We are due for a Rebuild.

[Redlegged 81]

A lot doom-mongering here. Wait and see what happens. It is not a 'fact' that the 'wheels have fallen off'. You can expect the media to relish sticking in the boots - doesn't help when the supporters do the same.

[Redlegged 81]

1 minute ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Equally, peremptory change can be both necessary and courageous.

Would you want the wrong doctor performing open heart surgery on your child? Or would you prefer others not to wet their pants and get knickers in a twist if strong doubts arose?

This club is bleeding heavily at the moment. Prelim to bottom 3. Some of you are in shock about it.

 

2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Equally, peremptory change can be both necessary and courageous.

Would you want the wrong doctor performing open heart surgery on your child? Or would you prefer others not to wet their pants and get knickers in a twist if strong doubts arose?

This club is bleeding heavily at the moment. Prelim to bottom 3. Some of you are in shock about it.

 

2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Equally, peremptory change can be both necessary and courageous.

Would you want the wrong doctor performing open heart surgery on your child? Or would you prefer others not to wet their pants and get knickers in a twist if strong doubts arose?

This club is bleeding heavily at the moment. Prelim to bottom 3. Some of you are in shock about it.

A lot doom-mongering here. Wait and see what happens. It is not a 'fact' that the 'wheels have fallen off'. You can expect the media to relish sticking in the boots - doesn't help when the supporters do the same.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

27 minutes ago, olisik said:

Your over rating Weed, Trac and Tmac here who combined today for a total of 1 tackle.

Also most trades are not as simple as pick for player. We could package one of our 3rd or 2nd rounders + Hunt or Omac to move up the draft in a compounding fashion. 

We almost were able to offload pick 23+ Trengove for a pick to net us Lever, only for us to end up paying 2 first rounders 2 years later.

Petracca has deficiencies but is otherwise playing steady solid footy across half forward. You’d only trade him if you didn’t think you could improve him.

Weid is ok but not good. Tom is in awful form and might get worse or might get back to a 50 goal forward. Either way you couldn’t trade 1 yet alone 2 of them without a mature replacement. 

Gawn, Oliver, May, Viney, Harmes, Salem, Lever, Jetta, Melksham are all in their prime, you can’t just turf the side around the for kids.

Petracca, Brayshaw, McDonald are good enough to contribute to a good side.

Not to mention Hibberd, Frost, Fritsch, Lockhart and several others who I think could easily play in a genuine top 4 side.

I’d rather take a leave out of Colligwood, Richmond and Geelong than doing a Port and trading out for kids and never having enough prime age talent 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 minute ago, Redlegged said:

You can expect the media to relish sticking in the boots 

Hope so! 

Why shouldn't this club be held accountable? Bring it on.

[Redlegged 81]

Sorry - last reply went to the wrong thread.  Your 'heart surgery on the the child analogy" is misplaced. Talk about hyperbole!

[drysdale demon 4,832]

8 minutes ago, Redlegged said:

Correct. And if Melbourne (egged on by the media and 'supporter' drama queens)  wets it pants into making another peremptory sacking, it will set it back another 5 years. And so it goes.

Fully agree and that's all it would be, only a weak club would sack a coach at this stage

[Moonshadow 17,676]

45 minutes ago, olisik said:

Jayden Stephenson, Connor Rozee and Sam Walsh say hi. Plenty of recent players who have been drafted who eclipse our players. 

So you want us to use picks no 6, 5 and 1 in this year's draft? Brilliant!

I'll go one better. Lets use picks 1-10.

Small problem: how do we get them?

1967 rang, they want their LSD back.

[Redlegged 81]

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

Fully agree and that's all it would be, only a weak club would sack a coach at this stage

Correct. It would be totally destructive. Totally stupid. And totally unwarranted. 

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

30 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Wholeheartedly agree. Josh Mahoney fingerprints on that one. Weak and pathetic to throw away an extra first round pick like that without a fight. It doesn't happen at Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn etc. 

It's amateur hour at Melbourne. That's probably an insult to well run VAFA A grade clubs.

Trelaor, Shiel, Wingard. Thanks for playing.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

2 hours ago, olisik said:

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

Do you sit at home waiting for us to lose so you can post? 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you sit at home waiting for us to lose so you can post? 

