4 hours ago, R.I.P. Troy said:

I do like your bold thinking, and it could work.

But unfortunately risk doesn't always = reward. Expecially not for MFC.

your right,  'ript'.

 

Melbourne were right in not going after the Olympic Swimming Centre... Dylan Shiel, De Goey,  Martin, Sheedy, et al, etc.

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

your right,  'ript'.

 

Melbourne were right in not going after the Olympic Swimming Centre... Dylan Shiel, De Goey,  Martin, Sheedy, et al, etc.

Right on DV8. 

Risk aversion and conservatism. Look no further for the cultural underpinnings of no flag in 55 years.

16 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

The number of Demonlanders who think they’ve got Al Clarkson covered in assessing recruiting prospects is truly impressive. Those Hawthorn know-nothings and their track record of abject failure! 

I would go after Patton... but not with Tracca,  I think a better deal is required.   Maybe a 2nd Rnd pick for Patton.

I'd want something more for Tracca.   Play him on the wing in the reserves and get him working harder... more urgency required, and to go on a diet.   Lose 5 Kgs. 

He should be around 92 Kgs, imv.   Get him running around the field instead, of loping about. 

 

If he loses 5Kgs and doesn't shine,  at least there will be more interest from outside the club for him.

24 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

The number of Demonlanders who think they’ve got Al Clarkson covered in assessing recruiting prospects is truly impressive. Those Hawthorn know-nothings and their track record of abject failure! 

But taking it to the other extreme is not helpful either. Clarko chasing him, therefore he must be worth getting? It's completely needs based. Hawthorn only have Roughhead who'll retire, they could be desperate to give cap space to anyone. Need people be reminded of Vickery...

 

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by John Demonic

4 hours ago, No10 said:

This must be the real question.

The only players to have markedly improved under Goody are players that fit his team game style (whatever that is) - like ANB who can make numbers around the ball.

Roos gave the players roles based on their attributes and those players rose up.

Harmes is maybe the only player Goody gave a signature role - and he shone.

I hope he can pull it together. But the fact there isn’t a great deal of exciting player development with a list of extreme talent... this has to be the big question

TMc, Hannan, Spargo in his first year as an 18Yr old.   Pederson, Jetta, Salem, Gawn,

It seems to me that the players who have come on,  are the ones who have done their time in the reserves, first.

Those who have done SFA in the 2nds,  seems to get stale.

24 minutes ago, DV8 said:

And goes to ground too often in the forwardline.   He is slow to get back up.   He fades away off the back of contests,  and then walks watching it.

He's a lazy player,  who gets his thrills from just being in the seniors.   No ambition,  other than being in the limelight.

Agree DV8. Can you remember Christian ever smothering a footy in desperation or laying a sequence of bone crunching tackles? Where is the sprinting to contest after contest? Where are the second, third and fourth efforts? That’s when you should be hanging your tongue out, physically spent and gagging for oxygen. Not when you’ve just kicked a flashy goal off the back of others’ hard work. 

Petracca is a downhill skier - the biggest on the list - in need of a major attitude readjustment. Let him be another club’s problem.

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by Matsuo Basho

4 hours ago, rjay said:

I would be prepared to trade anyone on the list with the exception of Oliver and Gawn.

The other exception is I no longer trust the current football bosses to get the right deal.

If we had a proven, experienced football manager in charge of the deal then almost anything is on the table...

Including nothing if they think that is the right thing.

What concerns me is that we were happy to give away  Two 1st Rnd picks,  for a player who already had a knee Reco as a kid.

We payed too highly imv,...

 

The thinking must have been our list is very close to finished...  it was not.  

The over-optimism with regard to "the state of the list"...    This misjudgement is what concerns me the most.

 

This is a perrenial Melbourne problem,  of overestimating the worth.  It even afflicts outside coaches, once they have been under our Umbrella, for a little while.

 

We get too Optimistic too quickly,  which impacts the perception of footy dept people...   and we also get too Pessimistic too quickly...  which makes personnel switch us off,  and disregard us all.

So then our thoughts and feelings are lost on the club.

 

The Disconnect arrives.

.  

4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

you would get a second rounder for him on present form. The upside is way better.

The challenge is for the coaching staff to get the best from him. They have failed to do so with every early round pick that we have had since Travis Johnstone. Different coaches and staff etc but same problem

We don't make them do their time,  and earn their reward the hard way. 

