The Breaking of Nathan Jones

[Adam The God 30,703]

40 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I know it's only one match but it was against the Filth.  I'll take equal 9th (statistically) from the Jones boy as a medium HF any day till someone else can shift him out of that spot.

And sure it's not the chunk we once knew about 3 seasons or so ago.  He's been a bit of a turnover king for a few seasons now. Which is why a HF role is more suited imho.  Turnovers not as damaging to the team in this part of the ground.

Even on season averages he is ranked 14th out of 34 who've played so far this season.  Statistically still well inside the top 22.  Who is ready to replace him right at this point who you could say with 100% certainty would do it better?

If you enjoy doing what you do you also tend to do it better.  Don't think i've seen Jones as happy as he was in the last match for some time.  He carried us through some awful times and sure he's on the wrong side of the slope.  Yes in a very strong team he might have been asked to move on at the end of last year but the FD saw fit for him to play on and he still might have a part to play in our finals destiny.  Who knows he might even turn back the clock occasionally in this next block of matches (or finals!) and surprise us all plus get to the 300 mark!

The other reason he might have been asked to continue....maybe a voice of experience on the field as an on field leader for the younger blokes?  Can't say i've seen any evidence myself so far but who knows.

Good luck Chunk

Player	Score	Rank
Angus Brayshaw	4.475	1
Christian Salem	4.125	2
Clayton Oliver	4.125	2
Ed Langdon	3.850	4
Steven May	3.425	5
James Harmes	2.950	6
Christian Petracca	2.900	7
Tom Sparrow	2.525	8
Nathan Jones	2.325	9
Michael Hibberd	2.325	9
Braydon Preuss # *	2.150	11
Charlie Spargo	1.900	12
Jake Lever	1.900	12
Tom McDonald #	1.750	14
Jake Melksham	1.700	15
Jack Viney	1.675	16
Jay Lockhart	1.475	17
Adam Tomlinson	1.450	18
Sam Weideman	1.375	19
Bayley Fritsch	1.100	20
Kysaiah Pickett	0.800	21
Aaron Vandenberg	0.500	22
Team Score	50.800
Top 6	22.950
Bottom 6	6.700

Yep, it was definitely his best game for a while. Probably two or three years. He stays in for the moment.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

41 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Well if you hang around long enough anything can happen.

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

17 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Imagine if the club had decided to ditch Robbie Flower at the end of 1986, rather than let him retire on his own terms.

Obviously there are some differences between Jones and Robbie and if there was a total parallel, then it could be argued that if Jones were Robbie, then he probably would have seen the writing on the wall and retired at the end of 2018 and gone out on somewhat of a high.

But similar to Robbie, Jones stuck with us through thick and thin when we were a total basket case and at his prime could easily have gone seeking greener grass at another club elsewhere chasing a flag/finals like Frawley.

Time for the MFC to repay the faith.  Also thinking we don't have many veterans, so I'd assume that we could pay a fair portion of his salary outside the cap (whatever that ends up being next year).

Sorry, but no comparison. Robbie was still well and truly playing well enough for his spot to never be under scrutiny. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

34 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep, it was definitely his best game for a while. Probably two or three years. He stays in for the moment.

Rubbish ranking having him ahead of Spargo

[Half forward flank 1,022]

17 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Imagine if the club had decided to ditch Robbie Flower at the end of 1986, rather than let him retire on his own terms.

Obviously there are some differences between Jones and Robbie and if there was a total parallel, then it could be argued that if Jones were Robbie, then he probably would have seen the writing on the wall and retired at the end of 2018 and gone out on somewhat of a high.

But similar to Robbie, Jones stuck with us through thick and thin when we were a total basket case and at his prime could easily have gone seeking greener grass at another club elsewhere chasing a flag/finals like Frawley.

Time for the MFC to repay the faith.  Also thinking we don't have many veterans, so I'd assume that we could pay a fair portion of his salary outside the cap (whatever that ends up being next year).

Sorry, but no comparison. Robbie was still well and truly playing well enough for his spot to never be under scrutiny. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

So very Melbourne from some supporters.

The team has a chance to play finals and play well but some here choose 300 games milestone over weekly selection of the best 22.

[old55 23,856]

3 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

So very Melbourne from some supporters.

The team has a chance to play finals and play well but some here choose 300 games milestone over weekly selection of the best 22.

