4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The saints game we dropped at the G cost us also.

Agree. Fair chance we'd have made the GF if we'd beat the saints.

Would have finished 3rd and played WCE away in week 1. Win that and it's a week off and a home prelim probably against Collingwood (assuming form held true) or Geelong (if it didn't). 

Had we lost to the Eagles in week 1 we'd have been home in week 2  against GWS. Win that and we have another game in Melbourne. 

Anyway, fantasy booking...probably only relevant in sports entertainment ? (questionable even then) 

2 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Agree. Fair chance we'd have made the GF if we'd beat the saints.

Would have finished 3rd and played WCE away in week 1. Win that and it's a week off and a home prelim probably against Collingwood (assuming form held true) or Geelong (if it didn't). 

Had we lost to the Eagles in week 1 we'd have been home in week 2  against GWS. Win that and we have another game in Melbourne. 

Anyway, fantasy booking...probably only relevant in sports entertainment ? (questionable even then) 

an interesting hypothesis..actually it is.   I reckon though had we made the GF...it might have been 1988 all over again

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

an interesting hypothesis..actually it is.   I reckon though had we made the GF...it might have been 1988 all over again

Yep

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

We matched them in the second half of the prelim only being -4pts. 8.5.53 - 7.7.49..... the problem isn't the prelim, its surgeries, injuries and coaching.

Haha ? what an absolute Loser Attitude to cling onto

The Damage was all executed by Half time

Meth Coke only needed to hold us at bay, to walk into a GF  

 We were absolutely hung drawn and quartered in that first half,  and i don’t think Goodwin wants to confront that fact.

But he will have to do it, if he wants to keep his job long term. 

Studying psychology for a number of years tells me that, and that is what this is...

 

Edited July 18, 20195 yr by Sir Why You Little

17 hours ago, daisycutter said:

don't you just love the smell of a masochist in the evening just before turning in for the night............jaizus

As a matter of fact I do dc.

An olfactory treat.

To blame it on the PF is a bit like saying its the bullet from a firing squad that ended the prisoners life. It's really about the journey to that point and in our case how we managed to be a band of dead men walking even before the first bounce that day.

So in some ways... a coach saying they didnt take anything away from that game is I suppose correct. What is there to learn from a thrashing like that...other than one simple thing. Don't get yourself into that position.

Here's that 'by design" issue again. We got into that mess all by ourselves really. We plotted the course  to that game...but we just weren't really paying attention to all the metrics.

In many ways  West Coast didnt win that game as we absolutely LOST it...before the bounce.  We still lose much of our football by the very way we go about things. These are all by direction. Nothing really happens by chance The players don't just rock up on the day and ad-lib ,though any casual , or even we seasoned ones, may be forgiven for thinking they do just that. No, they are enacting a series of instructions.  They're just not good ones, though they are goodwins !!

42 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

To blame it on the PF is a bit like saying its the bullet from a firing squad that ended the prisoners life. It's really about the journey to that point and in our case how we managed to be a band of dead men walking even before the first bounce that day.

So in some ways... a coach saying they didnt take anything away from that game is I suppose correct. What is there to learn from a thrashing like that...other than one simple thing. Don't get yourself into that position.

Here's that 'by design" issue again. We got into that mess all by ourselves really. We plotted the course  to that game...but we just weren't really paying attention to all the metrics.

In many ways  West Coast didnt win that game as we absolutely LOST it...before the bounce.  We still lose much of our football by the very way we go about things. These are all by direction. Nothing really happens by chance The players don't just rock up on the day and ad-lib ,though any casual , or even we seasoned ones, may be forgiven for thinking they do just that. No, they are enacting a series of instructions.  They're just not good ones, though they are goodwins !!

No. I cannot agree with that. 

Meth Coke did their homework ? and Systematically pulled us apart to perfection..

46 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. I cannot agree with that. 

Meth Coke did their homework ? and Systematically pulled us apart to perfection..

They pulled apart a half dead turkey.

But yes they certainly  knew how to make a meal of it. Granted

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I disagree

Otherwise we wouldn’t still be playing the same way...

Meth Coke will run rampant this weekend, i will bet my left one...

Listen I've bit my tongue for 5 months now but this (like your the club will never move forward till everyone involved with 186 is gone) is ridiculous.