We spoil our high-hope picks...  and we are doing it all over again, now with May...  in little ways,  by fawning over him prior to him showing what he's got.

 

What did we do with Watts.   What have we done with Tracca.   What did we do with Toump.

IMV, we are doing the right thing, so far  with Stretch.   Whether he'll be good enough or not,  will be seen...  but he will Respect with high regard,  playing in the Demons jumper in the AFL..

Gawn played plenty in the ressies.  OMc has not.

 

Tracca,  how many VFL games has he played ???  Can anyone tell me?

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by DV8

41 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Agree DV8. Can you remember Christian ever smothering a footy in desperation or laying a sequence of bone crunching tackles? Where is the sprinting to contest after contest? Where are the second, third and fourth efforts? That’s when you should be hanging your tongue out, physically spent and gagging for oxygen. Not when you’ve just kicked a flashy goal off the back of others’ hard work. 

Petracca is a downhill skier - the biggest on the list - in need of a major attitude readjustment. Let him be another club’s problem.

There isn't any.

And when he decides to go after a contest,  he goes to ground too easily.  

 

It's a bit like an immature,  spoilt AFL attitude...   and that is the Mfc's fault.....  all of US...  for spoiling those kids whom we adore.

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by DV8

6 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Yes, we’ve got such a great history of trading. Let him join the likes of Howe, Dunn, Hogan, Kent, Watts etc. No problem.

Similarly have a good history of persisting when perhaps some pragmatic and hard nosed evaluation might be needed

5 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Clean hands?? We must watch footy in parallel universes because I see a guy who panics and fumbles more often than not. And how about that terrible hand to foot ball drop in his kick action that makes him a 30% proposition from 40m directly in front? 

I usually rate your player assessments TGR but like others in the footy media you chronically overrate CP5. He ‘ain’t that good.

MB you make me laugh so hard that I'm  crying right now Stop dreaming and wake up from your nightmare ! Petracca is needed.   We will end up with a 1st round pick no Doubt.

Constructive thinking you don't have.  What is next !!!!!     

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by nosoupforme

Yes

38 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

But taking it to the other extreme is not helpful either. Clarko chasing him, therefore he must be worth getting? It's completely needs based. Hawthorn only have Roughhead who'll retire, they could be desperate to give cap space to anyone. Need people be reminded of Vickery...

 

Look we need versatility for our forwardline,  and for 2nd rucks.   Weide is too small to be a genuine, 2nd ruck.  He also needs a foil up forward,  and one who is Taller and mobile.

Preuss'y is more a backup 1st ruck,  for when Gawn is hurt, or tired

Preuss can pinch-hit as a forward... but his fitness imv,  is always going to be an issue for him.

After Preuss,  we have little to share ruck or forward play.   We are too thin in this regard.

 

What IF Weide was injured... we would be a shizen creek. 

We see what happens when one gets hurt,  in TMc,  who is well off the pace.  This impacts our whole forwardline function and confidence.

4 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

MB you make me laugh so hard that I'm  crying right now Stop dreaming and wake up from your nightmare ! Constructive thinking you don't have.  What is next !!!!!

Tracca does have good hands...  when he's on.  Inside the midfield,  where he should be playing.

 

The guy is nowhere near aerobically fit enough,  for AFL.

6 hours ago, R.I.P. Troy said:

I would have zero faith in our recruiters drafting a player better than Petracca with picks 10-20. Not that I rate Petracca terribly highly, just no faith and too risky. Better the devil you know.

On that basis Troy are you suggesting we would be better of trading out our recruiting team rather than Tracc ??

So, any player not playing well at the moment needs to go? Won't have a team left if that's the criteria. Something has happened to everyone's confidence down there. Methinks this is another Watts situation. Everyone is going to have their own opinion and stick to it, come hell or high water. Both seem to be happening to the club right now. Hell and high water. Petracca to stay, seeing how everyone else is down on form as well. He is not alone.

6 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

no guarantee on that

we are currently playing with our 'best available' midfield and we are being routinely thrashed for contested footy

No we aren't our inside coal face is still fine at extracting the pill.  Ranked 2nd in the league just behind Port and only averaging 3.8 contested possessions less than last season's averages (ranked No.1).

Not sure where people are getting this impression from.

All our woes are on the outside spread and run (lack of off HB and through the middle, outside of Frosty who is dodgy with his finish) AND our horrible disposal skills in general INCLUDING most of the guys running through the mid field.