Absolutely no-one has said that.

[Foopy on the telly 534]

3 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

So very Melbourne from some supporters.

The team has a chance to play finals and play well but some here choose 300 games milestone over weekly selection of the best 22.

But he is best 22... he’s playing well on the half forward flank. Plus if our finals chances rest on whether a 292 gamer plays or not then we don’t even deserve to make the finals.

So why not have both?

 

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

I know it's only one match but it was against the Filth.  I'll take equal 9th (statistically) from the Jones boy as a medium HF any day till someone else can shift him out of that spot.

And sure it's not the chunk we once knew about 3 seasons or so ago.  He's been a bit of a turnover king for a few seasons now. Which is why a HF role is more suited imho.  Turnovers not as damaging to the team in this part of the ground.

Even on season averages he is ranked 14th out of 34 who've played so far this season.  Statistically still well inside the top 22.  Who is ready to replace him right at this point who you could say with 100% certainty would do it better?

If you enjoy doing what you do you also tend to do it better.  Don't think i've seen Jones as happy as he was in the last match for some time.  He carried us through some awful times and sure he's on the wrong side of the slope.  Yes in a very strong team he might have been asked to move on at the end of last year but the FD saw fit for him to play on and he still might have a part to play in our finals destiny.  Who knows he might even turn back the clock occasionally in this next block of matches (or finals!) and surprise us all plus get to the 300 mark!

The other reason he might have been asked to continue....maybe a voice of experience on the field as an on field leader for the younger blokes?  Can't say i've seen any evidence myself so far but who knows.

Good luck Chunk

Player	Score	Rank
Angus Brayshaw	4.475	1
Christian Salem	4.125	2
Clayton Oliver	4.125	2
Ed Langdon	3.850	4
Steven May	3.425	5
James Harmes	2.950	6
Christian Petracca	2.900	7
Tom Sparrow	2.525	8
Nathan Jones	2.325	9
Michael Hibberd	2.325	9
Braydon Preuss # *	2.150	11
Charlie Spargo	1.900	12
Jake Lever	1.900	12
Tom McDonald #	1.750	14
Jake Melksham	1.700	15
Jack Viney	1.675	16
Jay Lockhart	1.475	17
Adam Tomlinson	1.450	18
Sam Weideman	1.375	19
Bayley Fritsch	1.100	20
Kysaiah Pickett	0.800	21
Aaron Vandenberg	0.500	22
Team Score	50.800
Top 6	22.950
Bottom 6	6.700

Totally disagree with this comment.  Look at the good sides, the ones that will be challenging for a flag.  They have multiple avenues to score - if it's not through forward half domination (ie get it out of the centre, then lock it in), then they can make the switch to have their best scoring avenue to come from the back half.

Given how our backline is going at the moment, I would expect a team like Geelong would need to set their forward entries to start in their backline, chipping around half back then going through the corridor.  That's where a slow player like Jones will see us slaughtered in a final against these types of sides.

(If you read that last paragraph, it's exactly the way they beat us earlier in this season).

[Ethan Tremblay 31,378]

Whilst Jones continues to be selected in the starting 22, he will play. 

[Youngwilliam 381]

30 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Sorry, but no comparison. Robbie was still well and truly playing well enough for his spot to never be under scrutiny. 

Robbie Flower's playing days never had social media. I wore Robbie's number on my back as a kid and being up Albury way I didn't hear of any bad games or Flower goes missing. That may he due to my age at the time as well. The world outside looking into the club has changed forever.

[roy11 4,058]

If he doesn't get it this year, if rosters are being reduced then i fear he'll be stuck Bradmanesque. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

31 minutes ago, nacnud said:

But he is best 22... he’s playing well on the half forward flank. Plus if our finals chances rest on whether a 292 gamer plays or not then we don’t even deserve to make the finals.

So why not have both?

 

Well, he has not been best 22 for all of the year. Not sure what you mean on finals chances?  

[Half forward flank 1,022]

35 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Absolutely no-one has said that.

Says you.

 

[old55 23,856]

1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

Says you.

 

Quotes please.

[Foopy on the telly 534]

6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Well, he has not been best 22 for all of the year. Not sure what you mean on finals chances?  

Well he’s best 22 now, that’s the point.

I meant that I reckon it’s possible to have jones playing (in the form he’s in) and make the finals. You made it sound like you can only have one or the other.

