I just wonder if we have done a deal with GWS of some sort to ensure they get their extra top 5 player. It is a huge gamble if not by them.

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I just wonder if we have done a deal with GWS of some sort to ensure they get their extra top 5 player. It is a huge gamble if not by them.

It's hard to see how that could benefit us given it's unlikely Young or Jackson would get through to pick 8 even if they passed on them.

It is a strange one though, i just genuinely think they have someone in mind assuming Jackson, and they think he is better than Green so if we bid 3 they're happy for us to take him. otherwise they'll grab two players.

3 hours ago, binman said:

All very valid questions. The club has a big call.

Two other factors are relevant I reckon.

The most important of those is that really, really good bigs are very hard to find. The draft is stacked with good flankers (could be rhyming slang?) and mids. So perhaps we get ash instead of young. But we won't get another jackson.

The second factor is more speculation on my part. I wonder, given his athletisim, whether jackson might actually be played as a mid (ie with gawn still rucking). Say rotating wirh petracca. Would be formidable I would have thought.

I see this as the reason we would look at taking Jackson at 3.

I think in the context of our list and the recruits we’ve already grabbed (Langdon, Tomlinson, Bennel) our focus shifted from most complete player in Young at 3 for a potential game breaker who offers us something unique and potentially very hard to counter in Jackson.

As others have said we can grab a worse version of Young later in the draft, but not of Jackson. 
 

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by PaulRB

3 hours ago, SFebes said:

Is there any possibility that he is being considered as a KPF and not as a ruck? A 10 year mobile CHF?

I think he is a ruck first and a 3rd tall forward.  Very quick, athletic but not a great contested mark.   Does add X factor 

2 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I think he is a ruck first and a 3rd tall forward.  Very quick, athletic but not a great contested mark.   Does add X factor 

I don't see him as direct competition for Weideman (who is a 2nd forward) but I think Jackson would actually play as the number 1 key forward if deployed in the forward line. He has the size and presence to be the main target, create-a-contest type like a Tom Lynch, Tex, Walker, Travis Cloke, etc.

I think this is part of the problem with T-Mac too, as he's more of a very good 3rd forward roaming far and wide, using his mobility to advantage. If we're expecting him to be number 1 KPF we're in trouble.

 

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

I don't see him as direct competition for Weideman (who is a 2nd forward) but I think Jackson would actually play as the number 1 key forward if deployed in the forward line. He has the size and presence to be the main target, create-a-contest type like a Tom Lynch, Tex, Walker, Travis Cloke, etc.

I think this is part of the problem with T-Mac too, as he's more of a very good 3rd forward roaming far and wide, using his mobility to advantage. If we're expecting him to be number 1 KPF we're in trouble.

 

Don't agree with that. Jackson has no goal kicking pedigree. His best use up forward would be creating contests at times but otherwise just staying out of the way by occupying a man. That's how West Coast, Brisbane etc other successful teams with 2 rucks play.

On the other hand Tom McDonald put up 1.5 seasons of high quality key forward play. He had 2 excellent finals both with goal kicking and up the ground play and paired well with Weideman. He's not a dominant goal kicker like Lynch but he's capable of doing it up the ground and inside 50 and we need to find the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th goal kickers to play alongside him so that we've got options. Fritsch is one option. Weid's and Petty competing for the other. A small forward needed for the 4th. Then you work the match ups and game style and find the guy who's day it is to kick the goals. Tom's versatility is a strength not a reason to doubt him.

3 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

It's hard to see how that could benefit us given it's unlikely Young or Jackson would get through to pick 8 even if they passed on them.

It is a strange one though, i just genuinely think they have someone in mind assuming Jackson, and they think he is better than Green so if we bid 3 they're happy for us to take him. otherwise they'll grab two players.

I meant some sort of deal to ensure we don’t nominate Green, otherwise they will get only Green and have wasted their traded picks.

17 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I meant some sort of deal to ensure we don’t nominate Green, otherwise they will get only Green and have wasted their traded picks.

I assumed that's what you meant, i just don't see what we would get out of such a deal given the other guys are would want aren't going to slide far enough. 

17 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I assumed that's what you meant, i just don't see what we would get out of such a deal given the other guys are would want aren't going to slide far enough. 

No.

It has nothing to do with players sliding to us, we have first live pick.

However if we nominate Green and they match and then lose pick 4 in the process GWS only get 1 top 5 player. If we don’t nominate Green they will get him and another player at 4. To ensure we don’t nominate Green we could get something from them. It might be a later pick swap or the promise of a player next year, whatever, but at least get something.

