PREGAME: Rd 14 vs Fremantle

[Lord Nev 13,512]

24 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

TMac and Weid have kicked a combined 18 goals in 20 games this season. That’s not one but your TWO key forwards combining for less than a goal per AFL game. This despite Melbourne having had the SECOND highest number of forward entries among all eighteen clubs in 2019 thus far. 

Posters who keep defending these two really should read that paragraph again and just let those returns sink in for a minute or two.

If that doesn’t make them quite possibly the two players with the most pressure on them in the league I don’t know what else they’d have to do (or in their case, not do).

Hogan will be looking to impress though, no doubt. 

Just for comparison sake (per game this year so far):

Weideman (21 years old) - 1 goal, 1.8 tackles, 0.4 goal assists, 1.5 marks inside 50, 1.5 contested marks, 11.1 disposals at 73% efficiency.

Hogan (24 years old) -  1.2 goals, 1 tackle, 0.4 goal assists, 1.8 marks inside 50, 1 contested mark, 15 disposals at 63.5 efficiency.

Not saying Weideman is as good as Hogan of course, but I think Weideman is being harshly judged on his season thus far in the context of his age, injuries and our weaknesses as a team with forward structure/coaching, delivery forward and consistency of personnel.

To paint our issues as merely the fault of Weideman and McDonald is very shallow analysis.

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

28 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

To paint our issues as merely the fault of Weideman and McDonald is very shallow analysis.

I haven’t done this. I’ve merely pointed out their dual failures so far in 2019 as key forwards. It’s beyond dispute. 

I concur that there are other issues negatively affecting team performance well.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Matsuo Basho

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

I haven’t done this. I’ve merely pointed out their dual failures so far in 2019 as key forwards. It’s beyond dispute. 

I don’t dispute there are other issues negatively affecting team performance well.

 

1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

If that doesn’t make them quite possibly the two players with the most pressure on them in the league I don’t know what else they’d have to do (or in their case, not do).

?

[Demonland 72,180]

27 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Just for comparison sake (per game this year so far):

Weideman (21 years old) - 1 goal, 1.8 tackles, 0.4 goal assists, 1.5 marks inside 50, 1.5 contested marks, 11.1 disposals at 73% efficiency.

Hogan (24 years old) -  1.2 goals, 1 tackle, 0.4 goal assists, 1.8 marks inside 50, 1 contested mark, 15 disposals at 63.5 efficiency.

Not saying Weideman is as good as Hogan of course, but I think Weideman is being harshly judged on his season thus far in the context of his age, injuries and our weaknesses as a team with forward structure/coaching, delivery forward and consistency of personnel.

To paint our issues as merely the fault of Weideman and McDonald is very shallow analysis.

 

These stats tell me is that things would not have transpired differently in 2019 had we kept Hogan.

[Demon3 2,541]

Hogan has not had a good year though, played 2 ok games for the entire Season. If the club doesnt know how he plays and what his weaknesses are then the Coaching committee is not worth a pinch of...

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Demonland said:

These stats tell me is that things would not have transpired differently in 2019 had we kept Hogan.

Yeah he hasn't been in great form up until recently that's for sure.

I do think we miss his ability to help spread our forward line as well as his delivery inside 50 which was quite good though. But the solution to our horrible fall this year is definitely more than just 1 key forward IMO.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,819]

33 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Just for comparison sake (per game this year so far):

Weideman (21 years old) - 1 goal, 1.8 tackles, 0.4 goal assists, 1.5 marks inside 50, 1.5 contested marks, 11.1 disposals at 73% efficiency.

Hogan (24 years old) -  1.2 goals, 1 tackle, 0.4 goal assists, 1.8 marks inside 50, 1 contested mark, 15 disposals at 63.5 efficiency.

Not saying Weideman is as good as Hogan of course, but I think Weideman is being harshly judged on his season thus far in the context of his age, injuries and our weaknesses as a team with forward structure/coaching, delivery forward and consistency of personnel.

To paint our issues as merely the fault of Weideman and McDonald is very shallow analysis.

 

I reckon Weideman isn't far away from a break out 4 goal game.

Had he nailed his last set shot V's Collingwood he would've had a nice 3 goal performance against Darcy Moore who's clearly one of the premier key defenders in the league.

Slowly but surely he's getting there.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,819]

12 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Hogan has not had a good year though, played 2 ok games for the entire Season. If the club doesnt know how he plays and what his weaknesses are then the Coaching committee is not worth a pinch of...

I reckon Hogan will have a much better second half of the year and those modest stats mentioned above will skew the other way.

He had a heavily compromised pre season and also fitting into a new system.

I, like many others, got seduced into T Mac's season last year and was all too ready to punt Hogan.

[Brownie 5,980]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I don't mind it if Fritsch actually lines up as selected in the forward line.  Great mark and very good kick for goal.   Will do a lot for his confidence as he looks a bit lost as a defender.

He will be at least one player back in his natural position.  Now to put Gus back where he belongs in the middle. 

 

With the change of coaches our line ups and positional changes during the game will be interesting to watch as will our ball movement.  Hopefully, more control than manic play on. 

And hopefully if Oliver gets 25-35 possessions they have an impact and gain more than 55mts!  We need him to get much more value for his work.

I wonder if Rawlings pushed for Fritsch forward. I hope he gets a good couple of games in the forward line to prove himself. He's a natural up there I reckon

[Lord Nev 13,512]

6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I wonder if Rawlings pushed for Fritsch forward. I hope he gets a good couple of games in the forward line to prove himself. He's a natural up there I reckon

Don't take it as gospel that Fritsch will play forward. Goody tends to not worry too much about actual positions on the team sheet.

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

26 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

?