[old55 23,856]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Whilst Jones continues to be selected in the starting 22, he will play. 

OK, I think you're ready to take off the training wheels now Ethan and make a try at conditional logic.

If Nathan Jones is in MFC best 22

And MFC Best 22 is playing against Footscray this week

Then Nathan Jones is playing against Footscray this week

Give it a try

Edited August 18, 2020 by Pollyanna

[Demon Dynasty 17,162]

48 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Totally disagree with this comment.  Look at the good sides, the ones that will be challenging for a flag.  They have multiple avenues to score - if it's not through forward half domination (ie get it out of the centre, then lock it in), then they can make the switch to have their best scoring avenue to come from the back half.

Given how our backline is going at the moment, I would expect a team like Geelong would need to set their forward entries to start in their backline, chipping around half back then going through the corridor.  That's where a slow player like Jones will see us slaughtered in a final against these types of sides.

(If you read that last paragraph, it's exactly the way they beat us earlier in this season).

So out of curiosity who are you replacing Jones with Chazz?

[The Chazz 4,077]

32 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

So out of curiosity who are you replacing Jones with Chazz?

Good question, that will take a complex response.

As I look at it, I think of the players out of the side at the moment that either should be in, or are competing.  Gawn, Jackson, Bennell, Rivers, ANB and Hannan are the most realistic group that form part of a combination of players to come back in (*I'm not suggesting all have to come in);

- Gawn is a no-brainer, and will take the place of Preuss.

- Jackson's season is likely over, so that saves the argument about Jackson vs TMc (which Goody might've seen room for both, who knows).

- I really rate Rivers, and even though he is a kid, I feel that he deserves a spot in the team based on exposed form.  If he is going to be played off the HBF, then does that mean we move Harmes out in general, or can he move to a HFF role?

- Bennell is the enigma in all of this.  I feel that in most games he's been going at around 35-40%.  Can we afford to carry that in to a final?  When he plays on instinct, you can tell the class is there, but are the mental scars worth the gamble?  We know his best is better than most in the team.

- ANB, while disliked by many on here especially, is a role player.  ANB's best is satisfactory, and Jones' best is way beyond him.

- Hannan I rate, but has accepted that some weeks he's poor.

So, who do I replace Jones with?  I'd be seriously looking at Bennell.  A 35-40% Bennell is of much better value than a Jones that is probably at 75% of his best.  To be honest, I'd actually prefer Rivers in the side, but don't think Harmes should be dropped because of this.

We then hear that Bedford kicked 4 in the scratch match on the weekend, so what could he bring to a half forward line?

[hardtack 11,085]

1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

OK, I think you're ready to take off the training wheels now Ethan and make a try at conditional logic.

If Nathan Jones is in MFC best 22

And MFC Best 22 is playing against Footscray this week

Then Nathan Jones is playing against Footscray this week

Give it a try

I get the feeling that Ethan is working towards the release of a desktop calendar, with a pithy one line observation at the bottom of each page; a la public service issue calendars that always seemed to have sayings by the mysterious WPG.

[hardtack 11,085]

30 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

So, who do I replace Jones with?  I'd be seriously looking at Bennell.  A 35-40% Bennell is of much better value than a Jones that is probably at 75% of his best.  To be honest, I'd actually prefer Rivers in the side, but don't think Harmes should be dropped because of this.

As much as I like Bennell, I'd disagree with this.  Despite not having the pace that he used to have, Jones did lay a couple of important tackles on Saturday (with good second efforts), whereas Bennell seems to have been avoiding tackling, rather waiting for the ball to emerge so he can run with it.  I get the feeling that Bennell is being played more to test his calves and build some endurance, but we won't be seeing anything near his best until next year, after a full pre-season.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

47 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Good question, that will take a complex response.

As I look at it, I think of the players out of the side at the moment that either should be in, or are competing.  Gawn, Jackson, Bennell, Rivers, ANB and Hannan are the most realistic group that form part of a combination of players to come back in (*I'm not suggesting all have to come in);

- Gawn is a no-brainer, and will take the place of Preuss.

- Jackson's season is likely over, so that saves the argument about Jackson vs TMc (which Goody might've seen room for both, who knows).

- I really rate Rivers, and even though he is a kid, I feel that he deserves a spot in the team based on exposed form.  If he is going to be played off the HBF, then does that mean we move Harmes out in general, or can he move to a HFF role?