You are one of the many who lives in the past moaning about your sad 55 years following the club, let me set you straight this playing group has nothing to do with the past

They are not haunted by Norm Smith

186 is nothing to them now, (it would if anything made the Elimination final win a little more enjoyable for Chunk  Gawn and anyone else who was on the list)

The Neeld years

The only legacy the past has on this list is the void caused by poor drafting in between the Danners and Neeld eras

The players will be well and truly over the Prelim final loss or did you miss Bakers debut at Optus when we kicked ourselves out of the game.

This weeks game has nothing to do with last season

BB is somewhat right about being run into the ground at the end of the season but they went for broke and fell short.

You roll the dice and this is where we are at, seasoned players get conditioned to that

I anticipate the old " You just accept mediocrity" response but  you couldn't be further from the truth.

mark this down.

Until the core of Oliver,  Brayshaw, Harmes, Weid, Trac, Lever, Spargo, Frost, Baker, Salem, Pruess, Gawn, Hannan, Hore and Petty get a decent spread of between 80-150 games across them and Viney, May, Tmac, Melksham start pushing 150+ we will not see consistent top 4 contention over successive years.

Others will come in and out but that is the core moving forward for sustained contention. It's the legacy left because of the recruiting mistakes which left the void

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

They pulled apart a half dead turkey.

But yes they certainly  knew how to make a meal of it. Granted

No. We went over there to win and got completely blindsided. 

That is the bottom line and why the Coach has no idea what to do. 

We were completely unprepared for that outcome. 

5 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Listen I've bit my tongue for 5 months now but this (like your the club will never move forward till everyone involved with 186 is gone) is ridiculous.

You are one of the many who lives in the past moaning about your sad 55 years following the club, let me set you straight this playing group has nothing to do with the past

They are not haunted by Norm Smith

186 is nothing to them now, (it would if anything made the Elimination final win a little more enjoyable for Chunk  Gawn and anyone else who was on the list)

The Neeld years

The only legacy the past has on this list is the void caused by poor drafting in between the Danners and Neeld eras

The players will be well and truly over the Prelim final loss or did you miss Bakers debut at Optus when we kicked ourselves out of the game.

This weeks game has nothing to do with last season

BB is somewhat right about being run into the ground at the end of the season but they went for broke and fell short.

You roll the dice and this is where we are at, seasoned players get conditioned to that

I anticipate the old " You just accept mediocrity" response but  you couldn't be further from the truth.

mark this down.

Until the core of Oliver,  Brayshaw, Harmes, Weid, Trac, Lever, Spargo, Frost, Baker, Salem, Pruess, Gawn, Hannan, Hore and Petty get a decent spread of between 80-150 games across them and Viney, May, Tmac, Melksham start pushing 150+ we will not see consistent top 4 contention over successive years.

Others will come in and out but that is the core moving forward for sustained contention. It's the legacy left because of the recruiting mistakes which left the void

A brilliant and well articulated response.

This nerds to be quoted more on here.

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. We went over there to win and got completely blindsided. 

That is the bottom line and why the Coach has no idea what to do. 

We were completely unprepared for that outcome. 

Of course we went to win....that might well have been the name on the Desto board...but there was practically  no petrol in the tank . 

That in and  of itself left us vulnerable., esp  as they had plotted our obliteration.

Desire is one thing. .ability another.

We'll  just disagree  on the rest. Cheers 

 

2 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Listen I've bit my tongue for 5 months now but this (like your the club will never move forward till everyone involved with 186 is gone) is ridiculous.

You are one of the many who lives in the past moaning about your sad 55 years following the club, let me set you straight this playing group has nothing to do with the past

They are not haunted by Norm Smith

186 is nothing to them now, (it would if anything made the Elimination final win a little more enjoyable for Chunk  Gawn and anyone else who was on the list)

The Neeld years

The only legacy the past has on this list is the void caused by poor drafting in between the Danners and Neeld eras

The players will be well and truly over the Prelim final loss or did you miss Bakers debut at Optus when we kicked ourselves out of the game.

This weeks game has nothing to do with last season

BB is somewhat right about being run into the ground at the end of the season but they went for broke and fell short.

You roll the dice and this is where we are at, seasoned players get conditioned to that

I anticipate the old " You just accept mediocrity" response but  you couldn't be further from the truth.

mark this down.