Rhetorical question, I'm thinking...

[WERRIDEE 5,478]

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, FROST, HORE

C : SALEM, OLIVER, HARMES

HF: HUNT, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: MELKSHAM, WEIDEMAN, T.SMITH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: JONES, LOCKHART, BAKER, FRITSCH

 

CASEY

B: LEWIS, O.MCDONALD, JORDON

HB: KOLODJASHNIJ, PETTY, J.WAGNER

C : STRETCH, MAYNARD, C.WAGNER

HF: NEAL-BULLEN, KEILTY, VANDENBERG

F: GARLETT, J.SMITH, HANNAN

FOLL: PREUSS, SPARROW, SPARGO

IC: KENNEDY HARRIS, DUNKLEY, CHANDLER, BEDFORD

EMERG: BRADTKE, NEITSCHKE, WALKER

 

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Our midfield was [censored] today usually it's our strength. We will have a top 5 pick and we will have plenty of delistings in Lewis, O.Mac, J.Wagner, Stretch, Maynard, Keilty, Garlett and Kennedy Harris. We need a key forward and small forward. We will be better next year.

[olisik 4,060]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you sit at home waiting for us to lose so you can post? 

Errr no? You did notice I was posting about Jones sublime disposal when we were winning today’s match? Or do you have selective sight to match your made up narrative? 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Trelaor, Shiel, Wingard. Thanks for playing.

Top shelf elite midfielders - worth two first round picks.

Intercept marking defender - worth one.

Hawks traded in Wingard for pick 15 and Ryan Burton (second rounder). Not even in this discussion.

MB fades back. Swish. And that's the game!!

 

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

[olisik 4,060]

14 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

So you want us to use picks no 6, 5 and 1 in this year's draft? Brilliant!

I'll go one better. Lets use picks 1-10.

Small problem: how do we get them?

1967 rang, they want their LSD back.

Errr you seem to miss the point, which was that you don’t need to wait 4 years for a player to perform. Nowhere did I say ‘let’s draft 3 players in top 6’ but ok, invent your own narrative as per usual.

Anyway that said, we could easily aim for 2 top 5 picks. We will already have one, trade forward our 2020 pick + a player for the other. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 minute ago, olisik said:

Errr you seem to miss the point, which was that you don’t need to wait 4 years for a player to perform. Nowhere did I say ‘let’s draft 3 players in top 6’ but ok, invent your own narrative as per usual.

Anyway that said, we could easily aim for 2 top 5 picks. We will already have one, trade forward our 2020 pick + a player for the other. 

Panic stations have been hit! ?

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

3 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Top shelf elite midfielders - worth two first round picks.

Intercept marking defender - worth one.

Hawks traded in Wingard for pick 15 and Ryan Burton (second rounder). Not even in this discussion.

MB fades back. Swish. And that's the game!!

 

 

Wingard and future 3rd for Burton (pick 19 - first rounder), pick 15, pick 35 and a future 4th.

That's clearly more than the Lever deal which was picks 10 and 19 for Lever and 35. I didn't love the Lever trade and wanted less on the downgrade to pick 35 but winning plenty of games last year and making it pick 19 made it a good deal. Good recruiters - which is what you want the club to have - should be able to find similar hit rates at 19 or 35 and Lever for 10 is a steal.

Lever is meant to be an elite intercept marking defender, a player just as valuable as a gun midfielder. If you think Sicily or Darcy Moore aren't as valuable as a gun midfielder then you haven't been watching many games recently. Yet alone the dream of what Lever could become if developed well - a McGovern level force that teams have to tag. 

Shiel and Treloar both have breakaway pace but absolutely butcher the ball. They are players a good midfield team can counter. 

Wingard would rather play playstation than AFL football. 

We are due for a rebuild: Of our fitness department and assistant coaches, not of trading out a bunch of players.

[picket fence 17,151]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Geelong traded out (pretty much delisted) Menzel.

Bought in:
Rohan - cheap trade
Dahlhaus - free agent
Fist round draft pick Jordan Clark
VFL player upgrade - Tom Atkins
Previour pick - Gryan Miers
Ablett forward

And had a whole new forward line.

We can make maybe 1 subtraction, 3 or 4 additions to beef up the forward line, get some training time and quality together in the midfield get the backline healthy and things can change very quickly.

