I think the majority of Dees fans recognize we have weaknesses in midfield skill, outside run/pace and delivery forward, as well as us being in our 'window' as of now. I get that there's other areas we may debate with each other about, but I feel those things are pretty clear. So how do we improve those areas quickly enough that we can make the most of our chances now? This article raises a hypothetical that I scoffed at at first but have wavered a bit since thinking about it more.

Why trading Angus Brayshaw could fix Melbourne's midfield

"But Brayshaw personifies Melbourne's midfield issues - fantastic in the contest, tough as old boots and able to find the pill, but unreliable by foot. He has committed the 11th most turnovers in the league this year, with his disposal efficiency under implied pressure and physical pressure the second-worst and fourth-worst of the league's top 50 ball-winners."

It goes on to suggest trade scenarios which would see us losing Gus, and possibly a pick, to return Lachie Whitfield.

My questions are these:

- Is Gus 'untouchable' given we have Oliver, Harmes & Viney in the same role? Plus, with Sparrow and Dunkley potentially coming through in the same vein, others as depth etc.

- What do we make of Gus' massive form slump this year? You could argue it coincides with him attending less centre bounces, but there's other aspects to that as well such as his concussion history, his lack of accountability this year and of course, our lack of outside run which sees him being used there. Is he injured this year? Unhappy? Something seems up with him.

- Do we need to make such a big move or do we rely purely on tweaks to game plans, roles and structures in the offseason? I guess that boils down to trust in the footy department to fix things, which I imagine is at a low point given our performance this year.

Thoughts?

Similar thoughts here. For mine it all comes down to trading up and many of us do not have confidence in our club to do that. I too have confidence Dunkley, Sparrow and others can come into the midfield  and perform especially so with Gawny giving them a one in a decade ride to rack up possessions.

Viney should go before Brayshaw...

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Viney should go before Brayshaw...

I agree to be honest. I'm equal parts fan and critic of Viney, and have been a bit of a broken record about him being rated the worst user inside 50 in the entire comp, but I couldn't see the club trading him.

 

Plan A: Trade Brayshaw if the value is high enough, particularly if we can find or develop another high quality on baller plus fill the gaps in our side in terms of outside run and class.

Plan B: Hope that with a good preseason Gus, Viney, Oliver, Harmes and Petracca plus the rest of the side are all fitter and thus finding more space to run in, able to effectively rotate through the forward line and make decision making and skills easier.

I'm more than open to trading Brayshaw but it has to be for good value. Selling him cheaply due to a poor season won't help us.

I dislike his defensive efforts away from the contest and his ball use as much as anyone. Even last year I was critical of him. But there's still a lot to work with.

Just now, Lord Nev said:

I agree to be honest. I'm equal parts fan and critic of Viney, and have been a bit of a broken record about him being rated the worst user inside 50 in the entire comp, but I couldn't see the club trading him.

 

Club sentiment should be ignored this year. 

Our Leadership has been awful

No to trading Angus. Kicking can be fixed more easily than being able to find the pill.

Nah.

I could argue the point, I even typed it out, but now I've deleted because it is just going to end up being one of those odious back-and-forth threads where gradually people become more irritated and actually pump up their original soft opinions into more extreme versions just to annoy the other person who is annoying them.

So just, nah. Brayshaw good. Better value than what we'd get in a trade. Our inside midfield is not actually that deep, either, so not an area we should talk about trading quality players out of.

15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I agree to be honest. I'm equal parts fan and critic of Viney, and have been a bit of a broken record about him being rated the worst user inside 50 in the entire comp, but I couldn't see the club trading him.

 

No club will chase after Viney with his injury history either. 

I also think Viney has far better defensive efforts and ability to break from the contest than Gus. If we want more skill then Viney is equal or worse than Brayshaw, but if we want more two way run and pressure then Gus is the one to go. As seen by the coaches shifting him to the wing this year.

Edited June 18, 20195 yr by DeeSpencer

Can't agree at all!

Top player, courageous, and popular with team-mates.

Get his brother when his contract is up.

Edited June 18, 20195 yr by Jumping Jack Clennett
typo

4 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Nah.

I could argue the point, I even typed it out, but now I've deleted because it is just going to end up being one of those odious back-and-forth threads where gradually people become more irritated and actually pump up their original soft opinions into more extreme versions just to annoy the other person who is annoying them

I did that too! I just cant be bothered anymore. Said it a few months ago that we need to put together the value that can net us a Whitfield type player and will need to trade one of our good players. I don't care how it's done and i don't really want to debate whether it should be Brayshaw or whoever either. Footy isn't worth stressing over currently.

Edited June 18, 20195 yr by John Demonic

 2018 Brownlow Medal full leaderboard

Place	Player	Club	Votes
1	Tom Mitchell	HAW	28
2	Steele Sidebottom	COL	24
3	Angus Brayshaw	MEL	21
4	Patrick Cripps	CAR	20
4	Max Gawn	MEL	20

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

No club will chase after Viney with his injury history either. 

I also think Viney has far better defensive efforts and ability to break from the contest than Gus. If we want more skill than Viney is equal or worse than Brayshaw, but if we want more two way run and pressure then Gus is the one to go. As seen by the coaches shifting him to the wing this year.

