1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

What I'm disappointed about is that the players also rejected the grueling 72 hour cello playing camp, knocked back a week of manual rice planting, and even refused to be pushed out of their comfort zone by not wearing sunscreen. SOFT!

Seriously, why are police even delivering programs with sleep deprivation as a component? There is never, ever a reason to inflict sleep deprivation on someone unless you actually need to test how they respond to sleep deprivation.

Sleep cycles are not something that just switch on and off and that kind of silly machismo stuff can leave players disrupted for weeks. We all know already that many AFL players have all kinds of trouble setting stable sleep during the season.

Training under sleep deprivation is as useful as getting them to train with the flu.

I'm with the players on this, the camp is a bad call, I just hope that no relationships have been damaged in the process of replacing it with actual football-related training.

How do you know that this year's camp was to include sleep deprivation? You don't 

Also the sleep deprivation wasn't one of main concerns from last year

This is now over and we should move on to the next calamitous event that will impact on the footy field

Did you know that a lot of playing group have golf games planned over the  xmas break, do we stop that in case one of the players rips a shoulder or does a  back

Edited December 16, 20177 yr by Satyriconhome

46 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

On last year, if you hire a professional outfit to run the camp you woukd assume all resources would be available, maybe this assumption was wrong and it was too late to pull out or organize when discovered 

 

...and that's the problem.

I might have been a bit colourful with the nut job comment but if we didn't do our due diligence on the resources we can't guarantee that the providers were professional operators &/or highly skilled either.

If they were surely they would have been better resourced.

You just don't put your most expensive asset in someone else hands.

It was a mistake, we move on.

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I've read every post, from both sides, in this thread and I still can't see what the fuss is all about.  If this was the third or fourth time this pre-season that we had heard about problems at training, players partying too hard etc. then I would be worried.

But we've been super quiet and the players have been committed to training and looking after themselves.  What more could we want?  The boot camp was a mis-step, but a very minor one.  If that's the only negative we see from our pre-season then, in my book, it's a success.

Exactly, the players obviously felt any perceived benefits were outweighed by the potential for injuries and the deconditioning that would occur especially considering theyre on a break after this. Better to keep their conditioning and fitness base up to hit preseason hard on return in Jan. Storm in a tea cup.

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

My point was,and it wasn't  aimed at you in particular, was that if you haven't experienced 'boot camps' some of the comments are nonesense an example 'nut job commandos' which is derogatory towards a highly skilled group

I have experienced 'boot camps' in both military and civilian environments and found them of great benefit to me personally, so I wondered what the players concerns were

When I had the chance to ask Trac, I did, and now feel comfortable with the decision

This decision will have no impact on Goody's relationship or authority with the players and no impact on the field

On last year, if you hire a professional outfit to run the camp you woukd assume all resources would be available, maybe this assumption was wrong and it was too late to pull out or organize when discovered 

As for other teams supporters, ask them if they do requests, if they do, tell them you have a request that involves sex and travel?

So what was the reason for the players concerns and why couldn’t the club mitigate these issues. 

 

Where the concerns any of the following? 

 

1. They saw no benefit in the training, 

2. There was no/ not enough medical/support support staff in attendance, 

3. There was no FD consultation/oversight in the activity which allowed the third party contractor to overstep the boundaries,

4. The activities was on the day prior to Christmas leave and they would need to commit to recovery during their personal leave time,

5. The training was not football related thus not in their job discription. 

 

The answers to these questions determine if there are issues within the club. If the players wanted a doctor in attendance for the full 72hrs due to concerns with medical safety after last year and the club couldn’t organise this then I completely understand the cancelling of the event. Some other reason would have me concerned on who is setting the direction in the club. 

16 minutes ago, Wolfgang219 said:

So what was the reason for the players concerns and why couldn’t the club mitigate these issues. 

 

Where the concerns any of the following? 

 

1. They saw no benefit in the training, 

2. There was no/ not enough medical/support support staff in attendance, 

3. There was no FD consultation/oversight in the activity which allowed the third party contractor to overstep the boundaries,

4. The activities was on the day prior to Christmas leave and they would need to commit to recovery during their personal leave time,

5. The training was not football related thus not in their job discription. 

 

The answers to these questions determine if there are issues within the club. If the players wanted a doctor in attendance for the full 72hrs due to concerns with medical safety after last year and the club couldn’t organise this then I completely understand the cancelling of the event. Some other reason would have me concerned on who is setting the direction in the club. 

