, but it's not the percentage play by a long way.

2018 was a drought breaker and I was very glad to see us just make finals and each to their own, but as a supporter, I no longer see just making finals as a very worthy achievement or representing much of a step forward.

16 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Aims can't just be finals though.  Finals without a realistic oppertunity at a flag, are a frustrating waste of time.  I could handle finishing in the top 4 and getting knocked out, because that would suggest that we are actually close to winning a flag.  The MFC consistenly made finals for the best part of 20 odd years, but never really had a serious crack at a flag, because it almost always stumbled into the top 6/top 8 and even when it made it through to the last game in September the team was physically stuffed and played up against well rested outfits.  Same deal in the 2018 prelim.

If the club and the players give themselves a pat on the back for making the bottom half of the 8, then to me that would say they are not fair dinkum.

Time to get serious and raise the bar.  I want the club to be ruthless and relentless in pursuit of that illusive flag.

That's why they have the 4 year Plan Rodney!!!

Adam Cooney on SEN this morning; "There's probably two or three spots in the eight up for grabs"

3 hours ago, one_demon said:

Adam Cooney on SEN this morning; "There's probably two or three spots in the eight up for grabs"

You're in trouble mate when Adam Cooney is echoing your thoughts. He's an absolute gronk.

There are 8 spots up for grabs because the [censored] season hasn't even started yet.

54 minutes ago, A F said:

You're in trouble mate when Adam Cooney is echoing your thoughts. He's an absolute gronk.

Wouldn't matter who made the comment,  How did I know. 

Edited February 23, 20205 yr by one_demon

On 2/23/2020 at 2:34 PM, A F said:

You're in trouble mate when Adam Cooney is echoing your thoughts. He's an absolute gronk.

Who's the gronk now?

6 hours ago, one_demon said:

Who's the gronk now?

Not sure what you're trying to say here. You think that's vindicated something you said?

2 hours ago, A F said:

Not sure what you're trying to say here. You think that's vindicated something you said?

Yes my original post was correct.  It also appears the so called "Gronk" was also correct.  So I wonder who is actually the gronk here. 

Edited September 22, 20204 yr by one_demon

Your original post said GWS would make the 8 and I was calling Cooney the gronk, not you...

7 minutes ago, A F said:

Your original post said GWS would make the 8 and I was calling Cooney the gronk, not you...

You're not getting it,  that's OK.

8 minutes ago, A F said:

gronk

All Dinosaurs Say Gronk

The Apatasaurus says Gronk.
The Tyrannosaurus says Gronk.
The Red-Rimmed Ecclesiasaurus says Gronk.
The Right-Winged Perturbasaur says Gronk.
The Diogenes Lantern Fossil says Gronk.
The Grated Pterodactyl says Gronk.
The Lichtenstein Lizard-Bird says Gronk.
The Augmented alligatosaur says Gronk.
The Brown-Bellied Brontosaur says Gronk.
All dinosaurs say Gronk.