Until the core of Oliver,  Brayshaw, Harmes, Weid, Trac, Lever, Spargo, Frost, Baker, Salem, Pruess, Gawn, Hannan, Hore and Petty get a decent spread of between 80-150 games across them and Viney, May, Tmac, Melksham start pushing 150+ we will not see consistent top 4 contention over successive years.

Others will come in and out but that is the core moving forward for sustained contention. It's the legacy left because of the recruiting mistakes which left the void

Believe whatever you like Pennant. It is of no consequence to me. 186, last years PF, they all just roll on, with one continuous outcome. We don’t learn from them enough or hate them enough. 

We are “spooked” by them though i have no doubt. 

Same for the ‘87 Preliminary Last Quarter ( that was a real Spook)

‘88 we just got murdered as was 2000....

You can say events are not connected all you like, i just don’t agree...

and we are now entering year 56.....

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. We went over there to win and got completely blindsided. 

That is the bottom line and why the Coach has no idea what to do. 

We were completely unprepared for that outcome. 

You are showing a total lack of football understanding.

Watch the Hawks final, we were showing signs of fatigue, Gawn was cooked

We were effectively playing Elimination finals for the last 6 weeks of the season H&A and finals, you can only stay up for so long until you crash physically and emotionally. 

Had we managed to finish top 4 and get a double chance I believe things would have been different but that is hindsight 

I went to the PF expecting to be well beaten  I just didn't expect it to transpire the way it did. I expected us to give it a good crack in the first half but for fatigue to set in. 

The boys had an absolute crack first 5 to 10 mins getting nothing from some forward entries  it was an absolute cauldron 60k home crowd very conditions, you could see the boys wilting in the first quarter 

The fact you fail to acknowledge fatigue was a factor and it was all down to Simpson and Co is laughable 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Believe whatever you like Pennant. It is of no consequence to me. 186, last years PF, they all just roll on, with one continuous outcome. We don’t learn from them enough or hate them enough. 

We are “spooked” by them though i have no doubt. 

Same for the ‘87 Preliminary Last Quarter ( that was a real Spook)

‘88 we just got murdered as was 2000....

You can say events are not connected all you like, i just don’t agree...

and we are now entering year 56.....

Mate half our playing list wasn't even alive when all this went down.. yet somehow its all connected to our current playing group..? I'm sorry, how does that even work??

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Believe whatever you like Pennant. It is of no consequence to me. 186, last years PF, they all just roll on, with one continuous outcome. We don’t learn from them enough or hate them enough. 

We are “spooked” by them though i have no doubt. 

Same for the ‘87 Preliminary Last Quarter ( that was a real Spook)

‘88 we just got murdered as was 2000....

You can say events are not connected all you like, i just don’t agree...

and we are now entering year 56.....

you could have just said PSD your post has to much footy acumen and knowledge for me to provide a response 

Go away come back in 2 to 3 years when we are consistent

Oh wait I hear a choice of

a) This club won't survive 2 to 3 more years

b) I've waited long enough 

c) I've heard that all to often from this club, I fork out good money and expect a response from the President or CEO

Is SWYL pronounced "swill"?

8 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

You are showing a total lack of football understanding.

Watch the Hawks final, we were showing signs of fatigue, Gawn was cooked

We were effectively playing Elimination finals for the last 6 weeks of the season H&A and finals, you can only stay up for so long until you crash physically and emotionally. 

Had we managed to finish top 4 and get a double chance I believe things would have been different but that is hindsight 

I went to the PF expecting to be well beaten  I just didn't expect it to transpire the way it did. I expected us to give it a good crack in the first half but for fatigue to set in. 

The boys had an absolute crack first 5 to 10 mins getting nothing from some forward entries  it was an absolute cauldron 60k home crowd very conditions, you could see the boys wilting in the first quarter 

The fact you fail to acknowledge fatigue was a factor and it was all down to Simpson and Co is laughable 

Of course fatigue was a factor, when did i ever deny that. I put that down to Goodwin’s coaching. He only knows one way, which is why we haven’t seen any change of style this year. 

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Mate half our playing list wasn't even alive when all this went down.. yet somehow its all connected to our current playing group..? I'm sorry, how does that even work??

Dazzle i am suprised you do not understand history inside a Football Club

events are connected, regardless of personel. 

Take the opposite Scenario...Whorethorn will bounce back because the Club over many generations does not accept failure...

We don’t have that anymore...