There are no issues within the club, the players had concerns they were raised, listened to and actioned

As far as I can ascertain the main issue is about conditioning, a perfectly valid concern from professional athletes

Maybe Goody wasn't overjoyed with the decision, but he has control

If you think the players were worried about the impact on their personal leave, will let some like Gus Brayshaw know you are interested in joining in on their Christmas Day exercise regime

This, like the Jack Watts trade is done and dusted move on

Quit telling people to ‘move on’ Saty, posters are entitled to their own opinion, no matter how much you disagree with it. Personally I enjoy reading the different opinions and view points.

8 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Quit telling people to ‘move on’ Saty, posters are entitled to their own opinion, no matter how much you disagree with it. Personally I enjoy reading the different opinions and view points.

They are entitled to an opinion, but I dont think there is much more to add, unless you like the same opinion being repeated 15 different ways

15 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

There are no issues within the club, the players had concerns they were raised, listened to and actioned

It’s easy to follow the club PR line if you don’t live in the real world or want to escape criticism. 

 

From another poster the timeline was the following;

1. camp was announced on Monday, 

2. Players announced their concerns, 

3. Players were formally briefed by coach/FD on Thursday, 

4. Players seek out ALFPA for guidanc on how to reraise Concerns, 

5. Meeting with FD, leadership group, ALFPA, 

6. Camp cancelled. 

 

What at we can ascertain is that the players had their concerns raised and the club provided assurances etc.

The coach/FD wanted the camp to continue, you would assume that the conditioning staff are consulted prior to the camp being organised. 

The club did not appease the players concerns which you believe was over a loss of conditioning. 

The players were involved the union. 

 

I made an error in the timeline as the players approached the ALFPA directly and the club responded with briefings 

 

From Drunken two days ago 

 

“Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation. The MFC staff caught wind of this, so Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff and ensure players were well fed (apparently the food/nutrition last year wasn't the best) Even after this talk, still quite a high number of players were very unhappy about having to do the course again.

So over the weekend the Leadership group and AFLPA met with MFC Coaches/high level staff to discuss the situation, reportedly getting quite feisty at times. The club did have the official final say on the matter, and chose to call the camp off. Monday morning Goodwin gathered all the players and told them the camp was being called off due to the high number of players who raised concerns with it, and he said he wasn't angry but very disappointed because he felt they had given enough information to the players that their health and safety concerns were going to be handled appropriately. However throughout the day the players could tell Goodwin and some other coaches were indeed pretty unhappy with the playing group (when you work with people for long enough you can tell pretty clearly when they are not in the best mood) “

 

So the club addresses the health and safety issues and increased the medical staff etc but the players weren’t happy 

 

 

IF the players were asked to 100 x 100 but believed they received no benefit after 80 and can get injured in the last 20 because of muscle fatigue do they have the right to overall the coach, FD and conditioning staff with their beliefs???

 

Who makes the decision on benefits given the expertise hired in the football department (including conditioning staff). 

 

Whilst most n DL will poo-poo this scenario as ‘100x 100’ is known to be achievable and a ‘boot camp’ is extreme training where is the line drawn?? Who controls the decision, the playing group or the coaching group? 

 

Those saying this a nothing event really don’t understanding that the playing group is made up of 40 individuals and then there is 20 something in the football department. There will be difference in opinions and friction but these events are usually resolved through communication. This was attempted in this incident and thus there is now a dynamic in the football  group about who has control. 

 

This wont be resolved in the public and you have to be inside the 65 football group to know exactly how it plays out. 

Edited December 16, 20177 yr by Wolfgang219

1 hour ago, Wolfgang219 said:

IF the players were asked to 100 x 100 but believed they received no benefit after 80 and can get injured in the last 20 because of muscle fatigue do they have the right to overall the coach, FD and conditioning staff with their beliefs???

 

Who makes the decision on benefits given the expertise hired in the football department (including conditioning staff). 

 

Whilst most n DL will poo-poo this scenario as ‘100x 100’ is known to be achievable and a ‘boot camp’ is extreme training where is the line drawn?? Who controls the decision, the playing group or the coaching group? 

 

Those saying this a nothing event really don’t understanding that the playing group is made up of 40 individuals and then there is 20 something in the football department. There will be difference in opinions and friction but these events are usually resolved through communication. This was attempted in this incident and thus there is now a dynamic in the football  group about who has control. 

 

This wont be resolved in the public and you have to be inside the 65 football group to know exactly how it plays out. 

And since no one on this site (to my limited knowledge) is one of the 65, can anyone cast a stone, one way or another? 

I love banter and diversity of opinion, but to be useful, it has to be founded on fact. No one here has any real idea of the issues. 

We can speculate and posture personal opinion on who runs the show the players or the FD but there will be no right or wrong in this place. 