Yep, spot on and summed up really well. It's part of what made me waver about the trade scenario, having Oliver, Viney and Harmes still there, possibly along with Petracca after a full preseason, a gun outside mid of the likes of Whitfield could dramatically change us.

 

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

 2018 Brownlow Medal full leaderboard

Place	Player	Club	Votes
1	Tom Mitchell	HAW	28
2	Steele Sidebottom	COL	24
3	Angus Brayshaw	MEL	21
4	Patrick Cripps	CAR	20
4	Max Gawn	MEL	20

Name me one person outside the umpires who thinks that was a reasonable result, or probably didn't laugh that Gus was ahead of Oliver. Completely irrelevant.

What is relevant is Brayshaw this year is playing like a future Dom Tyson. 

If another team offers up value for him we either say yes or have a plan that involves better training methods and a new head of fitness vastly improving him.

4 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

 2018 Brownlow Medal full leaderboard

Place	Player	Club	Votes
1	Tom Mitchell	HAW	28
2	Steele Sidebottom	COL	24
3	Angus Brayshaw	MEL	21
4	Patrick Cripps	CAR	20
4	Max Gawn	MEL	20

Though this could be used to argue for OR against a trade. For being that elite level is the only value that could bring in a Whitfield type player.

Edited June 18, 20195 yr by John Demonic

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

 2018 Brownlow Medal full leaderboard

Place	Player	Club	Votes
1	Tom Mitchell	HAW	28
2	Steele Sidebottom	COL	24
3	Angus Brayshaw	MEL	21
4	Patrick Cripps	CAR	20
4	Max Gawn	MEL	20

Yep, and that's why he has good trade value despite an extremely poor 2019.

The suggestion isn't we trade him because he's not good enough, the suggestion is we trade him because he has high value and we could use that value to better balance our team and address the needs that see us currently sitting at 16th on the ladder.

So, I counter that 'alternate scoreboard', with this one:

 

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep, and that's why he has good trade value despite an extremely poor 2019.

The suggestion isn't we trade him because he's not good enough, the suggestion is we trade him because he has high value and we could use that value to better balance our team and address the needs that see us currently sitting at 16th on the ladder.

So, I counter that 'alternate scoreboard', with this one:

 

If Gus was Top 10 last year I would agree, but Top 3 means he is a keeper...

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If Gus was Top 10 last year I would agree, but Top 3 means he is a keeper...

None of this explains why Gus has not spent more time in the middle this year to carry on why he left off. Happy to hear why.

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If Gus was Top 10 last year I would agree, but Top 3 means he is a keeper...

Fair enough mate. Personally I'm not too concerned about votes allocated by umpires, I'm more into having a team that will win a flag. I would have Gawn, Oliver, Jetta and Melksham as my untouchables, even though none were top 3 in the Brownlow.

 

i've been hypercritical of gus for a while now, primarily cos his ball usage and his defensive efforts are less than ideal for a player of his undoubted ability

it's the same as dom tyson at the moment - he's a good inside midfielder but he can't play any other role, which limits his flexibility and the approach that we can take to using him in a different role as required

i'm not certain that trading him would be the ideal scenario as he, ideally, simply replaces the role that jones plays once he retires at the end of 2020 as a plug-n-play certain first-start mid rotation

to lose dom, gus, and jones (presuming the latter retires at the end of 2020) in three consecutive years would reduce our option of inside mid stocks significantly over a three year period

if he was to go, you'd want it to be for something quite valuable, and i'm not sure gus brayshaw = ben brown plus north's second rounder is a fair deal, but it's what i'd want, at a minimum

Like the serious thinking cap stuff of the OP but I believe a better case can be made to trade Petracca.

In fact I started a thread about just that a couple of months ago but it was shut down by critics and eventually locked and buried by a mod.

Hopefully more scope is given to discuss trade possibilities now that the picture of our list concerns has become clearer.

Have a think about the player who would have the biggest value on the trade market and is possibly the one we could most do without.

The answer I suggest is not popular but no one is untouchable these days.

On Brayshaw I think like most of our mids he has more value to us than what we could get as trade.

Just now, Matsuo Basho said:

Like the serious thinking cap stuff of the OP but I believe a better case can be made to trade Petracca.

In fact I started a thread about just that a couple of months ago but it was shut down by critics and eventually locked and buried by a mod.

Hopefully more scope is given to discuss trade possibilities now that the picture of our list concerns has become clearer.

Can see where you're coming from, but I agree with the article in the initial post when it says: "Trading Petracca now would be a classic case of 'selling low'." We just wouldn't get value for him at the moment, so to me his potential is worth more to us than what we would get in return for trading him.

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Fair enough mate. Personally I'm not too concerned about votes allocated by umpires, I'm more into having a team that will win a flag. I would have Gawn, Oliver, Jetta and Melksham as my untouchables, even though none were top 3 in the Brownlow.

 

Not disputing any of those players mate. 

Viney is very overrated and is a very average Captain so i would lose no sleep if he was traded. 

If Brayshaw goes i would be in a very mean mood...!

15 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

None of this explains why Gus has not spent more time in the middle this year to carry on why he left off. Happy to hear why.

Different Discussion. I can’t answer it tbh