- Bennell is the enigma in all of this.  I feel that in most games he's been going at around 35-40%.  Can we afford to carry that in to a final?  When he plays on instinct, you can tell the class is there, but are the mental scars worth the gamble?  We know his best is better than most in the team.

- ANB, while disliked by many on here especially, is a role player.  ANB's best is satisfactory, and Jones' best is way beyond him.

- Hannan I rate, but has accepted that some weeks he's poor.

So, who do I replace Jones with?  I'd be seriously looking at Bennell.  A 35-40% Bennell is of much better value than a Jones that is probably at 75% of his best.  To be honest, I'd actually prefer Rivers in the side, but don't think Harmes should be dropped because of this.

We then hear that Bedford kicked 4 in the scratch match on the weekend, so what could he bring to a half forward line?

I'd go with the future, not the past.
 Rivers or next Bedford.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Fork 'em

[Adam The God 30,703]

1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

Good question, that will take a complex response.

As I look at it, I think of the players out of the side at the moment that either should be in, or are competing.  Gawn, Jackson, Bennell, Rivers, ANB and Hannan are the most realistic group that form part of a combination of players to come back in (*I'm not suggesting all have to come in);

- Gawn is a no-brainer, and will take the place of Preuss.

- Jackson's season is likely over, so that saves the argument about Jackson vs TMc (which Goody might've seen room for both, who knows).

- I really rate Rivers, and even though he is a kid, I feel that he deserves a spot in the team based on exposed form.  If he is going to be played off the HBF, then does that mean we move Harmes out in general, or can he move to a HFF role?

- Bennell is the enigma in all of this.  I feel that in most games he's been going at around 35-40%.  Can we afford to carry that in to a final?  When he plays on instinct, you can tell the class is there, but are the mental scars worth the gamble?  We know his best is better than most in the team.

- ANB, while disliked by many on here especially, is a role player.  ANB's best is satisfactory, and Jones' best is way beyond him.

- Hannan I rate, but has accepted that some weeks he's poor.

So, who do I replace Jones with?  I'd be seriously looking at Bennell.  A 35-40% Bennell is of much better value than a Jones that is probably at 75% of his best.  To be honest, I'd actually prefer Rivers in the side, but don't think Harmes should be dropped because of this.

We then hear that Bedford kicked 4 in the scratch match on the weekend, so what could he bring to a half forward line?

This is the guy I'd go with. But make him earn it. Let's see how Jones plays against the Dogs, if he stands up, maybe we look at one of our other guys coming out for Bedford. Maybe Kozzie for a rest. We want pressure and work rate in the role. Jones is bringing that, but he's not bringing goals and as I've said previously, can get lost in transition.

[The Chazz 4,077]

2 hours ago, hardtack said:

As much as I like Bennell, I'd disagree with this.  Despite not having the pace that he used to have, Jones did lay a couple of important tackles on Saturday (with good second efforts), whereas Bennell seems to have been avoiding tackling, rather waiting for the ball to emerge so he can run with it.  I get the feeling that Bennell is being played more to test his calves and build some endurance, but we won't be seeing anything near his best until next year, after a full pre-season.

Yeah, I hear you, HT!  I just fast forward to a Prelim against the Eagles at Optus, or Geelong/Brisbane/Richmond on the Gabba, and can't help but thing that we are going to need everything to go right, as well as pulling a couple of things out of our backsides to get up.  Smart teams will play through our weakest links, and for the Eagles who like to run, that will be playing through our slowest players.

Where HB has it over Jones for mine is that if we can get 5 minutes of brilliance out of him, it could be enough to add a 2 or 3 goals on to our score.  This isn't something Jones could do.

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 hour ago, A F said:

This is the guy I'd go with. But make him earn it. Let's see how Jones plays against the Dogs, if he stands up, maybe we look at one of our other guys coming out for Bedford. Maybe Kozzie for a rest. We want pressure and work rate in the role. Jones is bringing that, but he's not bringing goals and as I've said previously, can get lost in transition.

The Dogs are quite a fast side.  We will know a bit more about Jones' effectiveness going forward after this weekend I think.  If we win and he continues to be visibly slow, then he has to go.  If we can't beat the Dogs, then we are just making up numbers so they might as well keep playing him.