As a newbie on this site, having withdrawn from another, the self serving and highly opinionated views here seem more like school ground antics than a fan based forum. 

Let's see how this plays out in the real world shall we. 

I expect Goodwin and co will wrest control pretty quickly, for better or worse, unity or division. 

 

Edited December 16, 20177 yr by Hot as Hell

The truth of the matter is probably halfway between the coaches position & the players position but my concern is for the clubs brand. The playing group will be branded as soft for the rest of the season and the question mark over their mental fragility will be larger for mine. Would not be at all surprised to see that same mental brittleness when the real deal begins in March. 

1 hour ago, Hot as Hell said:

And since no one on this site (to my limited knowledge) is one of the 65, can anyone cast a stone, one way or another? 

I love banter and diversity of opinion, but to be useful, it has to be founded on fact. No one here has any real idea of the issues. 

We can speculate and posture personal opinion on who runs the show the players or the FD but there will be no right or wrong in this place. 

As a newbie on this site, having withdrawn from another, the self serving and highly opinionated views here seem more like school ground antics than a fan based forum. 

Let's see how this plays out in the real world shall we. 

I expect Goodwin and co will wrest control pretty quickly, for better or worse, unity or division. 

 

For what it's worth, I don't think Goodwin has lost control at all.  Getting feedback around the camp and acting on their concerns is what any normal person would do in the situation.  Goody might be disappointed but he'll move on quickly, as will the players.

If this mob aren't bonded together with super glue after last year's coc# ups including the Coaching staff's then they will never be........

On 16/12/2017 at 10:28 AM, Ethan Tremblay said:

Plenty of players get injured during training sessions as well. Let’s cancel them then. 

Maybe just the ones that involve carrying bricks in a backpack...

 

 

Heard a few laughs coming out of my radio this morning on this topic. 

 

Goodwin better work these guys real hard on the track this week

Real Hard...

Still a bunch of overpaid sooks. Why they have no ticker.

Do people really care what radio commentators or opposition supporters say? Who gives a stuff, no one will remember in a month.

16 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do people really care what radio commentators or opposition supporters say? Who gives a stuff, no one will remember in a month.

If we choke again near September in 2018, good luck with hoping people will forget this one. 

Finish Top 4 and win some finals and it will become forgotten....

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If we choke again near September in 2018, good luck with hoping people will forget this one. 

Finish Top 4 and win some finals and it will become forgotten....

One thing is for sure, no club has won a premiership after going through minor distractions in the pre-christmas training block.

9 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

One thing is for sure, no club has won a premiership after going through minor distractions in the pre-christmas training block.

Goodwin has a big job now. I always thought he had, but it is even bigger now. 

His strategy has been rebuked by the playing list, the same list that choked a finals berth last season. 

Only The MFC could do this...

4 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Still a bunch of overpaid sooks. Why they have no ticker.

Said by a poster hiding in anonymity 

The players are soft? We have posters worried/concerned/upset about what opposition supporters or commentators think   now that is soft

17 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin has a big job now. I always thought he had, but it is even bigger now. 

His strategy has been rebuked by the playing list, the same list that choked a finals berth last season. 

Only The MFC could do this...

I disagree totally that this is a MFC issue. 

Every club has its own issues and they always have. The Cats had hand bags the Toiges ate their own etc etc. 

A training program that clearly had serious player welfare deficiencies last year has been been abandoned as a result of a lack of support from the playing group and recognition by the FD. 

The players are no less tough and the FD no less demanding. These guys all have a common goal and they know what it us. 

For outsiders including the mainstream media, social media and posters here, it is easy to focus on the decision and lose sight of the Club's resolve. 

I refuse to accept any superficial criticism of the players, the coaches or the footy dept will have any impact on our performance next year. 

In the end, it is performance that writes history. The rest is noise that so easily distracts the restless mob.

 

Bored

Bored

Bored

Need to get through stupid cricket and crap tennis before anything gets serious

I think I'll focus on me Xmas pud

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin has a big job now. I always thought he had, but it is even bigger now. 

His strategy has been rebuked by the playing list, the same list that choked a finals berth last season. 

Only The MFC could do this...

Seriously?  Honestly SWYL, I've never seen someone make such a mountain out of a mole hill.

His strategy has been rebuked?  It was a 2 day boot camp.  Have they rebelled against the 99% of the other training they do?  Have they cracked it over the gameplan?  Did they kick up a fuss about what they needed to do before they returned to training, or what they will do over the Xmas break?

No, they didn't.  They just felt the boot camp wasn't worthwhile, so it was cancelled.

I'll say it again, you LOVE this stuff.  I bet you sit there and rub your hands together at how hard you can go with it.  It's like Xmas has come early for you.