10 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

you could have just said PSD your post has to much footy acumen and knowledge for me to provide a response 

Go away come back in 2 to 3 years when we are consistent

Oh wait I hear a choice of

a) This club won't survive 2 to 3 more years

b) I've waited long enough 

c) I've heard that all to often from this club, I fork out good money and expect a response from the President or CEO

Ok then tell me why this Team in 2019 cannot hit a target, not in one game, but all year?

It’s all upstairs above the shoulders....

The 2018 PF blew a big hole ? in the psyche of our Coaches and Players, injuries have also contributed, but I consider them to be less of a factor. 

The skill level of those on the park tells me that...

We are 17th on the ladder come this Sunday, saved only by the Soulless Gold Coast of a Wooden Spoon ? 

 

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Dazzle i am suprised you do not understand history inside a Football Club

events are connected, regardless of personel. 

Take the opposite Scenario...Whorethorn will bounce back because the Club over many generations does not accept failure...

We don’t have that anymore...

There is something  to this. I agree

Our culture...well....no idea what it is tbh.

As a club, i often feel like a punch drunk boxer.

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Dazzle i am suprised you do not understand history inside a Football Club

events are connected, regardless of personel. 

Take the opposite Scenario...Whorethorn will bounce back because the Club over many generations does not accept failure...

We don’t have that anymore...

No Sir i understand history of a football club quiet well.

I have played at football clubs that a performance that has happened back in the 80s or early 2000s has no bearing at all on our todays game day performance, none. Nor have our coaches rammed anything down our throats about whats happened back in the past.

 I could not give two [censored] what happaned back in those days. Me and 22 other blokes only care on how we perform as a team right now moving.

So again, a history or past has NO effecton current day performance week in week out.

 

4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I was hoping you could. I now have to decide whether you can't help me or won't help me. 

My point is, that you have an opinion that it's about the PF and the lack of any review.  I just happen not to share that opinion. You think there's an obvious correlation; I think it's far more nuanced than that. 

'Nuance' is a word the perennially outraged do not know. Black and white solutions are preferred.

"It's the PF! It's the PF!"

"It's Goodwin! It's Goodwin!"

Is as if the more they say it, the more it will become true

Our 2018 wins all came in our late season roll.

West Coast was indeed meritorious, but no Darling or Kennedy made our job easier.

We should have beaten Geelong every time last year. The Cats were ordinary in 2018. The made it to 5th on the back of their stars. We justly punted then in the Elim.

The Hawks also over acheived in 2018, and yet were still in their final against us. That they lost both finals suggests they were teetering.

GWS were a soft kill.

The key aspect of Melbourne's 2018 - for me, at any rate - was that we struggled against well organised defences, the same Achilles heel we had in both 2017 and 2019. 

That is where we are at. If Goodwin can't get us playing with obvious cohesion in 2020, with obvious connection into the forward 50, and with obvious improvement against the better sides, he has to go.

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Listen I've bit my tongue for 5 months now but this (like your the club will never move forward till everyone involved with 186 is gone) is ridiculous.

You are one of the many who lives in the past moaning about your sad 55 years following the club, let me set you straight this playing group has nothing to do with the past

They are not haunted by Norm Smith

186 is nothing to them now, (it would if anything made the Elimination final win a little more enjoyable for Chunk  Gawn and anyone else who was on the list)

The Neeld years

The only legacy the past has on this list is the void caused by poor drafting in between the Danners and Neeld eras

The players will be well and truly over the Prelim final loss or did you miss Bakers debut at Optus when we kicked ourselves out of the game.

This weeks game has nothing to do with last season

BB is somewhat right about being run into the ground at the end of the season but they went for broke and fell short.

You roll the dice and this is where we are at, seasoned players get conditioned to that

I anticipate the old " You just accept mediocrity" response but  you couldn't be further from the truth.

mark this down.

Until the core of Oliver,  Brayshaw, Harmes, Weid, Trac, Lever, Spargo, Frost, Baker, Salem, Pruess, Gawn, Hannan, Hore and Petty get a decent spread of between 80-150 games across them and Viney, May, Tmac, Melksham start pushing 150+ we will not see consistent top 4 contention over successive years.

Others will come in and out but that is the core moving forward for sustained contention. It's the legacy left because of the recruiting mistakes which left the void

Great post, but you're banging your head against a brick wall.  The bloke will never, ever change.  

He thinks the club is haunted by all these things when in fact it's him whose haunted by it all.