Otherwise we allow them to get 2 top 5 players with no issue. 

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Redleg

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Don't agree with that. Jackson has no goal kicking pedigree. His best use up forward would be creating contests at times but otherwise just staying out of the way by occupying a man. That's how West Coast, Brisbane etc other successful teams with 2 rucks play.

On the other hand Tom McDonald put up 1.5 seasons of high quality key forward play. He had 2 excellent finals both with goal kicking and up the ground play and paired well with Weideman. He's not a dominant goal kicker like Lynch but he's capable of doing it up the ground and inside 50 and we need to find the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th goal kickers to play alongside him so that we've got options. Fritsch is one option. Weid's and Petty competing for the other. A small forward needed for the 4th. Then you work the match ups and game style and find the guy who's day it is to kick the goals. Tom's versatility is a strength not a reason to doubt him.

 

I don't think goal kicking has anything to do with it.
It's about presenting as the number 1 target who continually makes a contest, competes to prevent opposition intercept marks and brings your crumbers into the game. It's not always about pure marks and goals.

4 hours ago, Mach5 said:

I don't see him as direct competition for Weideman (who is a 2nd forward) but I think Jackson would actually play as the number 1 key forward if deployed in the forward line. He has the size and presence to be the main target, create-a-contest type like a Tom Lynch, Tex, Walker, Travis Cloke, etc.

I think this is part of the problem with T-Mac too, as he's more of a very good 3rd forward roaming far and wide, using his mobility to advantage. If we're expecting him to be number 1 KPF we're in trouble.

 

Interesting post this, mate. Collingwood's forwardline has functioned around Cox's height and merely competing for the better part of two seasons now. Cox is a good kick, but not as mobile as Jackson.

I don't mind the idea of deploying Jackson in our forwardline in a similar way. It enables, as you imply, Tmac to play up the ground and Weideman to play second or third fiddle, whilst also play a few smalls around them. Jackson just has to compete and ensure the opposition can't run it out of our forward 50 easily. His mobility will help here.

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by A F

13 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

I don't think goal kicking has anything to do with it.
It's about presenting as the number 1 target who continually makes a contest, competes to prevent opposition intercept marks and brings your crumbers into the game. It's not always about pure marks and goals.

The number 1 target better be the guy who kicks the goals or the system isn't working. At his best Cox is an important part of the Pies make up but it's Jordan De Goey and sometimes Stephenson who get the good kicks directed their way. If you isolated Pies inside 50 targets that we directed to players and not safe long bombs I think De Goey would be miles ahead of Cox.

I'm pro Jackson, but you don't take a guy at pick 3 because they might be able to chip in with a bit of grunt work. Too much is being made IMO about JT saying Jackson can play forward as he develops. 

It's no difference to if JT said Gus Brayshaw or Clarry would play forward in their first seasons. It's nice. But it's not at all why they were drafted with top 5 picks.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

Interesting post this, mate. Collingwood's forwardline has functioned around Cox's height and merely competing for the better part of two seasons now. Cox is a good kick, but not as mobile as Jackson.

I don't mind the idea of deploying Jackson in our forwardline in a similar way. It enables, as you imply, Tmac to play up the ground and Weideman to play second or third fiddle, whilst also play a few smalls around them. Jackson just has to compete and ensure the opposition can't run it out of our forward 50 easily. His mobility will help here.

Structurally Cox has his moments of importance but Collingwood's forward line functions around getting the ball to JDG one out. The big yank serves his purpose on slow plays but it wouldn't take much for Preuss to do that job. Jackson should be able to do it better, but that's just a way to develop him until he takes the number 1 ruck role. We're drafting him to be the next Grundy not the next Cox.

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Don't agree with that. Jackson has no goal kicking pedigree. His best use up forward would be creating contests at times but otherwise just staying out of the way by occupying a man. That's how West Coast, Brisbane etc other successful teams with 2 rucks play.

On the other hand Tom McDonald put up 1.5 seasons of high quality key forward play. He had 2 excellent finals both with goal kicking and up the ground play and paired well with Weideman. He's not a dominant goal kicker like Lynch but he's capable of doing it up the ground and inside 50 and we need to find the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th goal kickers to play alongside him so that we've got options. Fritsch is one option. Weid's and Petty competing for the other. A small forward needed for the 4th. Then you work the match ups and game style and find the guy who's day it is to kick the goals. Tom's versatility is a strength not a reason to doubt him.