We are getting smashed with the loose ball on the run and spread, uncontested dropping from 9th position in 2018 to last.  Is this a result of poor set ups at stoppages and too many see ball get ball mids all going at the pill at once not sitting off minding their opponent on the inside or calling for the clearance?  More than likely.  Some of the stoppage set ups and play are rubbish with no outside coverage.  The opp just knocks it loose and they're off with a quick runner playing loose on the periphery.  Poor set ups = poor coaching?  Or just poor mid field I.Q. generally with an inability to learn on the run or leaders not leading?

Turnovers (disposal skills when we are getting the ball back) the 2nd worst in the AFL compared to last year sitting 9 rungs better at 11th.

Some teams can handle plenty of turnovers though as long as you punish your opponent more than they do when they turn it over.  With our method of delivery so horrid coming inside 50 and our completely dysfunctional out of form Key Talls (who aren't taking contested marks & no quality smallish crumbers) forward line, we are suffering allover mainly due to this massive mid field/forward disconnect/crappy finish/connection scenario.

We are where we are by the sum of all the above missing pieces, but contested isn't one of them.

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by Rusty Nails

I am really starting to doubt my eyes cos I don’t think Tracc has been anywhere near as bad as this place is suggesting. I feel like he is someone who, from limited chances, has tried to take the game on. I’d like to see more of it but he’s far from a problem.

Can someone also please explain to me the logic in trading Tracc for Patton? It feels like two sides of the same argument - one hasn’t delivered to expectation but has been injured and has potential, the other hasn’t delivered to hopes but...

Of course, too, were we to trade him (to Hawthorn), they’ll turn him into a Brownlow/Coleman/premiership player and we’ll get some Nuffy who ends up playing for the Bullamakankee 3rds a year later before being promptly dropped 

8 minutes ago, Radar Detector said:

I am really starting to doubt my eyes cos I don’t think Tracc has been anywhere near as bad as this place is suggesting. I feel like he is someone who, from limited chances, has tried to take the game on. I’d like to see more of it but he’s far from a problem.

Can someone also please explain to me the logic in trading Tracc for Patton? It feels like two sides of the same argument - one hasn’t delivered to expectation but has been injured and has potential, the other hasn’t delivered to hopes but...

Different types of player. Patton can be the Hogan replacement we need. Straighten up the side, bust packs, kick goals, make everyone in the forward arc walk taller. Watch Weid blossom with The General taking heat off him. 

Petracca is a ‘cream on top’ player and an overrated one at that. 

Patton makes us structurally a better side. Changes the whole complexion of the team. He’s a game changer. 

Which is why Clarkson has earmarked him as Roughead’s long term replacement.

Petracca out to facilitate Patton in is about putting us back into contention as early as next season. 

Anyone who thinks we can roll the dice again on the same forward structure is living in deep denial.

No way.

 

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

your right,  'ript'.

 

Melbourne were right in not going after the Olympic Swimming Centre... Dylan Shiel, De Goey,  Martin, Sheedy, et al, etc.

Point taken.

But I was responding to the idea of trading out Petracca for pick 10-20.

Which I believe is unnecessary risk.

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

Petracca for a bloke who has done his knee 3 times and has been an average player at best. 

This could be my last visit to this site after reading this. 

Im done!

Me too. There has been far too many [censored] who come on here and just talk trash just to get notice. 

When we are having a [censored] year they just swarm. We didn't see these nuffies last year in the back end of the year when we were having success.

Edited April 27, 20196 yr by dazzledavey36

7 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I think the problem is our player development- too many have not come on. 

Wiseblood why have so many ... Ostensibly failed to kick on at MFC? over many many years.

As many have alluded to ?

Why and how can so many clubs recruit, harness potential, deal with form swings and then develop players into absolute champions??

But we have hardly ever ever done this

Clayton Oliver is an exception but even Clarry Choo Choo seems to have plateaued out to an extent!

This has been almost an insurmountable problem!

What do other clubs do which we seem incapable of doing??

Developing talent!

This is a pressing problem! 

Not quick enough at this point to play at HF.  Bring him into the mid field now that Viney is out which might bring us a better slightly outside balance.

If we could snare Cameron with Tracc and maybe throw O-Mac and Weid plus a few picks I'd take it, but otherwise no.