Yeah but Geelong are progressive and take chances with Recruits, we worry about the car they drive and if they wear  a Tie!!

[picket fence 17,151]

Well  a light in the black today was Steven May

LEADER...... I SAY AGAIN LEADER

LOVED the masterful way he took a developing Sam Frost to account for an errant punch and love his Generalship!

Jones can play next year. Viney same BUT

MAY is the no no nonsense leader we haven't had since Ronald Dale

Apologies Rob

If this club is fair dinkum then need to make this change!

MAY FOR CAPT!

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by picket fence

[dee-tox 4,835]

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yeah but Geelong are progressive and take chances with Recruits, we worry about the car they drive and if they wear  a Tie!!

Yeah, the likes of Melksham, Preuss, Hibberd, May and Lever are all school tie-types!

Idiotic comment.

[Macca 16,965]

1 hour ago, Thehardtackler said:

Petracca is worth 2-3 goals a game when we are playing well. Brayshaw brings hardness and skill and may be our best player. I think both players are not part of the problem. If anything, we need more players like them from the draft.

Correct ... the perennial problem of having poor depth and too many C & D graders on the list (and in the senior side) is the real issue.

We just aren't good enough talent-wise so the turning over of the list continues on.

We need to add in 6 to 8 good players to be a real contender but it's difficult to even add in 2 good players in any given year.  Add in 3 good players in one season and you're doing very well.

In the meantime,  the number of good players that we do have can start dissipating due to age or loss of form.  The good news is that most of our good players aren't veterans.

But the reality is that you can't really have 1 year in this league where you don't recruit well.  And because of our poor recruiting (previously) we don't have anywhere enough good players on the list who are 26 years old or older. 

That age demographic can be compensated if we had an abundance of talent aged 26 or younger but that just isn't the case.  There was a reason why we've had to recruit seasoned veterans.  Most of them came cheap so that wasn't a problem but the chasm still remains

If Oliver,  Petracca,  Brayshaw,  Salem,  Harmes,  Viney and a few others were 2 or 3 years older it's a different conversation.  So we're playing catch-up with the usual obstacles in the way.

It's hard work building a great list. And you need top coaching and great admin to go with it.  And as most are now quite aware,  there is a luck factor with drafting so nailing picks is easier said than done.  And to acquire decent free agents a club has to go hard really early with lots of dollars on offer. 

The good news is that it isn't 2012 or 2013.  We are in a much better position even though this years W/L record is abysmal.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Macca

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Wingard and future 3rd for Burton (pick 19 - first rounder), pick 15, pick 35 and a future 4th.

That's clearly more than the Lever deal which was picks 10 and 19 for Lever and 35. I didn't love the Lever trade and wanted less on the downgrade to pick 35 but winning plenty of games last year and making it pick 19 made it a good deal. Good recruiters - which is what you want the club to have - should be able to find similar hit rates at 19 or 35 and Lever for 10 is a steal.

Lever is meant to be an elite intercept marking defender, a player just as valuable as a gun midfielder. If you think Sicily or Darcy Moore aren't as valuable as a gun midfielder then you haven't been watching many games recently. Yet alone the dream of what Lever could become if developed well - a McGovern level force that teams have to tag. 

Shiel and Treloar both have breakaway pace but absolutely butcher the ball. They are players a good midfield team can counter. 

Wingard would rather play playstation than AFL football. 

We are due for a rebuild: Of our fitness department and assistant coaches, not of trading out a bunch of players.

We could debate this back and forth forever. The key point is that we did not have to pay Adelaide’s ambit asking price for Lever because we had the whip hand in negotiations. He was out of contract! To cave in on day two of trade week the way we did was an absolute disgrace. Weak, overly generous, amateur hour trading.

Played for the suckers we are.

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

40 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Do you sit at home waiting for us to lose so you can post? 

Yes he does. He has history. Never met a supporter so triggered after a loss ? 

Win a game and the #olisikmyths goes missing. You wont get anything positive out of his poor soul

Edited June 30, 2019 by dazzledavey36

[olisik 4,060]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes he does. He has history. Never met a supporter so triggered after a loss ? 

Win a game and the #olisikmyths goes missing. You wont get anything positive out of his poor soul

Reported for thread derailing.