Jackson has still got so much upside.  The bloke was completely focused on bball up until age 16

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Demons11

10 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Jackson has still got so much upside.  The bloke was completely focused on bball up until age 16

Wasn't Petracca? And he was a gun junior goal kicker.

Once again, I'm pro Jackson as a great ruck prospect who can be of use forward and contribute early in his career. 

But all the athleticism and upside in the world won't convince me a goal a game at WAFL colts is any kind of goal kicking forward. Best case scenario as a forward is probably more like Josh Jenkins and that's best case.

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Wasn't Petracca? And he was a gun junior goal kicker.

Once again, I'm pro Jackson as a great ruck prospect who can be of use forward and contribute early in his career. 

But all the athleticism and upside in the world won't convince me a goal a game at WAFL colts is any kind of goal kicking forward. Best case scenario as a forward is probably more like Josh Jenkins and that's best case.

Jackson is in a completely different league in bball compared to Trac.  Jackson was the best player for Australia in an under 17 competition 

 

50 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The number 1 target better be the guy who kicks the goals or the system isn't working. At his best Cox is an important part of the Pies make up but it's Jordan De Goey and sometimes Stephenson who get the good kicks directed their way. If you isolated Pies inside 50 targets that we directed to players and not safe long bombs I think De Goey would be miles ahead of Cox.

Maybe we should just play Hayden Young at full forward 'Jaydn Stephenson style' with pick 3 and with his accuracy and speed, have him kick them from all angles and distances ? ahaha
 

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by John Demonic

So it seems like this is going to happen, and I have no idea how to feel about it.  Taking a big bloke like Jackson at 3 is a massive gamble, and we don't exactly have a great track record when we gamble in the draft.  

That's not to say the kid won't be a star, but something isn't sitting right with this one.  I might need a bit on convincing if we go ahead with it.

Petty shoedat the end of the season he

1 hour ago, A F said:

Interesting post this, mate. Collingwood's forwardline has functioned around Cox's height and merely competing for the better part of two seasons now. Cox is a good kick, but not as mobile as Jackson.

I don't mind the idea of deploying Jackson in our forwardline in a similar way. It enables, as you imply, Tmac to play up the ground and Weideman to play second or third fiddle, whilst also play a few smalls around them. Jackson just has to compete and ensure the opposition can't run it out of our forward 50 easily. His mobility will help here.

Where does Petty fit in?  He showed great promise as a key forward at the end of the season

I have him as our 2nd tall next to T Mac.

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

No.

It has nothing to do with players sliding to us, we have first live pick.

However if we nominate Green and they match and then lose pick 4 in the process GWS only get 1 top 5 player. If we don’t nominate Green they will get him and another player at 4. To ensure we don’t nominate Green we could get something from them. It might be a later pick swap or the promise of a player next year, whatever, but at least get something.

Otherwise we allow them to get 2 top 5 players with no issue. 

That's a good point, they have pick 40 i believe, i wonder if we will do something with that and get a pick earlier than 97 to go with 3, 8 in this years draft in exchange for not bidding on Green. 

I personally would love to see the live trading include players though, I think that would make the draft night live trading very exciting. 

8 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

That's a good point, they have pick 40 i believe, i wonder if we will do something with that and get a pick earlier than 97 to go with 3, 8 in this years draft in exchange for not bidding on Green. 

I personally would love to see the live trading include players though, I think that would make the draft night live trading very exciting. 

Now you are with me.

13 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I personally would love to see the live trading include players

That would mean players could be traded with no warning and without their consent to any club in any State.  

I don't reckon that's fair and I doubt the Players' Association would agree to it.

11 minutes ago, demonstone said:

That would mean players could be traded with no warning and without their consent to any club in any State.  

I don't reckon that's fair and I doubt the Players' Association would agree to it.

Nor do i, but i'd like to see it happen. the NBA offers trading without the players permission at times and it's something i find enjoyable. would certainly help the bottom sides to become competitive faster. 

He plays like a midfielder, his athleticism is freakish, potential to be a star play as a tall mid, kpp or ruck. 

49 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

That's a good point, they have pick 40 i believe, i wonder if we will do something with that and get a pick earlier than 97 to go with 3, 8 in this years draft in exchange for not bidding on Green. 

I personally would love to see the live trading include players though, I think that would make the draft night live trading very exciting. 

Never going to happen. They still need points to match the bid. 97 is not going to give them any