No idea why you’ve quoted those two comments. They don’t have anything to do with my previous post, nor are they contradictory. 

[bing181 9,231]

36 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Hogan has not had a good year though

Dave Misson's fault.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

5 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

No idea why you’ve quoted those two comments. They don’t have anything to do with my previous post, nor are they contradictory. 

Just think that claiming McDonald and Weideman are the "two players with the most pressure on them in the league" does somewhat contradict you saying that you understand they are not solely responsible for our performance this year.

 

[praha 11,240]

39 minutes ago, Demonland said:

These stats tell me is that things would not have transpired differently in 2019 had we kept Hogan.

Of course not. He'd be on the injured list.

[praha 11,240]

35 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I reckon Weideman isn't far away from a break out 4 goal game.

Had he nailed his last set shot V's Collingwood he would've had a nice 3 goal performance against Darcy Moore who's clearly one of the premier key defenders in the league.

Slowly but surely he's getting there.

He's already had his breakout game. 

Like most of his teammates he's just had an average start to the season. But he stepped up in finals. That gives him runs on the board. 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

These stats tell me is that things would not have transpired differently in 2019 had we kept Hogan.

You can’t say that though with any degree of certainty. Different team mates, different home ground, different coach, different mindset. Too many variables in that lot to conclude that Hogan wouldn’t have had a decent 2019 if he’d stayed in red and blue. Who knows, even if he’d had just 2 or 3 big games out of 12 that we haven’t got from either of Weid and TMac, there’s potentially another 8 - 12 premiership points and you’re still in the finals hunt heading into the back half of the season, with key players returning. 

I’m not arguing this because I think Hogan should’ve stayed. I believed he was gone halfway through 2018, just to point out the flaws in the idea that “Hogan wouldn’t have made a difference anyway.” 

Given his ability to kick 50+ goals in multiple seasons, that’s more unlikely than likely.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Matsuo Basho

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Just think that claiming McDonald and Weideman are the "two players with the most pressure on them in the league" does somewhat contradict you saying that you understand they are not solely responsible for our performance this year.

 

It doesn’t contradict it at all. You are extrapolating from the sentence “two players with the most pressure on them in the league” a meaning that doesn’t exist. Two players having ‘the most’ pressure on them says nothing about the degree of pressure on every other player in the team, other than the fact that it will not be as great as those two.

And what does ‘somewhat contradict’ even mean? There is either a contradiction or there isn’t. The opposite would be to say that there is ‘virtually no contradiction’, which is similarly meaningless because it employs the arbitrary adverb ‘virtually’. 

Anyhoo - Weid and TMac have both been scheizenhausen in 2019 and that’s that!

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Two players having ‘the most’ pressure on them says nothing about the degree of pressure on every other player in the team

Errrrr....

 

[ManDee 7,142]

26 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

You can’t say that though with any degree of certainty. Different team mates, different home ground, different coach, different mindset. Too many variables in that lot to conclude that Hogan wouldn’t have had a decent 2019 if he’d stayed in red and blue. Who knows, even if he’d had just 2 or 3 big games out of 12 that we haven’t got from either of Weid and TMac, there’s potentially another 8 - 12 premiership points and you’re still in the finals hunt heading into the back half of the season, with key players returning. 

Im not arguing this because I think Hogan should’ve stayed. I believed he was gone halfway through 2018, just to point out flaws in the idea that “Hogan wouldn’t have made a difference anyway.” 

Given his ability to kick 50+ goals in multiple seasons, it’s that’s more unlikely than likely.

There you go again, what a beat up.

Many players have the ability to kick 50+ in multiple seasons but not many do. Hogan has never kicked 50+ in a season, Tommy Mac has. We know Hogan has potential, lots of players show potential, not many reach it.

 

Edit: I don't know what this means.---it’s that’s more unlikely than likely.

Edited June 21, 2019 by ManDee

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

7 minutes ago, ManDee said:

There you go again, what a beat up.

Many players have the ability to kick 50+ in multiple seasons but not many do. Hogan has never kicked 50+ in a season, Tommy Mac has. We know Hogan has potential, lots of players show potential, not many reach it.

 

Edit: I don't know what this means.---it’s that’s more unlikely than likely.

Please read the entirety of my posts rather than try, like LordNev, to cherry pick sentences out of them, then inaccurately twist their meaning.

Strange how posters keep attacking me while ignoring the fact that we’ve got the worst two performing key forwards in the AFL competition. Why so sensitive? I’m just stating the obvious. 

[ManDee 7,142]

2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Please read the entirety of my posts rather than try, like LordNev, to cherry pick sentences out of them, then inaccurately twist their meaning.

Strange how posters keep attacking me while ignoring the fact that we’ve got the worst two performing key forwards in the AFL competition. Why so sensitive? I’m just stating the obvious. 

Much of what you say makes sense, then you go and say something that doesn't. That is why I picked the part that did not make sense.

You could attempt to clarify or you could do what you do and obfuscate.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Please read the entirety of my posts rather than try, like LordNev, to cherry pick sentences out of them

 

31 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

And what does ‘somewhat contradict’ even mean? There is either a contradiction or there isn’t. The opposite would be to say that there is ‘virtually no contradiction’, which is similarly meaningless because it employs the arbitrary adverb ‘virtually’.

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

 

 

Thanks for re-posting my posts LN. I know they’re good but let’s give others a chance to shine ?

[M_9 2,082]

I'm hoping there won't be any booing of Hogan. The morons that boo Ablett et al are just that - morons. 

[Cards13 9,117]

7 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I'm hoping there won't be any booing of Hogan. The morons that boo Ablett et al are just that - morons. 

I’m actually really looking forward to seeing Jesse play.